Blade Bravo from Races of Stone with Invisible Blade? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blade Bravo from Races of Stone with Invisible Blade? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FilthySanchez
09-14-04, 09:50 PM The two classes seem to synergize pretty well. Anyone have any builds using these 2 together?
RadicalTaoist
09-14-04, 10:03 PM Love to help you but I don't have RoS so I have no idea what Blade Bravo does.
FilthySanchez
09-14-04, 10:26 PM Ok, here goes.
Race is still up in the air. Something small with a dex bonus.

01: Rogue [Weapon Finesse]
02: Fighter [Weapon Focus (Kukri)]
03: Fighter [Point Blank Shot]
04: Rogue [Far Shot]
05: Rogue
06: Invisible blade [TWF]
07: Invisible blade
08: Invisible blade
09: Invisible blade [Imp TWF]
10: Invisible blade
11: Blade Bravo
12: Blade Bravo [Gr TWF]
13: Blade Bravo [Bonus Feat]
14: Blade Bravo
15: Blade Bravo [Imp Critical Kukri]
16: Blade Bravo [Bonus Feat]
17: Blade Bravo
18: Blade Bravo [feat]
19: Blade Bravo [Bonus Feat]
20: Blade Bravo

Build Ends up with the following:

BaB 19
Saves Fort 8 Reflex 14 Will 5
SA 7D6
Feint as a free action with +10 to bluff check
+1 Dodge bonus as long as you move 5' or more in your turn
+2 Dodge bonus for every size difference between you and opponent
+4 to confirm criticals on opponents large than you
Get 1 free AoO against any opponent that tries to hit you and misses each
round.
PhoenixInferno
09-14-04, 10:35 PM I suggest you remove that quickly. Code of Conduct and all.
RadicalTaoist
09-14-04, 10:43 PM ?
Did I miss something?
PhoenixInferno
09-14-04, 11:14 PM Possible copyright infringement issues. Seriously, you should take it down.
RadicalTaoist
09-14-04, 11:19 PM Jeez, no need to break the law, just tell me what the PrC does....

edited to remove the need of another post: 4 CRYING OUT LOUD SOME1 TELL ME WHAT THE :censored: PrC DOES ALREADY!
PhoenixInferno
09-14-04, 11:21 PM Not you, RadicalTaoist - FilthySanchez.
Snicker-Snack
09-14-04, 11:21 PM Seriously, you should take it down.

He did it already.. about 20 minutes before you posted your message :).
Blade2718
09-14-04, 11:23 PM Actually, 20 minutes AFTER. Check the edit time, not the post time.
Snicker-Snack
09-14-04, 11:25 PM Actually, 20 minutes AFTER

I meant the second message, the one that i quoted :).
RadicalTaoist
09-14-04, 11:33 PM .......god dammit......:nonono:
Razorblade Smile
09-15-04, 01:00 AM Is the Blade Bravo supposed to be the reincarnation of the Blade kit from 2nd Edition?
Blade2718
09-15-04, 01:11 AM No, don't think so. As I recall (which could be extremely faulty), Blades had dances that let you get extra attacks or improve your AC. The Blade Bravo doesn't seem to fit the offensive portion of the kit.
FilthySanchez
09-15-04, 08:15 AM Ok hopefully this won't be considered copyright infringement...

Blade Bravo is a PrC from Races of Stone.

It's key features are full BaB progression, Good Reflex progression, poor fort and will progression. The class revolves around using your small size to gain an advantage over larger opponents.

It's main abilities are a bonus to bluff skill, added sneak attack dice, a bonus to AC due to size difference between you and your opponent and a bonus to critical confirmations against larger opponents.
handforged
09-15-04, 09:36 PM For race, you have to be a gnome to be a blade bravo. Whisper gnome would be nice other than the CHA penalty, but that -1 to bluff checks is probably balanced by all the rest of the stuff. Fitting Swashbuckler 3 into the build for INT synergy would be nice.

