Better Undead Master [Archive] - Wizards Community

Better Undead Master [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The Crystal Mind
04-03-06, 09:49 AM Hey, folks. I'm a DM who thought that the Undead Master presented in the DMG II was kind of lacking. So, I'm wondering if you could advise me on creating a better one. The goal for this BBEG is to control as many undead as possible, and to try and buff them up upon creation. I'd like to use as many feats as possible from the Corpsecrafter tree.

Human
(also, I eliminated the prereq of Spell Focus for True Necromancer, and replaced it with Corpsecrafter)

1. Dread Necromancer 1 Practiced Spellcaster (Dread Necromancer), Corpsecrafter
2. Dread Necromancer 2
3. Cleric 1 (Domains: Death, Deathbound) Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric)
4. Cleric 2
5. Cleric 3
6. Dread Necromancer 3 Tomb-Tainted Soul
7. Dread Necromancer 4
8. True Necromancer 1
9. True Necromancer 2 Destructive Retribution
10. True Necromancer 3
11. True Necromancer 4
12. True Necromancer 5 Undead Leadership
13. True Necromancer 6
14. True Necromancer 7
15. True Necromancer 8 Deadly Chill
16. True Necromancer 9
17. True Necromancer 10
18. True Necromancer 11 Fell Animate
19. True Necromancer 12
20. True Necromancer 13

I haven't looked at equipment yet for this BBEG, but I was mainly fishing for suggestions to improve the basic build. I haven't decided yet on ability scores.
Sir Ringe
04-03-06, 10:06 AM If you drop 4 True Necromancer levels in favor of 4 Dread Necromancer levels, the undead would get an additional +4 Str, +2 Dex, and +2hp per HD in addition to the bonuses from corpsecrafter.

Normally I'd suggest Bolster Resistance, but if your necromancer is going for quantity, turning your undead into negative energy bombs when good clerics try to turn them isn't a bad idea. The key to that is to make sure they are low enough HD so that the cleric can actually destory them with turn instead of making them flee, but high enough so that they don't suck.
SoulGamit
04-03-06, 10:49 AM You're better off going Dread Necromancer 20, you'll control 4+Cha mod per class level with animate dead, and get simular bonuses for control undead.

Assuming a modest Charisma of, say, 22, you'll be able to control 200HD worth of undead by level 20, and that's just with animate dead, and without rod of necromancy.

A question that's always bugged me though... why does a DM even have to make a build that controls a lot of undead, can't he just have the undead there... under the guy's control, as seperate encounters?

Turning undead into mindless killers also works, if you must have an explination. Have a necromancer control the undead just long enough to get it where it needs to go and then relinquesh control and let the undead go crazy.

If you want to avoid explaining how, exactly, your NPC is getting enough onyx to make all the undead, fell animate is the way to go. Illumian with the Neanhoon sygil helps with that.

For feats:

1. Fell Animate
3. Corpsecrafter
6. Leadership
9. Heighten Spell
12. Destructive Retribution
15. Deadly Chill
18. Extra Followers
cleriont
04-03-06, 01:01 PM You can check here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=609321
Was an animator that I had built.
I believe the official numbers on undead are: 240 + 32 * Cha mod hd worth of controlled undead at level 20.
K
04-03-06, 03:39 PM Have you looked at the Necromancer Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8625611#post8625611&origin=)?
SoulGamit
04-03-06, 03:50 PM Those calculations where off... the undead mastery thing doesn't stack with the undead you can control through caster levels, so you only control 8(4+Cha) through undead mastery or 120 through caster levels.

The above build can control up to 326 undead through leadership, and 20(4+Cha) worth of undead through animate dead, 20(2+Cha) through command undead and you get rebuke (which will mostly be used to keep weaker undead under your control).

Anotherwards, I'd need 14 Charisma to match your build's output on animate dead... which is easy enough to obtain. Also, drow have +1CR.
cleriont
04-03-06, 05:27 PM *As a note this build can have leadership as well.
** Mad Faith to qualify for the TN
*** I am biased towards TN, Although DN 20 is a very very strong build as well.

Assuming SoulGambit is correct about the undead pools, and from the wording of undead mastery he would appear to be so, it would be better to go:

Cleric 1 / Dread Necromancer 4 / True Necromancer 14 / Yathrinshee 1
Domains: Retribution / Undeath

Feats:
Fel Animate
Divine Metamagic (Fel Animate)[flaw]
Corpse Crafter [flaw]
Mad Faith [taint]
Destructive Retribution [taint]
Chill Touch
Arcane Disciple (Death)
Spell Focus (necromancy)
Mother Cyst <-- Could be ditched for leadership
Evil Brand
Lich Loved

CL: 35
Rebuke: 23

Base:
Animate Dead: 35 * 4: 140
Control Undead: 23 * 2: 46
Leadership: could someone else get this number

Magic gear:
Rod of Undead Mastery;
Night stick;
Cloak of Charisma (+6);
Tome of Leadership and Influence (+5)

Optional:
phylactery of undead turning (+4) and a sceptre of the netherworld (+3) to boost your rebuking level to 30

Pro's:

High number of "controlled undead"
very high caster level for necromancy spells.
More spells
Free undead, no need of onyx or any complications arising from such (not build independant)

Con's

Dont get 9th level spells until 21st level

But this is all for "controlled undead, after they are animate who really needs to control them anyway? Rooms / battle fields of uncontrolled undead are just as scary.

