Better Damage: big two-handed weapon or shield/large weapon TWF? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Better Damage: big two-handed weapon or shield/large weapon TWF? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shalamar420
09-01-04, 02:46 PM For a low to mid level fighter, I was just thinking about the possible damage output from two different styles one could have.

Who gets better consistent damage with say a 5th level fighter or some variant with:

A large category weapon (with monkey grip) or even just a good one handed weapon (dwarven waraxe for example) pulse a spiked large shield (and say the shield expert feat from Sword and Fist that allows shield attack and AC) used with two weapon fighting.

OR.....

A big ass weapon used two-handed to get the most out of the 1.5* strength damage.

I know the general consensus is that if you have a good fighter with very high strength, the two-handed weapon is better, but at lower levels with a good (but not uber good) strength, maybe the TWF could fare better?
Himo
09-01-04, 03:14 PM Two weapon fiighting will deal more damage in the mid-long term. But, I would advice you to either get a double weapon or the same light weapon in each hand, so feats like weapon specialization, weapon focus, improved critical and such work for both hands.

Advantages and Disadvantages of both styles;

Advantages of 2HF:
- Lot less feat intensive.
- Cheaper (you need half the weapons)
- Deals a good amount of damage.
- Power attack is really good at low levels and very ocasionally at high levels.

Disadvantages of 2HF
- Deals less damage than 2WF
- Power Attack becomes almost useless at higher levels.

Advantages of 2WF:
- Deals more damage per round
- It is more fun to play
- You get more attacks
- You can have different magic effects in each hand and create combos.
- You can get 2 weapon defense feats, for improved defense.

Disadvantages of 2WF
- Very feat intensive: Although you don't need to buy Power attack and Cleave, you have to get: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, TWD, ITWD, GTWD. So you need about 4 extra feats. Although you could pass TWDefense feats and buy an animated shield. In that case you only spend 1 more feat than a 2HF
- Damage reduction can be a problem if you don't have the right weapons.
- Expensive. You need 2 weapons! That is double the money you have to spend. At low levels there is not much difference, at high levels you start to notice it.

sure there are more things I didn't think about.
Kyndig
09-01-04, 03:23 PM I don't have any books in front of me right now. Could someone give me a character example with stats and the stats for the weapons they want to look at and I'll give a full break down of the numbers for damage, to hit, expected damge per round, etc.

Thanks!
schulerta
09-01-04, 03:34 PM Fighter 6
Str 16
Dex 15
Con 13
Int 13
Wis 14
Cha 7

Feats for TWF with a two-bladed sword:
Power Attack
Two-weapon fighting
exotic weapon prof (two-bladed sword)
weapon focus (two-bladed sword)
weapon specialization (two-bladed sword)
improved two weapon fighting
2 feats left over (assuming a human)

Feats for TWF with a bastard sword and a light spiked shield:
Power Attack
Two-weapon fighting
exotic weapon prof (bastard sword)
weapon focus (bastard sword)
weapon focus (spiked shield)
weapon specialization (bastard sword)
weapon specialization (spiked shield
improved two weapon fighting
0 feats left over

Feats for THF with a Greatsword:
Power Attack
Weapon Focus (greatsword)
Weapon Specialization (greatsword)
5 feats left over (assuming a human)

Troy
troublemaker
09-01-04, 03:36 PM Two Handed Weapons always.. :)

Much more intimidating. "Mercurial greatsword always too".

:D
CompleteSatori
09-01-04, 03:41 PM Wow Himo, none of your assertions about TWF vs THF are backed up by ANY playtesting.
In fact most playtesting shows quite the opposite. TWF is truly optimal in Sneak Attack builds, with only an average showing in any other weapon concept... Especially beyond Improved Two Weapon Fighting. You tend to hit less often, spend more money on weapons, and more character resources on feats, while STILL averaging less damage than a THF.
Again, Sneak Attack changes the game mechanics of TWF to make it optimal.