~hf

edit: I just noticed that you don't qualify for Blade Bravo because it requires Weapon Focus(rapier). Without a house rule, this pretty much prevents synergy between these two classes.
Zubon
09-15-04, 10:25 PM They still have synergy, you just need to waste a feat on the extra Weapon Focus. All of the abilities work with all melee weapons. Alternately, since Blade Bravo gives three bonus feats, use Two Weapon Fighting with a rapier and a dagger.

Just as a quick thought, Gnome Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5/Blade Bravo 10 could be interesting, with +6d6 SA on a melee dagger, +4d6 SA on a thrown dagger, and +3d6 SA with any other melee weapon, along with the entire TWF tree free from Bravo. Feint as a free action with +10 from Bravo, Evasion, Trapfinding (not enough Sneak/Disable as class skills, though), and a few other bonuses.
Zubon
09-15-04, 10:46 PM Let's sketch that character out. For my convenience, I'm going to assume 19 Dex, 16 Int, 16 Cha at level 20; use whatever rolling/buying method you use in your campaign.

Whisper Gnome Rogue 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Invisible Blade 5 / Blade Bravo 10
BAB +19
base saves: F +7, R +15, W +5 (ouch there)
small (+1 AC/attack, +4 on Hide)
30' move
Low-light vision, Darkvision
Weapon Familiarity (Gnome hooked hammer)
+1 attack vs goblinoids, kobolds
+4 AC vs giants
+4 on Hide/Move Silently
+2 on Listen/Spot
1/day: Silence, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Message
Weapon Finesse (B), Goad (B) +2 DC, 3 bonus feats (TWF, ITWF, GTWF)
Sneak attack +1d6, Dagger sneak attack +3d6, Melee sneak attack +2d6, Bleeding wound (trade SA for wounding)
Uncanny feint (free action), Feint mastery, Flourish
Insightful Strike, Small But Deadly, Lethal Riposte
Trapfinding
Evasion, Grace +1
Unfettered defense, Mobile Fighting, Size Advantage

Not a bad little suite of abilities. Using http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147421, the only feats we must commit are Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus (one of three daggers), and Weapon Focus (Rapier). That leaves four free feats and a bunch of skill points to customize. Also, since we are going melee, I would recommend WF (Kukri) over WF (Dagger). Dual kukris with attacks at +17/+17/+12/+12/+7/+7/+2 after TWF, add Dex to AC and attack, and Int to AC and damage, feint for free at +10 and get +6d6 SA.
FilthySanchez
09-15-04, 11:08 PM If you take Karmic strike and the 2 weapon AoO feat you'll get the ability to hit at least an additional 2 times in each round. Karmic strike if they hit you, lethal riposte if they miss you. Get a free main hand and a free off-hand attack each round.
Furdaddy
09-16-04, 01:27 PM Let's sketch that character out. For my convenience, I'm going to assume 19 Dex, 16 Int, 16 Cha at level 20; use whatever rolling/buying method you use in your campaign.

Whisper Gnome Rogue 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Invisible Blade 5 / Blade Bravo 10

Swashbuckler is a great idea, but this build doesn't work. You need 3 feats to qualify for IB (Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot and Far Shot), and you only have two by 5th level.

I'd suggest,
Rogue 3 / Fighter 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / IB 5 / BB 10

Or, take a divine angle and choose a diety with the War domain and favored weapon dagger or kukri (not sure there is such a god, as dagger isn't very warlike),
Rogue 3 / Cleric 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / IB 5 / BB 10
DanteHayes
09-16-04, 01:56 PM Swashbuckler is a great idea, but this build doesn't work. You need 3 feats to qualify for IB (Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot and Far Shot), and you only have two by 5th level.

