Blade of Orien / Lots of Dragonmark feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blade of Orien / Lots of Dragonmark feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BMStroh
11-17-06, 10:05 AM I'm considering a new character, a Blade of Orien (from Dragonmarked) with a strong focus on dragonmarked abilities - probably some Dragonmarked Heir, and Duskblade as a lead-in to the two PrCs for some utility spells and buffs.

With abilities like dimensional leap, dimension door, both transposition spells from SpC, and the Blade of Orien abilities, I think it will provide some interesting tactical possibilities.

The drawback is that these classes offer very limited spellcasting ability, and the feats necessary to make the dragonmark abilities useful and interesting are feats not being spent improving combat ability.

I don't mind not being able to blow up buildings in a single bound, but I want the character to pull his own weight. With that in mind, with bouncing around the battlefield and/or moving enemies and allies around, there are probably some tactics and combos I'm not thinking of.

Othere characters include a druid, an archer, a sorceror and a melee specialist.

Any ways to make this useful, as well as an interesting theory?
DaveTheMagicWeasel
11-17-06, 10:08 AM I haven't seen the class, but it sounds like its tailor made for a Shadow Pouncer.

So throw in some Rogue levels for Sneak Attack and head for Telflammar Shadowlord.

Maybe a couple of Fighter levels in there as well to help with feats.

Another option is the Sun School tactical feat for a free unarmed attack everytime you use a Dim Door effect.
daota
11-17-06, 11:50 AM The earliest entry I can see is XXX 4/Heir 1/Blade of Orien 10.

You can skip Heir and still get Blade as your 7th level but you probably want to enter Blade of Orien as soon as possible so you can get to the higher level abilities sooner (such as the dimension leap+full attack at 10th). Taking Heir at 5th level gets you Lesser Dragonmark one level sooner than is otherwise possible.

lvl 1 Lesser Dragonmark, Orien Battle Stride
lvl 3 Favored In House
lvl 6 Dragonmark Prodigy

Spot, Listen, Search, Survival and Tumble are on the Blade skill list so some Rogue (for trapfinding) or Ranger (for track) might work well. Having some skills would compensate for lack of combat feats, since you'll want to use a bunch of those for dragonmark goodies. Rogue 1/Ranger 1/fighter 2 would get you trapfinding, 1d6 sneak attack, track, and two fighter bonus feats. It would tank your will save, but the level of Dragonmark Heir saves you a little from that.

Fair warning, I'm a char-op newbie. Double check anything I suggest :)
zarzak
11-17-06, 03:21 PM Doesn't Blade of Orien give you the heir bonuses anyways, so taking a level in heir would be redundant?
BMStroh
11-17-06, 03:57 PM Taking a level in DmH helps meet the pre-reqs for BoO. Otherwise, the feat requirements delay you by several levels - the Lesser Dragonmark has a skill rank requirement that DmH lets you ignore.

Thanks for the ideas so far, folks. It's appreciated.

I'm looking forward to swapping places around and dropping a bad guy right in front of our melee guy - instead of moving to attack, he can wait and do a full attack when the bad guy gets delivered. :)
aelryinth
11-17-06, 05:02 PM Doesn't Blade of Orien give you the heir bonuses anyways, so taking a level in heir would be redundant?

It gives you the Caster level bonuses of the HEir, but it doesn't give you the extra uses/day, or the Lesser and Greater marks that the Heir class does.

==+Aelryinth
ChristopherGroves
11-17-06, 05:05 PM Yeah and those extra uses are like gold.

Consider the Quicken Dragonmark feats ... swift action to reposition then full-attack. Bueno.
Chaotix42
11-17-06, 06:14 PM My idea exactly. I'm playing a very similar character in the new Expedition to Ravenloft. He's a fighter 2/Unearthed Arcana varient rogue 2 (gets fighter bonus feat progression in place of sneak attack)/dragonmark heir 1. Should be fun. :cool:
daota
11-17-06, 07:28 PM From the wording of the abilities, I don't think you can use a Quicken Dragonmark with dimension leap to trigger the full attack. It's quite specific about requirign the use the second-level "Swift Leap" to dimension leap as a move action.

