Bigotry is Cruel [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bigotry is Cruel [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Parrex
10-31-05, 01:44 PM I'm a Human Warrior, determined to prove to my party, that you don't need a level adjustment or spells to whoop-***, but I might need a little help. Suggestions?

I'm allowed to use the Warrior, and Unearthed Arcana, in order to gain access to track, sneak attack, evasion, high reflex or will instead of fortitude, flaws, traits... etc, I don't want to use bloodlines, but maybe the human paragon... also I rolled 18, 18, 18, 15, 17, 18 right in front of my party, so they can't contest it. I can choose any six class skills, plus craft.

I need to hold my own with a Centaur Barbarian, a Drow Wizard, and a Nymph Cleric,
tsuyoshikentsu
10-31-05, 01:56 PM First off, I REALLY hope you don't mean the NPC class Warrior, because then you're basically screwed.

Second, do you have to be a fighter? It'd be a lot easier to be, say, a monk and do cool things than a fighter. I was just having this problem with my fighter in my game last night -- she really wants to be cool, but she's having trouble with the fact that with her feat choices, all she can do is swing a sword. (And swing it for literally twice as much damage as anyone else in the party, but that's kind of overlooked in favor of the monk jumping off walls and the druid throwing fire and summoning things. But I digress.)

The point is, IMO, if you're trying to show off what a human can do, fighter isn't a great choice. (In fact, I wouldn't recommend human if your only reqorements are base race and no LA unless it was a gestalt campaign. I'd go halfling for supermount to make the centaur horsey look stupid.)
deathwishjoe
10-31-05, 02:04 PM IMO the fighter is really only good for a few splashes of here or there to add more feats to one of the other fighter types like barbarian or monk. I really like humans for the bonus feat but if strong heart halfling is available it would probably be a better choice as you get quite a bit more for the cost of 1 skill point per level.
rilem
10-31-05, 02:07 PM He's using the Generic Warrior, a optional ruleset from Unearthed Arcana, which lets you pick up odd class abilities.

It's really not appropriate in this case, as I believe the generic rules say you shouldn't mix generics with non-generics.

Regardless, I think you can get what you want without resorting to the generic rules. What function are you looking to fill? What books are allowed? What's the starting level?

Based on your party, you've got a hard-hitter and two casters (cleric is most likely a non-combat version). So a battlefield controller is probably a good option, perhaps with some rogue levels.
Ske
10-31-05, 02:16 PM 18, 18, 18, 18, 17, 15? 10d6, drop 7 lowest?
g23armani
10-31-05, 02:31 PM 18, 18, 18, 18, 17, 15? 10d6, drop 7 lowest?

Wow, the odds of rolling stats like that are are somewhere around 1/100,000,000.
fnord
10-31-05, 04:58 PM I need to hold my own with a Centaur Barbarian, a Drow Wizard, and a Nymph Cleric,
Um... wow, spellcasters with LA. They'll pay for that later.

Do you have to use Warrior? You'll probably be better off using normal classes classes.

Perhaps:
Human Wolf Totem Barbarian 1: Power Attack, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Combat Reflexes, Flaw: Pathetic Fortitude, Flaw: Shaky
Barb 1/Fighter 1: EWP Spiked Chain
Barb 2/Fighter 1: Destructive Rage
Barb 2/Fighter 2: Improved Bull Rush, Improved Trip
Barb 3/Fighter 2:
Barb 4/Fighter 2: Righteous Wrath
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 1:
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 2:
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 3: Shock Trooper
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 4:
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 5:
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 6: Ancestral Relic
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 6/Anointed Knight 1:
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 7/Anointed Knight 1:
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 8/Anointed Knight 1: Jump Attack
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 9/Anointed Knight 1:
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 10/Anointed Knight 1:
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 10/Anointed Knight 1/Human Paragon 1: Mage-Slayer
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 10/Anointed Knight 1/Human Paragon 2:
Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 10/Anointed Knight 1/Human Paragon 3: Pierce Magical Protection