As far as THF and Power Attack becoming 'useless' at high levels, thats just not so! Power Attack 2 with a 2 handed weapon is almost always the best number, and access to spells from party members that increase your hit potential make PA even more interesting at higher level (Divine Favor allows a +6 to hit and damage, thats 12 points of damage when Power Attack 2 handed comes into play, and thats only one spell).
Access to feats such as Favored Power Attack, the class abilities of the Frenzied Berserk (3 and 4:1 on PA) only increase the margins between THF and TWF.

Essentially, if you are not a Rogue/Ninja whatever, you are more than likely going to see more damage over time with Power Attack and a 2 handed weapon than you are with TWF.
Blade2718
09-01-04, 04:04 PM Combat Brute also lets you get the favorable 3:1 ratio on your Power Attacks.
Kyndig
09-01-04, 04:17 PM Here is the breakdown from schulerta's stats:

Feats for TWF with a two-bladed sword:
(Each of the following values are the expected damage per round with a full round attack for increasing AC, from AC 15 to AC 30)

21.5 19.6 17.8 15.9 14.0 12.2 10.3 8.4 6.5 5.6 4.6 3.7 2.8 1.8 1.8 1.8

Feats for TWF with a bastard sword and a light spiked shield:

19.9 18.2 16.5 14.7 13.0 11.3 9.5 7.8 6.0 5.2 4.3 3.4 2.6 1.7 1.7 1.7

Feats for THF with a Greatsword:

19.3 17.9 16.4 15.0 13.6 12.2 10.7 9.3 7.9 6.4 5.0 4.3 3.5 2.8 2.1 1.4

While TWF is better for the lower ACs, THF does catch up. And the 2 for 1 for Power Attack adds up in a hurry.

To echo CompleteSatori, unless you have sneak attack, I feel that it's better to go with the big weapon two handed route for damage.
troublemaker
09-01-04, 04:25 PM For lower AC = TWF
For higher AC = THW
For higher damage = THW

And the best thing.... to kick some ass real fast.... THW : :devil:
Sir Gummibaerchen
09-01-04, 05:04 PM The best is using a race like goliaths in conjunction with a one-handed exotic weapon, the exotic weapon master trick which increases your strength multiplier to 2 when using a one-handed melee-weapon two-handed, together with combat brute and frenzied berserker.

So you have 2d8 (large bastard sword) + str-bonus*2 + power-attack 3:1 damage.

Is there any way to include warmind (for their rage-like ability) into this?
Shalamar420
09-01-04, 05:34 PM The best is using a race like goliaths in conjunction with a one-handed exotic weapon, the exotic weapon master trick which increases your strength multiplier to 2 when using a one-handed melee-weapon two-handed, together with combat brute and frenzied berserker.

So you have 2d8 (large bastard sword) + str-bonus*2 + power-attack 3:1 damage.

Along these lines, is there a good way for a medium size character to use a larger than normal weapon in this way? Or is that the "exotic weapon master trick"?

Anyway if I get the gist of the posts here, my best bet is THF with some singular bad-a$$ weapon. So here's the sticker: what weapon exactly? I originally was going to build a tough dwarven fighter/cleric (hell maybe skip the cleric for a rounded PrC, its a small party) so a shield sounded cool, but I can definately understand an 'annihilate first, defend second' style. :schemes:

Of course I'm not sure I want to start another "which weapon is better" debate.
Jaxom_Faux
09-01-04, 06:14 PM i generally say if you have it flaunt it aka multiply that badass str score with a 2hw...add wield oversized wep, or monkeygrip and have some fun with larger than usual weapons. also, i generally play a powercleric melee build that gets friggin wicked with PA due to the sheer number of enchants that can be slapped on. i was typically hitting fighter range for AC with all excess dumped into PA and averaging 70-90 dmg per hit with 5 attacks a round or so, note though it was a high level character before i got that ridiculous, at lower levels the tricked worked just as well, throw in some smite, feat of strength, divine power, righteous might, etc, it gets wrong, AC was always decent, and besides, if ya got ruffed up ya just healed.
insatium
09-01-04, 06:17 PM Along these lines, is there a good way for a medium size character to use a larger than normal weapon in this way? Or is that the "exotic weapon master trick"?