Better yet awaken some of your free improved mindless soldiers.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Crystal Mind 04-03-06, 09:49 AM	Hey, folks. I'm a DM who thought that the Undead Master presented in the DMG II was kind of lacking. So, I'm wondering if you could advise me on creating a better one. The goal for this BBEG is to control as many undead as possible, and to try and buff them up upon creation. I'd like to use as many feats as possible from the Corpsecrafter tree. Human (also, I eliminated the prereq of Spell Focus for True Necromancer, and replaced it with Corpsecrafter) 1. Dread Necromancer 1 Practiced Spellcaster (Dread Necromancer), Corpsecrafter 2. Dread Necromancer 2 3. Cleric 1 (Domains: Death, Deathbound) Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric) 4. Cleric 2 5. Cleric 3 6. Dread Necromancer 3 Tomb-Tainted Soul 7. Dread Necromancer 4 8. True Necromancer 1 9. True Necromancer 2 Destructive Retribution 10. True Necromancer 3 11. True Necromancer 4 12. True Necromancer 5 Undead Leadership 13. True Necromancer 6 14. True Necromancer 7 15. True Necromancer 8 Deadly Chill 16. True Necromancer 9 17. True Necromancer 10 18. True Necromancer 11 Fell Animate 19. True Necromancer 12 20. True Necromancer 13 I haven't looked at equipment yet for this BBEG, but I was mainly fishing for suggestions to improve the basic build. I haven't decided yet on ability scores.
Sir Ringe 04-03-06, 10:06 AM	If you drop 4 True Necromancer levels in favor of 4 Dread Necromancer levels, the undead would get an additional +4 Str, +2 Dex, and +2hp per HD in addition to the bonuses from corpsecrafter. Normally I'd suggest Bolster Resistance, but if your necromancer is going for quantity, turning your undead into negative energy bombs when good clerics try to turn them isn't a bad idea. The key to that is to make sure they are low enough HD so that the cleric can actually destory them with turn instead of making them flee, but high enough so that they don't suck.
SoulGamit 04-03-06, 10:49 AM	You're better off going Dread Necromancer 20, you'll control 4+Cha mod per class level with animate dead, and get simular bonuses for control undead. Assuming a modest Charisma of, say, 22, you'll be able to control 200HD worth of undead by level 20, and that's just with animate dead, and without rod of necromancy. A question that's always bugged me though... why does a DM even have to make a build that controls a lot of undead, can't he just have the undead there... under the guy's control, as seperate encounters? Turning undead into mindless killers also works, if you must have an explination. Have a necromancer control the undead just long enough to get it where it needs to go and then relinquesh control and let the undead go crazy. If you want to avoid explaining how, exactly, your NPC is getting enough onyx to make all the undead, fell animate is the way to go. Illumian with the Neanhoon sygil helps with that. For feats: 1. Fell Animate 3. Corpsecrafter 6. Leadership 9. Heighten Spell 12. Destructive Retribution 15. Deadly Chill 18. Extra Followers
cleriont 04-03-06, 01:01 PM	You can check here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=609321 Was an animator that I had built. I believe the official numbers on undead are: 240 + 32 * Cha mod hd worth of controlled undead at level 20.
K 04-03-06, 03:39 PM	Have you looked at the Necromancer Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8625611#post8625611&origin=)?
SoulGamit 04-03-06, 03:50 PM	Those calculations where off... the undead mastery thing doesn't stack with the undead you can control through caster levels, so you only control 8(4+Cha) through undead mastery or 120 through caster levels. The above build can control up to 326 undead through leadership, and 20(4+Cha) worth of undead through animate dead, 20(2+Cha) through command undead and you get rebuke (which will mostly be used to keep weaker undead under your control). Anotherwards, I'd need 14 Charisma to match your build's output on animate dead... which is easy enough to obtain. Also, drow have +1CR.
cleriont 04-03-06, 05:27 PM	As a note this build can have leadership as well. * Mad Faith to qualify for the TN *** I am biased towards TN, Although DN 20 is a very very strong build as well. Assuming SoulGambit is correct about the undead pools, and from the wording of undead mastery he would appear to be so, it would be better to go: Cleric 1 / Dread Necromancer 4 / True Necromancer 14 / Yathrinshee 1 Domains: Retribution / Undeath Feats: Fel Animate Divine Metamagic (Fel Animate)[flaw] Corpse Crafter [flaw] Mad Faith [taint] Destructive Retribution [taint] Chill Touch Arcane Disciple (Death) Spell Focus (necromancy) Mother Cyst <-- Could be ditched for leadership Evil Brand Lich Loved CL: 35 Rebuke: 23 Base: Animate Dead: 35 * 4: 140 Control Undead: 23 * 2: 46 Leadership: could someone else get this number Magic gear: Rod of Undead Mastery; Night stick; Cloak of Charisma (+6); Tome of Leadership and Influence (+5) Optional: phylactery of undead turning (+4) and a sceptre of the netherworld (+3) to boost your rebuking level to 30 Pro's: High number of "controlled undead" very high caster level for necromancy spells. More spells Free undead, no need of onyx or any complications arising from such (not build independant) Con's Dont get 9th level spells until 21st level But this is all for "controlled undead, after they are animate who really needs to control them anyway? Rooms / battle fields of uncontrolled undead are just as scary. Better yet awaken some of your free improved mindless soldiers.