If you don't mind a little bit of magical ability, substitute Anointed Knight and Human Paragon for Heir of Syberis.
Llochlyn
10-31-05, 06:15 PM Like the odds of rolling everything under 7 are :) wich happened to me once :rolleyes:

You have access to sneak attacks and a plenty of feats to make it even more powerful, you want to use sneak attacks as much as you can... So try to get a lot of attacks with those feats... without being to much overpowered (read without having 846 attacks a turn) a TWF dagger thrower can work pretty well... You have to work to get ranged flanking, wich invisible blade or master thrower (don't remember wich) can offer you, and can work with 3 attacks a round at level 2, and top at 8 attacks (4 normal, 3 from TWF, 1 for rapid shot)

Certainly are other ways to improve this further, but I let optimization masters help you around this if the dagger path appeals to you
Kuroi Kenshi
10-31-05, 11:53 PM You probably won't need to use human paragon unless you want to be a partial skillmonkey and/or you want to make a gish. How about some MAD builds since, well, he's got plenty of nice stats?

OH, oh, what about PhaedrusXY's iaijutsu master build? That thing rocks and has some MAD. Of course, we don't know what books you can use other than UA -_-

Are you really limited to only using the warrior class, or can you use books other than UA?
Blade2718
11-01-05, 12:15 AM Its the generic Warrior class, which lets him access many, many different class abilities. I second the battlefield controller recommendation. Use a spiked chain, and trip everything in reach.
Sieylianna
11-01-05, 07:19 AM I need to hold my own with a Centaur Barbarian, a Drow Wizard, and a Nymph Cleric,

IIRC, a nymph is six hit dice and a +7 level adjustment. You're not going to hold your own with that for a long time. Of course, she really should have gone druid instead of cleric because a nymph has 7 (?) druid levels.

Ed
Parrex
11-01-05, 12:43 PM I'm limiting myself to the Human Warrior, I'm willing to multi-class though, to say monks, rogues, related PrC's.

I did roll those scores, my party hates it, but they put up with it because I'm a "puny human". 5d6 drop the lowest two, if you roll an average of 12 or lower, reroll all. They all rolled theres that way.

I can use the Unearthed Arcana, Players Handbook, DM's Guide I & II, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Complete Adventurer, Player's Guide to Faerun, Magic of Faerun, the Draconomicon (I Think), the Expanded Psionics Handbook, and Oriental Adventures (to some degree).

I believe the DM removed the Druid levels, the player really wanted a Cleric for the Turn Undead or something, the Nymph this big huge exile back story.

I like the idea of a spiked chain though, I'm avoiding spells, I'm looking forward to sneak attack, I have access to all martial weapons, but I need to take a feat to gain Heavy armor, or tower shield proficiency.

So far we have a powerhouse with speed, a battlemage type character, and a mind controlling healer, that likes to hide/move silently, my only trump is I level up faster.

Could somebody explain MAD please? :embarrass
Joklun
11-01-05, 12:54 PM Parrex MAD is Multiple Attributes Dependance, which means the build could be good but you need all stats high scores which is the case for that incredible roll you have.

Also Parrex, I just want to make perfectly sure, are you aware that "Warrior" and "Fighter" aren't the same thing. I mean the Figther is a class that pretty often used, but often only for 4 levels in a build for feats etc. But Warrior isnt a class that is commonly used, it might not be strong at the base /hint.

If what you are saying is you want a meleer, then its Figther you are looking for.
tsuyoshikentsu
11-01-05, 01:39 PM Oh fer G-d's... if you would just be a Halfling, you could have the Ubermount! You even have all the books and everything!
nihility
11-01-05, 02:22 PM Also Parrex, I just want to make perfectly sure, are you aware that "Warrior" and "Fighter" aren't the same thing. I mean the Figther is a class that pretty often used, but often only for 4 levels in a build for feats etc. But Warrior isnt a class that is commonly used, it might not be strong at the base /hint.