It doesn't say if the full attack consumes any additional actions, so in theory you could make two leaps (and thus two full attacks) each turn. This is limited by your uses/day, but it does seem broken. Expect errata and/or house rule I guess (unless I'm interpreting it incorrectly).
ChristopherGroves
11-17-06, 09:59 PM Maybe I was confusing.

If you can leap as a swift action you can use that to reposition. Then you can use a normal full-attack action.
BMStroh
11-28-06, 01:15 PM I started to put some numbers around this. Although duskblade has full BAB, the number of useful spells a 4th level duskblade would have is somewhat negligible.

From a mobility standpoint, a Scout would be thematically appropriate, even if it does cost me a bit of BAB.

I pinged CustServ on the topic and got the following information:

Orien Battle Stride (5' step when opponents miss) coupled with a normal 5' step would seem to be enough to activate skirmish damage, assuming my initiative is lower than my opponent's. CustServ left that as a per-DM ruling.

Unfortunately, dimensional leap movement doesn't count for skirmish, though - just physical movement. That would have been handy.

So, a high AC Scout, so I'll get missed a lot, and some Blade of Orien. Just need to figure out the balance point between them, now.
Skilgannon
12-25-06, 10:39 AM Sorry to drag this thread back up, but I am looking to play a BoO relatively soonish and was wondering - considering the DC for transporting an enemy is based on their charisma, would it be worthwhile starting off with Paladin (or one of the variants) so you get Divine Grace/Aura of whatever and the Detect Evil at will?

The build I was looking at so far would probably be something like Fighter 1/Paladin 3/Dragonmarked Heir 1/Blade of Orien 10/Filler 5 (possibly something like Fist of Raziel depending on my eventual alignment).

