Better than Shadowdancer??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Better than Shadowdancer??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zippy79
08-26-06, 11:41 PM Through a series of non-optimal levelups (what can I say?), I find myself playing a human Ftr4/Rog4, with a shot at taking ShadowDancer once I get one more Feat (at 9th level). He's a halberd-user that tumbles to get as many flanks (and sneak attacks) as possible. His next level will probably be Rogue, to get the third die of Sneak.

Three questions:
1) Should he be Feinting to get more sneaks? Or is Feinting stupid?
2) What are some good alternatives to ShadowDancer?
3) Or is a level of Cleric (str) with Enlarge Person a good idea?

Thanks!
zippy
ChristopherGroves
08-27-06, 12:34 AM Rest of build?

Show us your stats, feats, etc. and what books are allowed in your game and we'll get cracking!
Xeraph
08-27-06, 04:16 PM ALWAYS START WITH LEVELS IN ROGUE!

The extra skill points at the beginning of your career is important! :D

See this bastard: http://l5r.alderac.com/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf

Also, can you retrain or redo levels? Feat Rogue 2/ Fighter 2/ Rokugan Ninja 4 would be much better.

But, as ChristopherGroves said, we need more info. Post everything, and we will take you down the path of martial-rogue-sneak-attack-godness!
rilem
08-27-06, 04:41 PM What books?

Shadowdancer generally doesn't mix well with rogue, except as a 1-level dip when you've met the requirements anyway.

Ninja Spy (OA) or Umbral Disciple (Incarnum) also get Hide in Plain Sight and other useful abilities.
Andarious
08-27-06, 04:44 PM If there is a god of gaming, he will smite Alderac like Sodam I mean. Sorry I know D&D isn't perfectly balanced by any means and I know there's more broken core stuff than anything AEG could pump out but it's broken you have to look for. AEG is just flat out broken for the most part, or worthless.

Asa note, there are plenty of things better than shadow dancer, big reason being shadow dancer has poor base attack like a rogue and no sneak attack dice added. The majority of shadow dancers cool abilities are not the most combat useful however I just had a neat idea for a Monk/Shadow Dancer with Sun School which again isn't actually very powerful just nifty and very Mortal Kobat flavoured.

If you take your 9th level feat as Improved Initiative and tweek ranks in skills a bit to get Hide and Move Silently of 10, the Nightsong Enforcer Prc from Complete Adventurer is quite a bit more practical for combat and not a hard goal to reach.
Throught the 10 levels you'll get full base attack and 4 dice sneak attack.

If you're evil Ghost Faced Killer could be a happy little touch. It gets Sudden Strike which isn't quite as good as sneak attack but the Ghost Step ability helps a lot as well.

I'm sure people will have plenty of good ideas for you.
PhaedrusXY
08-27-06, 05:41 PM 1) Should he be Feinting to get more sneaks? Or is Feinting stupid?Feinting is stupid, and useless. Don't bother. Get a Bag of Tricks, and summon yourself a flanking buddy or something. If someone bothers to kill it, at least that is a hit or two that didn't get directed at you or an ally.
zippy79
08-29-06, 05:52 PM Sorry for the delay... here's the stats (and comments):

Rog4/Ftr4,

Str 16 (18 with Gauntlets of Ogre Str)
Dex 18
Con 13 (don't know why this is so low)
Int 15
Wis 14
Cha 10

BAB 7
Fort 5
Reflex 10
Will 5

Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Eyes in the back of the head (CW), Spring Attack, WF Halberd, WS Halberd
Weapon of choice: "Hindsight", a halberd with the Deadly Precision attribute. This makes a total of +4d6 on sneak attacks (with +5d6 possible if I take another level of Rogue).
Combat-related Skills: (including ability modifiers) Hide10, Jump 11, Ride 6, Tumble 16

I haven't taken my skills for 8th level yet... I have 10 to spend. As I said earlier, his next level will probably be Rogue, to get the third die of Sneak Attack. I'm not sure where to go after that. We are using the core books + the Complete books. Some DragonLance aspects are also allowed, but I am not at all familiar with that setting.

This character fell together accidentally... not much planning or foresight. I haven't played a rogue in years, and I have never multiclassed one.