If what you are saying is you want a meleer, then its Figther you are looking for.
Please, please, can everyone please read the whole thread? We're talking about the warrior generic class found here (http://d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#warrior), which is similar to a fighter in spirit but differs sharply in that you can get things like sneak attack and evasion as feats. I agree that you can do better, but at least pay attention to what the OP means by "warrior."
Parrex
11-01-05, 06:11 PM sorry the whole UA Warrior vs DMG Warrior vs. PHB Fighter thing is so confusing, I just wanted to point out that I have that kind of leeway, I can multiclass, but every level in warrior gives me access to special abilities.

Thanks for the definition of MAD, how can I optimize that. Kepp in mind that my DM will allow me to move stats around, but I can't go above 18 unless I have a racial bonus to the stat I have above 18 in for instance, I could take a point from Wisdom to put into Intelligence to make them both 16, but as a human I can only have a max of 18 in anything, why am I explaining this to you guys, you already know this.

I realize these are phenomenal stats, so if you guys think I should branch, out tell me how I can make the most of these stats, without taking Hound Archon as my Base Race. Thou art wiser than I.

I can swallow my pride, its foolish to waste these stats, I can prove my point some other time. I just thought this was the best opportunity to prove it.
Kuroi Kenshi
11-01-05, 07:16 PM Ok, here are some ideas. If only you could use unapproachable east... :D

High attack rate tripper tank:
Generic Expert2/Human Paragon3/Generic Warrior2/Monk2/Fighter2/Blackguard4/Hexblade3/Paladin of Tyranny2
Spread out the generic levels for when you want to get sneak attack upgrades and whatever else.

Cha to saves 3 times, cha to damage and AC if desired (divine might, divine shield feats), evasion, mettle, a possible sneak attack of +10d6 (if you select it with bonus feats), 1 free generic bonus feat, 4 bonus feats, monk feats, great skill selection, +2 to a stat of your choice. You could TWF with armor spikes and a spiked chain, then later get an animated shield and power it up with divine shield.

Holy Iaijutsu Assassinator:
Human Paragon2/Generic Warrior2/Fighter1/Swashbuckler3/Iaijutsu Master5/Blackguard3/Generic Expert2/Paladin of Tyranny2
Take the second generic warrior level after finishing the IM prestige class. Take evasion with the second Generic Expert level.

Pick Iaijutsu focus as one of your class skills with human paragon, and keep it maxed every level. Get sneak attack with your generic levels. You get INT to AC (and can get it applied again if you use a monk's belt and are allowed to use the kung fu genius feat), INT to damage, CHA to each of your iaijutsu focus damage dice, CHA to damage (divine might), CHA to initiative, and CHA to saves twice. You also get evasion, sneak attack +9d6, and 5 bonus feats (counting swash1 and human racial feat).

So you have a damage potential of 9d6 + 9d6 + CHA * 9 + CHA + weapon damage + INT + STR (per hit if you feel like carrying 4 katanas and get initiative/suprise round).

Other skills to pick would be bluff, hide, and move silently, for obvious reasons. Improved feint wouldn't be a bad feat to get either.

One variation on the above build that is slightly more offensive, as you can get feint and get 2 attacks a round with the level 8 IM ability.
Human Paragon2/Generic Warrior2/Fighter1/Swashbuckler3/Iaijutsu Master10/Generic Expert2
Aramas
11-01-05, 07:49 PM Since you can move stats around let's do that first.

Str 18
Dex 18
Con 18
Int 16
Wis 18
Cha 16

Next, as a Generic Warrior you get to choose six skills as class skills.

Hide and Move Silently (so you can choose sneak attack)
Spot and Listen (So you aren't caught off guard)
Tumble and Use Magic Device (two of the best skills in the game)

Now, you can keep all six of these skills maxed each level.

Depending on your own preferences you should choose either Fortitude or Will to be your good save.