Anyway if I get the gist of the posts here, my best bet is THF with some singular bad-a$$ weapon.
1. The Monkey Grip feat. -2 attack to enable you to use a Large greatsword two-handed (or other two-handed weapon). Also, goliaths (Races of Stone) and half-giants (XPH) have an ability called Powerful Build that lets them effectively choose between Medium or Large, whichever is mechanically better for that circumstance)
2. Exotic Weapon Master trick is to use the ability Uncanny Blow, which allows you to add 2x your Str bonus to damage rolls when wielding a one-handed exotic weapon in two hands.
3. THF>TWF, IMO, without some sort of extra damage, be it Favored Enemy (evil), Sneak Attack, what have you.
jmpt
09-01-04, 08:26 PM Monkey Grip is a poor man's power attack, take monkey grip or use larger weapons if you want to deal less damage than normal.

Mathematically power attack will usually do less damage on average unless your hitting low ACs. Even then only use 2 or 3 points.

Forget shields, just buy your self an animated shield or a ring of forceshield.

In general TWF does significantly more damage against low AC opponents, it does marginally more against super high AC where you need a 20 to hit. The ACs in between is a close battle between THF and TWF for supremacy as the best damage output.

Basically the high the strength, the more THF pulls away from TWF (though this difference is only marginal)

On the other hand the more bonuses from other sources such as weapon specialisation, magic pluses, flaming, shocking, sneak attack, bard song etc, improved crit, the more TWF pulls away from THF. Unlike strength, the increase significantly improves TWF. Thus TWF will be much more superior in the long run (though you must always take the TWF chain feats)

The only saving grace for THF is haste, this gives THF a huge boost because it benefits THF much more than TWF.

EWM can aid either style with either twin weapon fighting or uncanny blow.

You can also try a monk\twf using both flurry of blows and twf. Or merge twf and thf. Try greatsword and spiked armour for extra damage. Of course these areas might draw attention from the DM (though technically legal).

With resorting to the above cheese, I would opt for a double weapon. Thus you can change to THF if the AC range favours the THF style, or when you do a move and attack.
Ipsissimus
09-01-04, 09:00 PM From experience, at low to mid level a fighter seems better off with either using a 2 handed weapon for pure damage output or a wpn/shield for the boost in AC, especially against multiple opponents.

Later on, once you've gains a nice chunk of HPS and equipment you can really spread out and vary your tactics with less consequence...well you know what I mean.

TWF early on seems alittle premature for a fighter of 5th lvl or lower, especially without a high ability score. The minus to hit on both your attacks, the halved str on your off hand, etc.

THF or Sword and Board, at least until you're more confident in your abilities.
jmpt
09-01-04, 10:04 PM From experience, at low to mid level a fighter seems better off with either using a 2 handed weapon for pure damage output or a wpn/shield for the boost in AC, especially against multiple opponents.

Later on, once you've gains a nice chunk of HPS and equipment you can really spread out and vary your tactics with less consequence...well you know what I mean.

TWF early on seems alittle premature for a fighter of 5th lvl or lower, especially without a high ability score. The minus to hit on both your attacks, the halved str on your off hand, etc.

THF or Sword and Board, at least until you're more confident in your abilities.

To give an idea. a 5th level fighter with specialization and +1 magic weapon. Greatsword vs two-bladed sword, str 14

AC 23 or less, TWF is better
AC 23 to 29, THF is better
AC 29 + TWF is better.

How many AC 23 to 29 opponents do you expect to face at 5th level?
Nazzareth
09-02-04, 11:10 PM If you want to do alot of damage with a melee weapon and are will to take some penalities and spend alot of feats. Use the special materials (magically refined gold or platinum ) from magic of faerun source book to create a heavy weapon and combine this with the Monkey Grip feat, now you have a weapon that does damage two sizes larger the normal. The warmace (4d6), bastard sword (3d8), maul (3d8) and dire pick (3d8) are all one handed exotic weapons that can be used for TWF, these weapons can also be used as great two handed weapon fighting weapons if you take the Exotic Weapon Master PRC and choose the uncanny blow ability, that give you double str to damage if you use them two handed.
Karkul
09-02-04, 11:36 PM I agree with the 2HF > 2WF trend for most characters. The only times I would sway on that is when abilities like Favored Power Attack or Supreme Power Attack come into play.