I'd suggest,
Rogue 3 / Fighter 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / IB 5 / BB 10

Or, take a divine angle and choose a diety with the War domain and favored weapon dagger or kukri (not sure there is such a god, as dagger isn't very warlike),
Rogue 3 / Cleric 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / IB 5 / BB 10

It does but, you have to take Blade Bravo first with Combat Expertise and WF: Rapier at 1st and 3rd levels and then qualify for IB by 13th with it's requirements at 6th, 9th and 12th. Possibly not ideal but...functional.

D_H
FarKadeNear
09-16-04, 02:03 PM Swash3/ftr2 works well I have found.
Furdaddy
09-16-04, 02:03 PM It does but, you have to take Blade Bravo first with Combat Expertise and WF: Rapier at 1st and 3rd levels and then qualify for IB by 13th with it's requirements at 6th, 9th and 12th. Possibly not ideal but...functional.

D_H
Good point, I was thinking in terms of taking the levels in the order listed. Personally, I'd rather finish one of the PrCs before starting the other to get to one of the terrific keystone abilities ASAP, most likely IB first. But, maybe staggering would be worthwhile, I'd have to do a detailed review of all the specials of both classes to be sure.
Zubon
09-16-04, 08:50 PM I should explain http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147421. The original author of the Invisible Blade PrC recommends different pre-requisites for the class. The first post from Sonofapreacherman explains this. The prereqs would be Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus, which you do have enough feats to do.

I don't imagine every campaign would take that advice, but the two thrown dagger feats don't necessarily make a lot of sense in the re-done PrC.
Furdaddy
09-16-04, 08:59 PM I should explain http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147421. The original author of the Invisible Blade PrC recommends different pre-requisites for the class. The first post from Sonofapreacherman explains this. The prereqs would be Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus, which you do have enough feats to do.

I don't imagine every campaign would take that advice, but the two thrown dagger feats don't necessarily make a lot of sense in the re-done PrC.
Yeah, I've seen that thread and wholeheartedly agree. But, it is a houserule situation.