How optimal would that be? Or would I be better digging out my Tome of Battle and subsitutiting Crusader or Warblade or the like instead for the first four levels? And yes I know they are the current flavour of the month - this is in spite of that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BMStroh 11-17-06, 10:05 AM	I'm considering a new character, a Blade of Orien (from Dragonmarked) with a strong focus on dragonmarked abilities - probably some Dragonmarked Heir, and Duskblade as a lead-in to the two PrCs for some utility spells and buffs. With abilities like dimensional leap, dimension door, both transposition spells from SpC, and the Blade of Orien abilities, I think it will provide some interesting tactical possibilities. The drawback is that these classes offer very limited spellcasting ability, and the feats necessary to make the dragonmark abilities useful and interesting are feats not being spent improving combat ability. I don't mind not being able to blow up buildings in a single bound, but I want the character to pull his own weight. With that in mind, with bouncing around the battlefield and/or moving enemies and allies around, there are probably some tactics and combos I'm not thinking of. Othere characters include a druid, an archer, a sorceror and a melee specialist. Any ways to make this useful, as well as an interesting theory?
DaveTheMagicWeasel 11-17-06, 10:08 AM	I haven't seen the class, but it sounds like its tailor made for a Shadow Pouncer. So throw in some Rogue levels for Sneak Attack and head for Telflammar Shadowlord. Maybe a couple of Fighter levels in there as well to help with feats. Another option is the Sun School tactical feat for a free unarmed attack everytime you use a Dim Door effect.
daota 11-17-06, 11:50 AM	The earliest entry I can see is XXX 4/Heir 1/Blade of Orien 10. You can skip Heir and still get Blade as your 7th level but you probably want to enter Blade of Orien as soon as possible so you can get to the higher level abilities sooner (such as the dimension leap+full attack at 10th). Taking Heir at 5th level gets you Lesser Dragonmark one level sooner than is otherwise possible. lvl 1 Lesser Dragonmark, Orien Battle Stride lvl 3 Favored In House lvl 6 Dragonmark Prodigy Spot, Listen, Search, Survival and Tumble are on the Blade skill list so some Rogue (for trapfinding) or Ranger (for track) might work well. Having some skills would compensate for lack of combat feats, since you'll want to use a bunch of those for dragonmark goodies. Rogue 1/Ranger 1/fighter 2 would get you trapfinding, 1d6 sneak attack, track, and two fighter bonus feats. It would tank your will save, but the level of Dragonmark Heir saves you a little from that. Fair warning, I'm a char-op newbie. Double check anything I suggest :)
zarzak 11-17-06, 03:21 PM	Doesn't Blade of Orien give you the heir bonuses anyways, so taking a level in heir would be redundant?
BMStroh 11-17-06, 03:57 PM	Taking a level in DmH helps meet the pre-reqs for BoO. Otherwise, the feat requirements delay you by several levels - the Lesser Dragonmark has a skill rank requirement that DmH lets you ignore. Thanks for the ideas so far, folks. It's appreciated. I'm looking forward to swapping places around and dropping a bad guy right in front of our melee guy - instead of moving to attack, he can wait and do a full attack when the bad guy gets delivered. :)
aelryinth 11-17-06, 05:02 PM	Doesn't Blade of Orien give you the heir bonuses anyways, so taking a level in heir would be redundant? It gives you the Caster level bonuses of the HEir, but it doesn't give you the extra uses/day, or the Lesser and Greater marks that the Heir class does. ==+Aelryinth
ChristopherGroves 11-17-06, 05:05 PM	Yeah and those extra uses are like gold. Consider the Quicken Dragonmark feats ... swift action to reposition then full-attack. Bueno.
Chaotix42 11-17-06, 06:14 PM	My idea exactly. I'm playing a very similar character in the new Expedition to Ravenloft. He's a fighter 2/Unearthed Arcana varient rogue 2 (gets fighter bonus feat progression in place of sneak attack)/dragonmark heir 1. Should be fun. :cool:
daota 11-17-06, 07:28 PM	From the wording of the abilities, I don't think you can use a Quicken Dragonmark with dimension leap to trigger the full attack. It's quite specific about requirign the use the second-level "Swift Leap" to dimension leap as a move action. It doesn't say if the full attack consumes any additional actions, so in theory you could make two leaps (and thus two full attacks) each turn. This is limited by your uses/day, but it does seem broken. Expect errata and/or house rule I guess (unless I'm interpreting it incorrectly).
ChristopherGroves 11-17-06, 09:59 PM	Maybe I was confusing. If you can leap as a swift action you can use that to reposition. Then you can use a normal full-attack action.
BMStroh 11-28-06, 01:15 PM	I started to put some numbers around this. Although duskblade has full BAB, the number of useful spells a 4th level duskblade would have is somewhat negligible. From a mobility standpoint, a Scout would be thematically appropriate, even if it does cost me a bit of BAB. I pinged CustServ on the topic and got the following information: Orien Battle Stride (5' step when opponents miss) coupled with a normal 5' step would seem to be enough to activate skirmish damage, assuming my initiative is lower than my opponent's. CustServ left that as a per-DM ruling. Unfortunately, dimensional leap movement doesn't count for skirmish, though - just physical movement. That would have been handy. So, a high AC Scout, so I'll get missed a lot, and some Blade of Orien. Just need to figure out the balance point between them, now.
Skilgannon 12-25-06, 10:39 AM	Sorry to drag this thread back up, but I am looking to play a BoO relatively soonish and was wondering - considering the DC for transporting an enemy is based on their charisma, would it be worthwhile starting off with Paladin (or one of the variants) so you get Divine Grace/Aura of whatever and the Detect Evil at will? The build I was looking at so far would probably be something like Fighter 1/Paladin 3/Dragonmarked Heir 1/Blade of Orien 10/Filler 5 (possibly something like Fist of Raziel depending on my eventual alignment). How optimal would that be? Or would I be better digging out my Tome of Battle and subsitutiting Crusader or Warblade or the like instead for the first four levels? And yes I know they are the current flavour of the month - this is in spite of that.