Most Frenzied Berserker builds end up with obscene strength scores and high BAB. Lets say you have 20 BAB and 40 str. If you -15 for power attack and another -2 for 2WF bonuses, you're still left with a good bonus to hit (And this isnt even factoring weapon enhancements). Every extra attack is going to get you another 30 dmg per hit + str mod + wpn dmg. With just one extra attack this probably wouldnt be worth it, but with 3 it would end up outdamaging a 2h'er. Of all the 2WF builds I think the Frenzied Berserkers actually have the easiest time overcoming the penalties, and with the addition of their super power attack it can really shine. Two handed weapons are restricted to at best 5 (+1 frenzy, EWPM chain flurry) hits, but with the two weapon fighting feats you can get up to 7 (+1 frenzy).

The way power attack changed in 3.5 helped to close the gap between 1h and 2h (it used to be HUGE), now 1h/1h ends up with a little bit less accuracy, but a not so insignifigant damage increase (too big to be called little, too little to be called big).

Personally I prefer 2HF for the simplicity it allows, less expensive, less feats, less prerequisites...and everyone likes doing a crapload of damage in 1 hit.

If you want to do alot of damage with a melee weapon and are will to take some penalities and spend alot of feats. Use the special materials (magically refined gold or platinum ) from magic of faerun source book to create a heavy weapon and combine this with the Monkey Grip feat, now you have a weapon that does damage two sizes larger the normal. The warmace (4d6), bastard sword (3d8), maul (3d8) and dire pick (3d8) are all one handed exotic weapons that can be used for TWF, these weapons can also be used as great two handed weapon fighting weapons if you take the Exotic Weapon Master PRC and choose the uncanny blow ability, that give you double str to damage if you use them two handed.
If I were th DM i'd make you take ewp first for the basic weapon, and then again for the heavy version...on second thought i'd just send the party into a neverending maze of tunnels where you have to crawl around. Try using your telephone pole-sized mace now!
Nazzareth
09-03-04, 12:28 AM Yep thats how it works like I said it takes alot of feats and cost alot of money too. You could always cast shatter on the players weapon or put them up against someone with admantine greatsword with the improved sunder feat, of course do this to them as soon as they leave the maze of crawl tunnels and find open space.