BTW, your link is bad (presumably due to the boards upgrade).
Zubon
09-16-04, 09:04 PM Odd, it worked yesterday, and my bookmark still works...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FilthySanchez 09-14-04, 09:50 PM	The two classes seem to synergize pretty well. Anyone have any builds using these 2 together?
RadicalTaoist 09-14-04, 10:03 PM	Love to help you but I don't have RoS so I have no idea what Blade Bravo does.
FilthySanchez 09-14-04, 10:26 PM	Ok, here goes. Race is still up in the air. Something small with a dex bonus. 01: Rogue [Weapon Finesse] 02: Fighter [Weapon Focus (Kukri)] 03: Fighter [Point Blank Shot] 04: Rogue [Far Shot] 05: Rogue 06: Invisible blade [TWF] 07: Invisible blade 08: Invisible blade 09: Invisible blade [Imp TWF] 10: Invisible blade 11: Blade Bravo 12: Blade Bravo [Gr TWF] 13: Blade Bravo [Bonus Feat] 14: Blade Bravo 15: Blade Bravo [Imp Critical Kukri] 16: Blade Bravo [Bonus Feat] 17: Blade Bravo 18: Blade Bravo [feat] 19: Blade Bravo [Bonus Feat] 20: Blade Bravo Build Ends up with the following: BaB 19 Saves Fort 8 Reflex 14 Will 5 SA 7D6 Feint as a free action with +10 to bluff check +1 Dodge bonus as long as you move 5' or more in your turn +2 Dodge bonus for every size difference between you and opponent +4 to confirm criticals on opponents large than you Get 1 free AoO against any opponent that tries to hit you and misses each round.
PhoenixInferno 09-14-04, 10:35 PM	I suggest you remove that quickly. Code of Conduct and all.
RadicalTaoist 09-14-04, 10:43 PM	? Did I miss something?
PhoenixInferno 09-14-04, 11:14 PM	Possible copyright infringement issues. Seriously, you should take it down.
RadicalTaoist 09-14-04, 11:19 PM	Jeez, no need to break the law, just tell me what the PrC does.... edited to remove the need of another post: 4 CRYING OUT LOUD SOME1 TELL ME WHAT THE :censored: PrC DOES ALREADY!
PhoenixInferno 09-14-04, 11:21 PM	Not you, RadicalTaoist - FilthySanchez.
Snicker-Snack 09-14-04, 11:21 PM	Seriously, you should take it down. He did it already.. about 20 minutes before you posted your message :).
Blade2718 09-14-04, 11:23 PM	Actually, 20 minutes AFTER. Check the edit time, not the post time.
Snicker-Snack 09-14-04, 11:25 PM	Actually, 20 minutes AFTER I meant the second message, the one that i quoted :).
RadicalTaoist 09-14-04, 11:33 PM	.......god dammit......:nonono:
Razorblade Smile 09-15-04, 01:00 AM	Is the Blade Bravo supposed to be the reincarnation of the Blade kit from 2nd Edition?
Blade2718 09-15-04, 01:11 AM	No, don't think so. As I recall (which could be extremely faulty), Blades had dances that let you get extra attacks or improve your AC. The Blade Bravo doesn't seem to fit the offensive portion of the kit.
FilthySanchez 09-15-04, 08:15 AM	Ok hopefully this won't be considered copyright infringement... Blade Bravo is a PrC from Races of Stone. It's key features are full BaB progression, Good Reflex progression, poor fort and will progression. The class revolves around using your small size to gain an advantage over larger opponents. It's main abilities are a bonus to bluff skill, added sneak attack dice, a bonus to AC due to size difference between you and your opponent and a bonus to critical confirmations against larger opponents.
handforged 09-15-04, 09:36 PM	For race, you have to be a gnome to be a blade bravo. Whisper gnome would be nice other than the CHA penalty, but that -1 to bluff checks is probably balanced by all the rest of the stuff. Fitting Swashbuckler 3 into the build for INT synergy would be nice. ~hf edit: I just noticed that you don't qualify for Blade Bravo because it requires Weapon Focus(rapier). Without a house rule, this pretty much prevents synergy between these two classes.
Zubon 09-15-04, 10:25 PM	They still have synergy, you just need to waste a feat on the extra Weapon Focus. All of the abilities work with all melee weapons. Alternately, since Blade Bravo gives three bonus feats, use Two Weapon Fighting with a rapier and a dagger. Just as a quick thought, Gnome Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5/Blade Bravo 10 could be interesting, with +6d6 SA on a melee dagger, +4d6 SA on a thrown dagger, and +3d6 SA with any other melee weapon, along with the entire TWF tree free from Bravo. Feint as a free action with +10 from Bravo, Evasion, Trapfinding (not enough Sneak/Disable as class skills, though), and a few other bonuses.