I'd also recommend picking up two levels of generic expert to gain a +3 boost to whichever two saves you pick to be your weak ones. This will also net you increased skill ranks for those levels. Thus, I would choose Expert as my first level and then go into Warrior. You can pick up the other level of expert whenever you feel that your skills need a boost.
nihility
11-01-05, 08:37 PM I'd also recommend picking up two levels of generic expert to gain a +3 boost to whichever two saves you pick to be your weak ones. This will also net you increased skill ranks for those levels. Thus, I would choose Expert as my first level and then go into Warrior. You can pick up the other level of expert whenever you feel that your skills need a boost.
Given how flexible the bonus feats are, I'd agree with this.
SwollenOstrich
11-01-05, 09:30 PM I love it when people say they roll 4 18s for stats. It makes me laugh.
nihility
11-01-05, 10:03 PM I love it when people say they roll 4 18s for stats. It makes me laugh. Interesting. Do you find statistical anomolies humorous in general? If so, have you heard the one about the guy with 1.5 million descendents? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4396246.stm)
fnord
11-01-05, 11:04 PM I love it when people say they roll 4 18s for stats. It makes me laugh.
Well, he said he rolled 5d6, drop 2 lowest. To get an 18, he needs to succeed 3 times in 5 with a 1 in 6 probability. That's about a 3% chance of an 18. 4 18s in 6 would be 1/2000. Assuming a single complete roll replaced, it goes to 1/1000. Slim, but not impossible. Remember, as to paraphrase Neil Gaiman, million to one chances happen to six thousand people everyday.
Parrex
11-02-05, 11:54 AM You guys seriously know how to optimize, I'm going to have to move some things around and rewrite my backstory, but I think I'm going to go with the High Attack Rate Tripper Tank.

Also another DM is starting another campaign with the ability point system you start with 30 points to be divided among abilities as you choose, how can I make the best of that, something similar to the fighter class again, I won't be holding my own alongside monsters, but this board is way to good a resource.

Thanks Again.
Kuroi Kenshi
11-02-05, 01:27 PM Oh, and if you want feat advice for the tripper, check snow savant's gatling chaingun tripper on the 3.5 build FAQ (it's a sticky thread), and just modify the feats to deal with the lower amount of bonus feats and not being able to use the minis handbook.

For pointbuy, mommy was an orc made a post on the best 28 pointbuy distributions here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=464073). I'm sure you can work off of that. I think a decent stat distribution would be like 16 15 14 14 8 8 or 16 14 14 14 10 8