Players are like cats there's lots of ways to skin them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shalamar420 09-01-04, 02:46 PM	For a low to mid level fighter, I was just thinking about the possible damage output from two different styles one could have. Who gets better consistent damage with say a 5th level fighter or some variant with: A large category weapon (with monkey grip) or even just a good one handed weapon (dwarven waraxe for example) pulse a spiked large shield (and say the shield expert feat from Sword and Fist that allows shield attack and AC) used with two weapon fighting. OR..... A big ass weapon used two-handed to get the most out of the 1.5* strength damage. I know the general consensus is that if you have a good fighter with very high strength, the two-handed weapon is better, but at lower levels with a good (but not uber good) strength, maybe the TWF could fare better?
Himo 09-01-04, 03:14 PM	Two weapon fiighting will deal more damage in the mid-long term. But, I would advice you to either get a double weapon or the same light weapon in each hand, so feats like weapon specialization, weapon focus, improved critical and such work for both hands. Advantages and Disadvantages of both styles; Advantages of 2HF: - Lot less feat intensive. - Cheaper (you need half the weapons) - Deals a good amount of damage. - Power attack is really good at low levels and very ocasionally at high levels. Disadvantages of 2HF - Deals less damage than 2WF - Power Attack becomes almost useless at higher levels. Advantages of 2WF: - Deals more damage per round - It is more fun to play - You get more attacks - You can have different magic effects in each hand and create combos. - You can get 2 weapon defense feats, for improved defense. Disadvantages of 2WF - Very feat intensive: Although you don't need to buy Power attack and Cleave, you have to get: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, TWD, ITWD, GTWD. So you need about 4 extra feats. Although you could pass TWDefense feats and buy an animated shield. In that case you only spend 1 more feat than a 2HF - Damage reduction can be a problem if you don't have the right weapons. - Expensive. You need 2 weapons! That is double the money you have to spend. At low levels there is not much difference, at high levels you start to notice it. sure there are more things I didn't think about.
Kyndig 09-01-04, 03:23 PM	I don't have any books in front of me right now. Could someone give me a character example with stats and the stats for the weapons they want to look at and I'll give a full break down of the numbers for damage, to hit, expected damge per round, etc. Thanks!
schulerta 09-01-04, 03:34 PM	Fighter 6 Str 16 Dex 15 Con 13 Int 13 Wis 14 Cha 7 Feats for TWF with a two-bladed sword: Power Attack Two-weapon fighting exotic weapon prof (two-bladed sword) weapon focus (two-bladed sword) weapon specialization (two-bladed sword) improved two weapon fighting 2 feats left over (assuming a human) Feats for TWF with a bastard sword and a light spiked shield: Power Attack Two-weapon fighting exotic weapon prof (bastard sword) weapon focus (bastard sword) weapon focus (spiked shield) weapon specialization (bastard sword) weapon specialization (spiked shield improved two weapon fighting 0 feats left over Feats for THF with a Greatsword: Power Attack Weapon Focus (greatsword) Weapon Specialization (greatsword) 5 feats left over (assuming a human) Troy
troublemaker 09-01-04, 03:36 PM	Two Handed Weapons always.. :) Much more intimidating. "Mercurial greatsword always too". :D
CompleteSatori 09-01-04, 03:41 PM	Wow Himo, none of your assertions about TWF vs THF are backed up by ANY playtesting. In fact most playtesting shows quite the opposite. TWF is truly optimal in Sneak Attack builds, with only an average showing in any other weapon concept... Especially beyond Improved Two Weapon Fighting. You tend to hit less often, spend more money on weapons, and more character resources on feats, while STILL averaging less damage than a THF. Again, Sneak Attack changes the game mechanics of TWF to make it optimal. As far as THF and Power Attack becoming 'useless' at high levels, thats just not so! Power Attack 2 with a 2 handed weapon is almost always the best number, and access to spells from party members that increase your hit potential make PA even more interesting at higher level (Divine Favor allows a +6 to hit and damage, thats 12 points of damage when Power Attack 2 handed comes into play, and thats only one spell). Access to feats such as Favored Power Attack, the class abilities of the Frenzied Berserk (3 and 4:1 on PA) only increase the margins between THF and TWF. Essentially, if you are not a Rogue/Ninja whatever, you are more than likely going to see more damage over time with Power Attack and a 2 handed weapon than you are with TWF.
Blade2718 09-01-04, 04:04 PM	Combat Brute also lets you get the favorable 3:1 ratio on your Power Attacks.