Zubon 09-15-04, 10:46 PM	Let's sketch that character out. For my convenience, I'm going to assume 19 Dex, 16 Int, 16 Cha at level 20; use whatever rolling/buying method you use in your campaign. Whisper Gnome Rogue 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Invisible Blade 5 / Blade Bravo 10 BAB +19 base saves: F +7, R +15, W +5 (ouch there) small (+1 AC/attack, +4 on Hide) 30' move Low-light vision, Darkvision Weapon Familiarity (Gnome hooked hammer) +1 attack vs goblinoids, kobolds +4 AC vs giants +4 on Hide/Move Silently +2 on Listen/Spot 1/day: Silence, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Message Weapon Finesse (B), Goad (B) +2 DC, 3 bonus feats (TWF, ITWF, GTWF) Sneak attack +1d6, Dagger sneak attack +3d6, Melee sneak attack +2d6, Bleeding wound (trade SA for wounding) Uncanny feint (free action), Feint mastery, Flourish Insightful Strike, Small But Deadly, Lethal Riposte Trapfinding Evasion, Grace +1 Unfettered defense, Mobile Fighting, Size Advantage Not a bad little suite of abilities. Using http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147421, the only feats we must commit are Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus (one of three daggers), and Weapon Focus (Rapier). That leaves four free feats and a bunch of skill points to customize. Also, since we are going melee, I would recommend WF (Kukri) over WF (Dagger). Dual kukris with attacks at +17/+17/+12/+12/+7/+7/+2 after TWF, add Dex to AC and attack, and Int to AC and damage, feint for free at +10 and get +6d6 SA.
FilthySanchez 09-15-04, 11:08 PM	If you take Karmic strike and the 2 weapon AoO feat you'll get the ability to hit at least an additional 2 times in each round. Karmic strike if they hit you, lethal riposte if they miss you. Get a free main hand and a free off-hand attack each round.
Furdaddy 09-16-04, 01:27 PM	Let's sketch that character out. For my convenience, I'm going to assume 19 Dex, 16 Int, 16 Cha at level 20; use whatever rolling/buying method you use in your campaign. Whisper Gnome Rogue 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Invisible Blade 5 / Blade Bravo 10 Swashbuckler is a great idea, but this build doesn't work. You need 3 feats to qualify for IB (Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot and Far Shot), and you only have two by 5th level. I'd suggest, Rogue 3 / Fighter 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / IB 5 / BB 10 Or, take a divine angle and choose a diety with the War domain and favored weapon dagger or kukri (not sure there is such a god, as dagger isn't very warlike), Rogue 3 / Cleric 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / IB 5 / BB 10
DanteHayes 09-16-04, 01:56 PM	Swashbuckler is a great idea, but this build doesn't work. You need 3 feats to qualify for IB (Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot and Far Shot), and you only have two by 5th level. I'd suggest, Rogue 3 / Fighter 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / IB 5 / BB 10 Or, take a divine angle and choose a diety with the War domain and favored weapon dagger or kukri (not sure there is such a god, as dagger isn't very warlike), Rogue 3 / Cleric 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / IB 5 / BB 10 It does but, you have to take Blade Bravo first with Combat Expertise and WF: Rapier at 1st and 3rd levels and then qualify for IB by 13th with it's requirements at 6th, 9th and 12th. Possibly not ideal but...functional. D_H
FarKadeNear 09-16-04, 02:03 PM	Swash3/ftr2 works well I have found.
Furdaddy 09-16-04, 02:03 PM	It does but, you have to take Blade Bravo first with Combat Expertise and WF: Rapier at 1st and 3rd levels and then qualify for IB by 13th with it's requirements at 6th, 9th and 12th. Possibly not ideal but...functional. D_H Good point, I was thinking in terms of taking the levels in the order listed. Personally, I'd rather finish one of the PrCs before starting the other to get to one of the terrific keystone abilities ASAP, most likely IB first. But, maybe staggering would be worthwhile, I'd have to do a detailed review of all the specials of both classes to be sure.
Zubon 09-16-04, 08:50 PM	I should explain http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147421. The original author of the Invisible Blade PrC recommends different pre-requisites for the class. The first post from Sonofapreacherman explains this. The prereqs would be Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus, which you do have enough feats to do. I don't imagine every campaign would take that advice, but the two thrown dagger feats don't necessarily make a lot of sense in the re-done PrC.
Furdaddy 09-16-04, 08:59 PM	I should explain http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147421. The original author of the Invisible Blade PrC recommends different pre-requisites for the class. The first post from Sonofapreacherman explains this. The prereqs would be Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus, which you do have enough feats to do. I don't imagine every campaign would take that advice, but the two thrown dagger feats don't necessarily make a lot of sense in the re-done PrC. Yeah, I've seen that thread and wholeheartedly agree. But, it is a houserule situation. BTW, your link is bad (presumably due to the boards upgrade).
Zubon 09-16-04, 09:04 PM	Odd, it worked yesterday, and my bookmark still works...