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Parrex 10-31-05, 01:44 PM	I'm a Human Warrior, determined to prove to my party, that you don't need a level adjustment or spells to whoop-***, but I might need a little help. Suggestions? I'm allowed to use the Warrior, and Unearthed Arcana, in order to gain access to track, sneak attack, evasion, high reflex or will instead of fortitude, flaws, traits... etc, I don't want to use bloodlines, but maybe the human paragon... also I rolled 18, 18, 18, 15, 17, 18 right in front of my party, so they can't contest it. I can choose any six class skills, plus craft. I need to hold my own with a Centaur Barbarian, a Drow Wizard, and a Nymph Cleric,
tsuyoshikentsu 10-31-05, 01:56 PM	First off, I REALLY hope you don't mean the NPC class Warrior, because then you're basically screwed. Second, do you have to be a fighter? It'd be a lot easier to be, say, a monk and do cool things than a fighter. I was just having this problem with my fighter in my game last night -- she really wants to be cool, but she's having trouble with the fact that with her feat choices, all she can do is swing a sword. (And swing it for literally twice as much damage as anyone else in the party, but that's kind of overlooked in favor of the monk jumping off walls and the druid throwing fire and summoning things. But I digress.) The point is, IMO, if you're trying to show off what a human can do, fighter isn't a great choice. (In fact, I wouldn't recommend human if your only reqorements are base race and no LA unless it was a gestalt campaign. I'd go halfling for supermount to make the centaur horsey look stupid.)
deathwishjoe 10-31-05, 02:04 PM	IMO the fighter is really only good for a few splashes of here or there to add more feats to one of the other fighter types like barbarian or monk. I really like humans for the bonus feat but if strong heart halfling is available it would probably be a better choice as you get quite a bit more for the cost of 1 skill point per level.
rilem 10-31-05, 02:07 PM	He's using the Generic Warrior, a optional ruleset from Unearthed Arcana, which lets you pick up odd class abilities. It's really not appropriate in this case, as I believe the generic rules say you shouldn't mix generics with non-generics. Regardless, I think you can get what you want without resorting to the generic rules. What function are you looking to fill? What books are allowed? What's the starting level? Based on your party, you've got a hard-hitter and two casters (cleric is most likely a non-combat version). So a battlefield controller is probably a good option, perhaps with some rogue levels.
Ske 10-31-05, 02:16 PM	18, 18, 18, 18, 17, 15? 10d6, drop 7 lowest?
g23armani 10-31-05, 02:31 PM	18, 18, 18, 18, 17, 15? 10d6, drop 7 lowest? Wow, the odds of rolling stats like that are are somewhere around 1/100,000,000.
fnord 10-31-05, 04:58 PM	I need to hold my own with a Centaur Barbarian, a Drow Wizard, and a Nymph Cleric, Um... wow, spellcasters with LA. They'll pay for that later. Do you have to use Warrior? You'll probably be better off using normal classes classes. Perhaps: Human Wolf Totem Barbarian 1: Power Attack, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Combat Reflexes, Flaw: Pathetic Fortitude, Flaw: Shaky Barb 1/Fighter 1: EWP Spiked Chain Barb 2/Fighter 1: Destructive Rage Barb 2/Fighter 2: Improved Bull Rush, Improved Trip Barb 3/Fighter 2: Barb 4/Fighter 2: Righteous Wrath Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 1: Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 2: Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 3: Shock Trooper Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 4: Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 5: Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 6: Ancestral Relic Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 6/Anointed Knight 1: Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 7/Anointed Knight 1: Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 8/Anointed Knight 1: Jump Attack Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 9/Anointed Knight 1: Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 10/Anointed Knight 1: Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 10/Anointed Knight 1/Human Paragon 1: Mage-Slayer Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 10/Anointed Knight 1/Human Paragon 2: Barb 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berzerker 10/Anointed Knight 1/Human Paragon 3: Pierce Magical Protection If you don't mind a little bit of magical ability, substitute Anointed Knight and Human Paragon for Heir of Syberis.
Llochlyn 10-31-05, 06:15 PM	Like the odds of rolling everything under 7 are :) wich happened to me once :rolleyes: You have access to sneak attacks and a plenty of feats to make it even more powerful, you want to use sneak attacks as much as you can... So try to get a lot of attacks with those feats... without being to much overpowered (read without having 846 attacks a turn) a TWF dagger thrower can work pretty well... You have to work to get ranged flanking, wich invisible blade or master thrower (don't remember wich) can offer you, and can work with 3 attacks a round at level 2, and top at 8 attacks (4 normal, 3 from TWF, 1 for rapid shot) Certainly are other ways to improve this further, but I let optimization masters help you around this if the dagger path appeals to you
