Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alakar 02-23-05, 01:24 PM	Ok, i have a build in mind for a blade singer. This is a concept character, a champion of the elves. I have of course in mind for hime to be a dex fighter, not a a str power huose. So this is what i had in mind. Here are the the stats: Str- 15 Dex-17 Con-15 Int- 17 con-11 cha-11 This is of course taking in the standard PHB elf stat adjustments. Here is the build i was looking at. swashbuckler 3, wizard 5, bladesinger 3, eldritch knight 9. I think it comes out to BAB 17, caster level 15, decent saves all around, i do not have my books in front of my so reflex saves may be lacking. The synergy with int to damage and up to three of it to ac. Of course i know this build could be better, that is alas why I am here. Any book is open, except exalted deeds and vile darkness. I know there are superior EK builds out there, but I would like to keed the swash buckler/ bladesinger flavor. Thanks you.
Dain 02-23-05, 01:44 PM	Taking only 3 levels of Bladesinger is silly. If you're going to spend all those feats qualifying for BS, then you better get some more bang for your buck. The optimal levels to exit Bladesinger are 5 and 10. Furthermore, you should quit Wizard at an even level - a level where you get both BAB and Caster Level. Anyway, here are my three favorite CW Bladesinger builds: "1. Grey-elf. Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Wizard 2/Bladesinger 10/ Spellsword 1/ Eldritch Knight 2 1: Swb 1: 2x Feat (Weapon finesse, weapon focus (rapier)). 2: Swb 1/Ftr 1: Feat (Improved initiative) 3: Swb 1/Ftr 2: 2x Feat (Dodge, combat expertise) 4: Swb 2/Ftr 2: Grace +1 5: Swb 3/Ftr 2: Insightful strike 6: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1: 2 x Feat (Scribe scroll, combat casting) 7: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/BS 1: Bladesong style 8: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 1: 9: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 2: Lesser spellsong, Feat (improved critical (rapier)) 10: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 3: 11: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 4: Song of Celerity (2nd) 12: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 5: Feat (improved toughness) 13: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 6: Greater spellsong 14: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 7: 15: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 8: Song of Celerity (4th), Feat (arcane strike) 16: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 9: 17: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 10: Song of Fury 18: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 10/SS 1: Feat (mobility) 19: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 10/SS 1/EK 1: Feat (spring attack) 20: Swb 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 2/BS 10/SS 1/EK 2: BAB 19, CL 9. While I am well aware that the caster level is unusually low for a gish, the force of this build is the fact that it’s relying on just one ability score for almost everything: intelligence. Intelligence adds to AC + damage (and the amount it adds to AC is not limited to 5 as it is in the other builds) and spells, obviously. HP dice, saves and BAB is all high – this combined with the very high AC and the fact that he gets ALL the bladesinger goodies makes this character quite competent in melee. Race should be grey-elf. The boost to intelligence is brilliant; it completely negates the hit on strength and it strengthens the character in a lot of other ways. 2. Half-elf. Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/Bladesinger 5/Eldritch Knight 8 1: Ftr 1: 2x Feat (weapon focus (longsword), improved initiative) 2: Ftr 2: Feat (dodge) 3: Ftr 2/Wiz 1: 2x Feat (combat expertise, scribe scroll) 4: Ftr 2/Wiz 2: 5: Ftr 2/Wiz 3: 6: Ftr 2/Wiz 4: Feat (combat casting) 7: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1: -10% ASF 8: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 1: Bladesong style 9: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 2: Lesser spellsong, Feat (improved toughness) 10: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 3: 11: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 4: Song of Celerity (4th) 12: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 5: Feat (arcane strike) 13: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 5/EK 1: Feat (mobility) 14: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 5/EK 2: 15: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 5/EK 3: Feat (spring attack) 16: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 5/EK 4: 17: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 5/EK 5: 18: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 5/EK 6: Feat (extend spell) 19: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 5/EK 7: 20: Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SS 1/BS 5/EK 8: BAB 18, CL 15. Obviously, the force of this build lies in its high caster level. It doesn’t get int to damage, and it relies on many different ability scores (strength for melee, dexterity for defence, intelligence for spell casting), but compensates well with spellcasting. Some people like to do bladesingers with weapon finesse without going Swashbuckler. The damage output in melee takes a huge hit because of this; hence I think it is a mistake. The build really comes into its own at the higher levels when the character can begin to throw high level spells around while being an able melee combatant as well. 3. Half-elf. Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Wizard 2/Bladesinger 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 8 1: Swb 1: Feat (weapon focus (rapier)) 2: Swb 2: Grace +1 3: Swb 3: Insightful strike, feat (dodge) 4: Swb 3/Wiz 1: Feat (scribe scroll) 5: Swb 3/Wiz 2: 6: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1: Feat x2 (combat expertise, combat casting) 7: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 1: Bladesong style 8: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 1/SS 1: 9: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 2/SS 1: Lesser spellsong, feat (improved critical (rapier)) 10: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 3/SS 1: 11: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 4/SS 1: Song of Celerity (2nd) 12: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 5/SS 1: Feat (improved initiative) 13: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 5/SS 1/EK 1: Feat (arcane strike) 14: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 5/SS 1/EK 2: 15: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 5/SS 1/EK 3: Feat (improved toughness) 16: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 5/SS 1/EK 4: 17: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 5/SS 1/EK 5: 18: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 5/SS 1/EK 6: Feat (mobility) 19: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 5/SS 1/EK 7: 20: Swb 3/Wiz 2/Ftr 1/BS 5/SS 1/EK 8: BAB 19, CL 13. This build attempts to combine the 2 previous builds. The int to everything trick (which makes the strength score more or less unimportant – a huge benefit, imo) gets combined with relatively high level spell casting (as high as possible when you need 5 levels of bladesinger, which you do to be a “proper” bladesinger (read: to take proper advantage of the class), imo.)." (from "Evaluating the CW Bladesinger" thread.).
Sir Gummibaerchen 02-23-05, 01:57 PM	Care to explain why all of your stats are odd? If you're using point buy, go with even stats. If you rolled them, well talk about bad luck (not that they are bad in themselves, but even > odd when it comes to stats). And you have listet Con twice, is the second Con Wis? Taking more than the first level of Bladesinger seems like a waste. You lose a caster level, and don't gain a thing for levels 2 and 3. Lesser spellsong is a joke. I'd go with Swashbuckler3/Wizard2/Elf Paragon3/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Bladesinger1/EK9 Take a look at the feat Insightful Reflexes from CAdv, it makes you use your Int mod instead of your Dex mod for reflex saves. Take a look into the gish thread from Shadow Mage for a plethora of build better than the aforementioned.
Dain 02-23-05, 03:48 PM	Care to explain why all of your stats are odd? If you're using point buy, go with even stats. If you rolled them, well talk about bad luck (not that they are bad in themselves, but even > odd when it comes to stats). And you have listet Con twice, is the second Con Wis? Taking more than the first level of Bladesinger seems like a waist. You lose a caster level, and don't gain a thing for levels 2 and 3. Lesser spellsong is a joke. Say WHAT?! If you're gonna spend 4 lousy feats qualifying, you better take more than one level. Taking only one level is a joke. If you're only gonna take one level, you might as well not bother. - Dain