Zippy
Phoenix00
08-29-06, 06:07 PM collar of umbral metamorphosis. Get it, Get it, Get it :D

It is an item from Tome of Magic, grants the Dark Creature Template, which has an increase land speed, bonus to hide, and hide in plain sight, plus other goodies.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zippy79 08-26-06, 11:41 PM	Through a series of non-optimal levelups (what can I say?), I find myself playing a human Ftr4/Rog4, with a shot at taking ShadowDancer once I get one more Feat (at 9th level). He's a halberd-user that tumbles to get as many flanks (and sneak attacks) as possible. His next level will probably be Rogue, to get the third die of Sneak. Three questions: 1) Should he be Feinting to get more sneaks? Or is Feinting stupid? 2) What are some good alternatives to ShadowDancer? 3) Or is a level of Cleric (str) with Enlarge Person a good idea? Thanks! zippy
ChristopherGroves 08-27-06, 12:34 AM	Rest of build? Show us your stats, feats, etc. and what books are allowed in your game and we'll get cracking!
Xeraph 08-27-06, 04:16 PM	ALWAYS START WITH LEVELS IN ROGUE! The extra skill points at the beginning of your career is important! :D See this bastard: http://l5r.alderac.com/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf Also, can you retrain or redo levels? Feat Rogue 2/ Fighter 2/ Rokugan Ninja 4 would be much better. But, as ChristopherGroves said, we need more info. Post everything, and we will take you down the path of martial-rogue-sneak-attack-godness!
rilem 08-27-06, 04:41 PM	What books? Shadowdancer generally doesn't mix well with rogue, except as a 1-level dip when you've met the requirements anyway. Ninja Spy (OA) or Umbral Disciple (Incarnum) also get Hide in Plain Sight and other useful abilities.
Andarious 08-27-06, 04:44 PM	If there is a god of gaming, he will smite Alderac like Sodam I mean. Sorry I know D&D isn't perfectly balanced by any means and I know there's more broken core stuff than anything AEG could pump out but it's broken you have to look for. AEG is just flat out broken for the most part, or worthless. Asa note, there are plenty of things better than shadow dancer, big reason being shadow dancer has poor base attack like a rogue and no sneak attack dice added. The majority of shadow dancers cool abilities are not the most combat useful however I just had a neat idea for a Monk/Shadow Dancer with Sun School which again isn't actually very powerful just nifty and very Mortal Kobat flavoured. If you take your 9th level feat as Improved Initiative and tweek ranks in skills a bit to get Hide and Move Silently of 10, the Nightsong Enforcer Prc from Complete Adventurer is quite a bit more practical for combat and not a hard goal to reach. Throught the 10 levels you'll get full base attack and 4 dice sneak attack. If you're evil Ghost Faced Killer could be a happy little touch. It gets Sudden Strike which isn't quite as good as sneak attack but the Ghost Step ability helps a lot as well. I'm sure people will have plenty of good ideas for you.
PhaedrusXY 08-27-06, 05:41 PM	1) Should he be Feinting to get more sneaks? Or is Feinting stupid?Feinting is stupid, and useless. Don't bother. Get a Bag of Tricks, and summon yourself a flanking buddy or something. If someone bothers to kill it, at least that is a hit or two that didn't get directed at you or an ally.
zippy79 08-29-06, 05:52 PM	Sorry for the delay... here's the stats (and comments): Rog4/Ftr4, Str 16 (18 with Gauntlets of Ogre Str) Dex 18 Con 13 (don't know why this is so low) Int 15 Wis 14 Cha 10 BAB 7 Fort 5 Reflex 10 Will 5 Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Eyes in the back of the head (CW), Spring Attack, WF Halberd, WS Halberd Weapon of choice: "Hindsight", a halberd with the Deadly Precision attribute. This makes a total of +4d6 on sneak attacks (with +5d6 possible if I take another level of Rogue). Combat-related Skills: (including ability modifiers) Hide10, Jump 11, Ride 6, Tumble 16 I haven't taken my skills for 8th level yet... I have 10 to spend. As I said earlier, his next level will probably be Rogue, to get the third die of Sneak Attack. I'm not sure where to go after that. We are using the core books + the Complete books. Some DragonLance aspects are also allowed, but I am not at all familiar with that setting. This character fell together accidentally... not much planning or foresight. I haven't played a rogue in years, and I have never multiclassed one. Zippy
Phoenix00 08-29-06, 06:07 PM	collar of umbral metamorphosis. Get it, Get it, Get it :D It is an item from Tome of Magic, grants the Dark Creature Template, which has an increase land speed, bonus to hide, and hide in plain sight, plus other goodies.