Kyndig 09-01-04, 04:17 PM	Here is the breakdown from schulerta's stats: Feats for TWF with a two-bladed sword: (Each of the following values are the expected damage per round with a full round attack for increasing AC, from AC 15 to AC 30) 21.5 19.6 17.8 15.9 14.0 12.2 10.3 8.4 6.5 5.6 4.6 3.7 2.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 Feats for TWF with a bastard sword and a light spiked shield: 19.9 18.2 16.5 14.7 13.0 11.3 9.5 7.8 6.0 5.2 4.3 3.4 2.6 1.7 1.7 1.7 Feats for THF with a Greatsword: 19.3 17.9 16.4 15.0 13.6 12.2 10.7 9.3 7.9 6.4 5.0 4.3 3.5 2.8 2.1 1.4 While TWF is better for the lower ACs, THF does catch up. And the 2 for 1 for Power Attack adds up in a hurry. To echo CompleteSatori, unless you have sneak attack, I feel that it's better to go with the big weapon two handed route for damage.
troublemaker 09-01-04, 04:25 PM	For lower AC = TWF For higher AC = THW For higher damage = THW And the best thing.... to kick some ass real fast.... THW : :devil:
Sir Gummibaerchen 09-01-04, 05:04 PM	The best is using a race like goliaths in conjunction with a one-handed exotic weapon, the exotic weapon master trick which increases your strength multiplier to 2 when using a one-handed melee-weapon two-handed, together with combat brute and frenzied berserker. So you have 2d8 (large bastard sword) + str-bonus*2 + power-attack 3:1 damage. Is there any way to include warmind (for their rage-like ability) into this?
Shalamar420 09-01-04, 05:34 PM	The best is using a race like goliaths in conjunction with a one-handed exotic weapon, the exotic weapon master trick which increases your strength multiplier to 2 when using a one-handed melee-weapon two-handed, together with combat brute and frenzied berserker. So you have 2d8 (large bastard sword) + str-bonus*2 + power-attack 3:1 damage. Along these lines, is there a good way for a medium size character to use a larger than normal weapon in this way? Or is that the "exotic weapon master trick"? Anyway if I get the gist of the posts here, my best bet is THF with some singular bad-a$$ weapon. So here's the sticker: what weapon exactly? I originally was going to build a tough dwarven fighter/cleric (hell maybe skip the cleric for a rounded PrC, its a small party) so a shield sounded cool, but I can definately understand an 'annihilate first, defend second' style. :schemes: Of course I'm not sure I want to start another "which weapon is better" debate.
Jaxom_Faux 09-01-04, 06:14 PM	i generally say if you have it flaunt it aka multiply that badass str score with a 2hw...add wield oversized wep, or monkeygrip and have some fun with larger than usual weapons. also, i generally play a powercleric melee build that gets friggin wicked with PA due to the sheer number of enchants that can be slapped on. i was typically hitting fighter range for AC with all excess dumped into PA and averaging 70-90 dmg per hit with 5 attacks a round or so, note though it was a high level character before i got that ridiculous, at lower levels the tricked worked just as well, throw in some smite, feat of strength, divine power, righteous might, etc, it gets wrong, AC was always decent, and besides, if ya got ruffed up ya just healed.
insatium 09-01-04, 06:17 PM	Along these lines, is there a good way for a medium size character to use a larger than normal weapon in this way? Or is that the "exotic weapon master trick"? Anyway if I get the gist of the posts here, my best bet is THF with some singular bad-a$$ weapon. 1. The Monkey Grip feat. -2 attack to enable you to use a Large greatsword two-handed (or other two-handed weapon). Also, goliaths (Races of Stone) and half-giants (XPH) have an ability called Powerful Build that lets them effectively choose between Medium or Large, whichever is mechanically better for that circumstance) 2. Exotic Weapon Master trick is to use the ability Uncanny Blow, which allows you to add 2x your Str bonus to damage rolls when wielding a one-handed exotic weapon in two hands. 3. THF>TWF, IMO, without some sort of extra damage, be it Favored Enemy (evil), Sneak Attack, what have you.
jmpt 09-01-04, 08:26 PM	Monkey Grip is a poor man's power attack, take monkey grip or use larger weapons if you want to deal less damage than normal. Mathematically power attack will usually do less damage on average unless your hitting low ACs. Even then only use 2 or 3 points. Forget shields, just buy your self an animated shield or a ring of forceshield. In general TWF does significantly more damage against low AC opponents, it does marginally more against super high AC where you need a 20 to hit. The ACs in between is a close battle between THF and TWF for supremacy as the best damage output. Basically the high the strength, the more THF pulls away from TWF (though this difference is only marginal) On the other hand the more bonuses from other sources such as weapon specialisation, magic pluses, flaming, shocking, sneak attack, bard song etc, improved crit, the more TWF pulls away from THF. Unlike strength, the increase significantly improves TWF. Thus TWF will be much more superior in the long run (though you must always take the TWF chain feats) The only saving grace for THF is haste, this gives THF a huge boost because it benefits THF much more than TWF. EWM can aid either style with either twin weapon fighting or uncanny blow. You can also try a monk\twf using both flurry of blows and twf. Or merge twf and thf. Try greatsword and spiked armour for extra damage. Of course these areas might draw attention from the DM (though technically legal). With resorting to the above cheese, I would opt for a double weapon. Thus you can change to THF if the AC range favours the THF style, or when you do a move and attack.