Kuroi Kenshi 10-31-05, 11:53 PM	You probably won't need to use human paragon unless you want to be a partial skillmonkey and/or you want to make a gish. How about some MAD builds since, well, he's got plenty of nice stats? OH, oh, what about PhaedrusXY's iaijutsu master build? That thing rocks and has some MAD. Of course, we don't know what books you can use other than UA -_- Are you really limited to only using the warrior class, or can you use books other than UA?
Blade2718 11-01-05, 12:15 AM	Its the generic Warrior class, which lets him access many, many different class abilities. I second the battlefield controller recommendation. Use a spiked chain, and trip everything in reach.
Sieylianna 11-01-05, 07:19 AM	I need to hold my own with a Centaur Barbarian, a Drow Wizard, and a Nymph Cleric, IIRC, a nymph is six hit dice and a +7 level adjustment. You're not going to hold your own with that for a long time. Of course, she really should have gone druid instead of cleric because a nymph has 7 (?) druid levels. Ed
Parrex 11-01-05, 12:43 PM	I'm limiting myself to the Human Warrior, I'm willing to multi-class though, to say monks, rogues, related PrC's. I did roll those scores, my party hates it, but they put up with it because I'm a "puny human". 5d6 drop the lowest two, if you roll an average of 12 or lower, reroll all. They all rolled theres that way. I can use the Unearthed Arcana, Players Handbook, DM's Guide I & II, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Complete Adventurer, Player's Guide to Faerun, Magic of Faerun, the Draconomicon (I Think), the Expanded Psionics Handbook, and Oriental Adventures (to some degree). I believe the DM removed the Druid levels, the player really wanted a Cleric for the Turn Undead or something, the Nymph this big huge exile back story. I like the idea of a spiked chain though, I'm avoiding spells, I'm looking forward to sneak attack, I have access to all martial weapons, but I need to take a feat to gain Heavy armor, or tower shield proficiency. So far we have a powerhouse with speed, a battlemage type character, and a mind controlling healer, that likes to hide/move silently, my only trump is I level up faster. Could somebody explain MAD please? :embarrass
Joklun 11-01-05, 12:54 PM	Parrex MAD is Multiple Attributes Dependance, which means the build could be good but you need all stats high scores which is the case for that incredible roll you have. Also Parrex, I just want to make perfectly sure, are you aware that "Warrior" and "Fighter" aren't the same thing. I mean the Figther is a class that pretty often used, but often only for 4 levels in a build for feats etc. But Warrior isnt a class that is commonly used, it might not be strong at the base /hint. If what you are saying is you want a meleer, then its Figther you are looking for.
tsuyoshikentsu 11-01-05, 01:39 PM	Oh fer G-d's... if you would just be a Halfling, you could have the Ubermount! You even have all the books and everything!
nihility 11-01-05, 02:22 PM	Also Parrex, I just want to make perfectly sure, are you aware that "Warrior" and "Fighter" aren't the same thing. I mean the Figther is a class that pretty often used, but often only for 4 levels in a build for feats etc. But Warrior isnt a class that is commonly used, it might not be strong at the base /hint. If what you are saying is you want a meleer, then its Figther you are looking for. Please, please, can everyone please read the whole thread? We're talking about the warrior generic class found here (http://d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#warrior), which is similar to a fighter in spirit but differs sharply in that you can get things like sneak attack and evasion as feats. I agree that you can do better, but at least pay attention to what the OP means by "warrior."
Parrex 11-01-05, 06:11 PM	sorry the whole UA Warrior vs DMG Warrior vs. PHB Fighter thing is so confusing, I just wanted to point out that I have that kind of leeway, I can multiclass, but every level in warrior gives me access to special abilities. Thanks for the definition of MAD, how can I optimize that. Kepp in mind that my DM will allow me to move stats around, but I can't go above 18 unless I have a racial bonus to the stat I have above 18 in for instance, I could take a point from Wisdom to put into Intelligence to make them both 16, but as a human I can only have a max of 18 in anything, why am I explaining this to you guys, you already know this. I realize these are phenomenal stats, so if you guys think I should branch, out tell me how I can make the most of these stats, without taking Hound Archon as my Base Race. Thou art wiser than I. I can swallow my pride, its foolish to waste these stats, I can prove my point some other time. I just thought this was the best opportunity to prove it.
