Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alienfreak 06-05-06, 12:01 PM	I plan to make an 11th level Moon Elf Rogue/Wizard, which has wings. I would go for 5 Wiz/3 Rog/3 ArcT, but looking at the class it is not really good for an prestige class for which you have to 8th level to join. It has d4 HP, 4+ Int Skillpoints, Wiz Bab and not too good special abilities, especially considering you already have lost 3 caster levels (practiced spellcaster may help, but it doesnt bring back the higher grade and the slots) due to the 3 rogue levels you need. But i dont really remember another class which could fit the build well and which is better than the Arcane Trickser. Probably someone else happens to remember a class suitable?
NineInchNall 06-05-06, 12:16 PM	You could go Daggerspell Mage. Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Daggerspell Mage 5. (Assuming the favored class for moon elves is either Rogue or Wizard.) You'd get sneak attack, one off of full spellcasting advancement, and some nice, entertaining abilities.
Piraatje 06-05-06, 02:57 PM	Arcane Trickster is good for 2 things: getting full sneak attack and casting, and getting the awesome rogue list on your int-powered skillpoint hoard. So eh, what else is it that you're looking for in your rogue-wizard?
Slyver 06-05-06, 06:59 PM	Daggerspell Mage is great, if you're human. Everything about it screams awesome rogue/wizard. Medium BAB, 6 skill points/level, Great special abilities, d6 hd if i remember correctly, easy entry, decent SA progression. What it lacks is skill list. It is unfortunate and a pet peeve of mine that able learner is human only. Makes no sense to me from a balance perspective, but there it is. If your DM will allow you to use it with Moon Elf then great. Use it and make a good rogue/wizard. If not, human is pretty much the best way to go. What follows is a build I made long ago. It may could use some revision with new feats. I haven't the time atm to do so. It is human, as it must be. 1 rogue able learner, two weapon fighing 2 human paragon 3 wizard weapon focus (dagger) 4 human paragon practiced spellcaster 5 human paragon (+2 int) 6 wizard weaopon finesse 7 daggerpell mage 8 daggerpell mage 9 daggerpell mage Acane strike (optional) 10 daggerpell mage 11 daggerpell mage 12 daggerpell mage improved two weapon fighting 13 daggerpell mage 14 daggerpell mage 15 daggerpell mage Craft contingency spell 16 daggerpell mage 17 arcane trickster 18 arcane trickster greater two weapon fighting 19 arcane trickster 20 arcane trickster An alternative entry into AT is Rogue 1/Spell theif 1 (or Guild thief 1)/Wiz 5. it gives you one caster level, but you lose evasion and bab. Its a trade off. Slyver
Kuroi Kenshi 06-05-06, 08:15 PM	Sylver's build is great. For an alternative, Mommy Was an Orc did a build without Human Paragon: Rogue3/Wizard1/Fighter1/Daggerspell Mage4/Spellsword1/Daggerspell Mage5-10/Arcane Trickster4 Lv1 - able learner, TWF Lv3 - practiced spellcaster Lv5 - WF: dagger after that - craven, feats towards fighting/spellcasting style of choice
Slyver 06-05-06, 11:55 PM	Sylver's build is great, though I would skip on Able Learner. Adaptive Learning (or whatever it's called) from Human Paragon1 gives you 10 or 20 skills of your choice as class skills. Adaptive learning allows you to pick any one skill that will always be a class skill. There are way too many skills a good rogue needs that are not on the daggerspell mages list. Able learner is mandatory to keep up with skills through 12-14 levels of poor skill list. Orc's build loses out on way too many caster levels imo (total of 5) and frankly, I don't see much benefit with the fighter/spellsword. I mean, it's not gimp, but it is not very optimized. Slyver
Kuroi Kenshi 06-06-06, 01:34 AM	Oops. Wow. For the longest time I confused its class skill layout with Adaptive Learning. Thanks for that correction. Well, Able Learner owns the hell out of that class skill, lol. I'll rescind what I said earlier. As for Orc's build you can just drop 2 rogue levels for 2 wizard and you're back at BAB12, CL17 - same as your build. I'm guessing he used Ftr/Spellsword for better armor, bolstering the otherwise terrible fortitude save, and getting into DSM at character level 6 rather than 7 (though you could do that with your build too). IIRC he said his build was meant as a rogue that so happens to be able to cast spells, has few weaknesses, and doesn't have any really tough levels from 1-20.
Alienfreak 06-06-06, 02:56 AM	Thanks in advance, i just came home and i will have a look at that daggerspell mage :)