Ipsissimus 09-01-04, 09:00 PM	From experience, at low to mid level a fighter seems better off with either using a 2 handed weapon for pure damage output or a wpn/shield for the boost in AC, especially against multiple opponents. Later on, once you've gains a nice chunk of HPS and equipment you can really spread out and vary your tactics with less consequence...well you know what I mean. TWF early on seems alittle premature for a fighter of 5th lvl or lower, especially without a high ability score. The minus to hit on both your attacks, the halved str on your off hand, etc. THF or Sword and Board, at least until you're more confident in your abilities.
jmpt 09-01-04, 10:04 PM	From experience, at low to mid level a fighter seems better off with either using a 2 handed weapon for pure damage output or a wpn/shield for the boost in AC, especially against multiple opponents. Later on, once you've gains a nice chunk of HPS and equipment you can really spread out and vary your tactics with less consequence...well you know what I mean. TWF early on seems alittle premature for a fighter of 5th lvl or lower, especially without a high ability score. The minus to hit on both your attacks, the halved str on your off hand, etc. THF or Sword and Board, at least until you're more confident in your abilities. To give an idea. a 5th level fighter with specialization and +1 magic weapon. Greatsword vs two-bladed sword, str 14 AC 23 or less, TWF is better AC 23 to 29, THF is better AC 29 + TWF is better. How many AC 23 to 29 opponents do you expect to face at 5th level?
Nazzareth 09-02-04, 11:10 PM	If you want to do alot of damage with a melee weapon and are will to take some penalities and spend alot of feats. Use the special materials (magically refined gold or platinum ) from magic of faerun source book to create a heavy weapon and combine this with the Monkey Grip feat, now you have a weapon that does damage two sizes larger the normal. The warmace (4d6), bastard sword (3d8), maul (3d8) and dire pick (3d8) are all one handed exotic weapons that can be used for TWF, these weapons can also be used as great two handed weapon fighting weapons if you take the Exotic Weapon Master PRC and choose the uncanny blow ability, that give you double str to damage if you use them two handed.
Karkul 09-02-04, 11:36 PM	I agree with the 2HF > 2WF trend for most characters. The only times I would sway on that is when abilities like Favored Power Attack or Supreme Power Attack come into play. Most Frenzied Berserker builds end up with obscene strength scores and high BAB. Lets say you have 20 BAB and 40 str. If you -15 for power attack and another -2 for 2WF bonuses, you're still left with a good bonus to hit (And this isnt even factoring weapon enhancements). Every extra attack is going to get you another 30 dmg per hit + str mod + wpn dmg. With just one extra attack this probably wouldnt be worth it, but with 3 it would end up outdamaging a 2h'er. Of all the 2WF builds I think the Frenzied Berserkers actually have the easiest time overcoming the penalties, and with the addition of their super power attack it can really shine. Two handed weapons are restricted to at best 5 (+1 frenzy, EWPM chain flurry) hits, but with the two weapon fighting feats you can get up to 7 (+1 frenzy). The way power attack changed in 3.5 helped to close the gap between 1h and 2h (it used to be HUGE), now 1h/1h ends up with a little bit less accuracy, but a not so insignifigant damage increase (too big to be called little, too little to be called big). Personally I prefer 2HF for the simplicity it allows, less expensive, less feats, less prerequisites...and everyone likes doing a crapload of damage in 1 hit. If you want to do alot of damage with a melee weapon and are will to take some penalities and spend alot of feats. Use the special materials (magically refined gold or platinum ) from magic of faerun source book to create a heavy weapon and combine this with the Monkey Grip feat, now you have a weapon that does damage two sizes larger the normal. The warmace (4d6), bastard sword (3d8), maul (3d8) and dire pick (3d8) are all one handed exotic weapons that can be used for TWF, these weapons can also be used as great two handed weapon fighting weapons if you take the Exotic Weapon Master PRC and choose the uncanny blow ability, that give you double str to damage if you use them two handed. If I were th DM i'd make you take ewp first for the basic weapon, and then again for the heavy version...on second thought i'd just send the party into a neverending maze of tunnels where you have to crawl around. Try using your telephone pole-sized mace now!
Nazzareth 09-03-04, 12:28 AM	Yep thats how it works like I said it takes alot of feats and cost alot of money too. You could always cast shatter on the players weapon or put them up against someone with admantine greatsword with the improved sunder feat, of course do this to them as soon as they leave the maze of crawl tunnels and find open space. Players are like cats there's lots of ways to skin them.