Kuroi Kenshi 11-01-05, 07:16 PM	Ok, here are some ideas. If only you could use unapproachable east... :D High attack rate tripper tank: Generic Expert2/Human Paragon3/Generic Warrior2/Monk2/Fighter2/Blackguard4/Hexblade3/Paladin of Tyranny2 Spread out the generic levels for when you want to get sneak attack upgrades and whatever else. Cha to saves 3 times, cha to damage and AC if desired (divine might, divine shield feats), evasion, mettle, a possible sneak attack of +10d6 (if you select it with bonus feats), 1 free generic bonus feat, 4 bonus feats, monk feats, great skill selection, +2 to a stat of your choice. You could TWF with armor spikes and a spiked chain, then later get an animated shield and power it up with divine shield. Holy Iaijutsu Assassinator: Human Paragon2/Generic Warrior2/Fighter1/Swashbuckler3/Iaijutsu Master5/Blackguard3/Generic Expert2/Paladin of Tyranny2 Take the second generic warrior level after finishing the IM prestige class. Take evasion with the second Generic Expert level. Pick Iaijutsu focus as one of your class skills with human paragon, and keep it maxed every level. Get sneak attack with your generic levels. You get INT to AC (and can get it applied again if you use a monk's belt and are allowed to use the kung fu genius feat), INT to damage, CHA to each of your iaijutsu focus damage dice, CHA to damage (divine might), CHA to initiative, and CHA to saves twice. You also get evasion, sneak attack +9d6, and 5 bonus feats (counting swash1 and human racial feat). So you have a damage potential of 9d6 + 9d6 + CHA * 9 + CHA + weapon damage + INT + STR (per hit if you feel like carrying 4 katanas and get initiative/suprise round). Other skills to pick would be bluff, hide, and move silently, for obvious reasons. Improved feint wouldn't be a bad feat to get either. One variation on the above build that is slightly more offensive, as you can get feint and get 2 attacks a round with the level 8 IM ability. Human Paragon2/Generic Warrior2/Fighter1/Swashbuckler3/Iaijutsu Master10/Generic Expert2
Aramas 11-01-05, 07:49 PM	Since you can move stats around let's do that first. Str 18 Dex 18 Con 18 Int 16 Wis 18 Cha 16 Next, as a Generic Warrior you get to choose six skills as class skills. Hide and Move Silently (so you can choose sneak attack) Spot and Listen (So you aren't caught off guard) Tumble and Use Magic Device (two of the best skills in the game) Now, you can keep all six of these skills maxed each level. Depending on your own preferences you should choose either Fortitude or Will to be your good save. I'd also recommend picking up two levels of generic expert to gain a +3 boost to whichever two saves you pick to be your weak ones. This will also net you increased skill ranks for those levels. Thus, I would choose Expert as my first level and then go into Warrior. You can pick up the other level of expert whenever you feel that your skills need a boost.
nihility 11-01-05, 08:37 PM	I'd also recommend picking up two levels of generic expert to gain a +3 boost to whichever two saves you pick to be your weak ones. This will also net you increased skill ranks for those levels. Thus, I would choose Expert as my first level and then go into Warrior. You can pick up the other level of expert whenever you feel that your skills need a boost. Given how flexible the bonus feats are, I'd agree with this.
SwollenOstrich 11-01-05, 09:30 PM	I love it when people say they roll 4 18s for stats. It makes me laugh.
nihility 11-01-05, 10:03 PM	I love it when people say they roll 4 18s for stats. It makes me laugh. Interesting. Do you find statistical anomolies humorous in general? If so, have you heard the one about the guy with 1.5 million descendents? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4396246.stm)
fnord 11-01-05, 11:04 PM	I love it when people say they roll 4 18s for stats. It makes me laugh. Well, he said he rolled 5d6, drop 2 lowest. To get an 18, he needs to succeed 3 times in 5 with a 1 in 6 probability. That's about a 3% chance of an 18. 4 18s in 6 would be 1/2000. Assuming a single complete roll replaced, it goes to 1/1000. Slim, but not impossible. Remember, as to paraphrase Neil Gaiman, million to one chances happen to six thousand people everyday.
Parrex 11-02-05, 11:54 AM	You guys seriously know how to optimize, I'm going to have to move some things around and rewrite my backstory, but I think I'm going to go with the High Attack Rate Tripper Tank. Also another DM is starting another campaign with the ability point system you start with 30 points to be divided among abilities as you choose, how can I make the best of that, something similar to the fighter class again, I won't be holding my own alongside monsters, but this board is way to good a resource. Thanks Again.
Kuroi Kenshi 11-02-05, 01:27 PM	Oh, and if you want feat advice for the tripper, check snow savant's gatling chaingun tripper on the 3.5 build FAQ (it's a sticky thread), and just modify the feats to deal with the lower amount of bonus feats and not being able to use the minis handbook. For pointbuy, mommy was an orc made a post on the best 28 pointbuy distributions here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=464073). I'm sure you can work off of that. I think a decent stat distribution would be like 16 15 14 14 8 8 or 16 14 14 14 10 8