Bladesinger 3.0 vs 3.5 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bladesinger 3.0 vs 3.5 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
richardharrison
05-25-04, 05:13 PM Apologies if this thread came up some time ago - couldn't find it on the search.

In my FR campaign, I have a player wanting to go Bladesinger. In the midst of the campaign, Complete Warrior came out and nerfed it and now he's not sure. I'd like to consider allowing him to use the Races of Faerun version.

From an optimization perspective, what are the implications here? I've already allowed the party's Wizard to hang on to the 3.0 version of Spellcasting Prodigy so there's a precedent.

I don't have a copy of Races (I've been reading the one in my local Borders instead) but I've borrowed Complete Warrior from my local library and I'll borrow the office photocopier for the Bladesinger info if we go that way (I think 3 pages is fair use for photocopying?)

Cheers all,

Richard
rilem
05-25-04, 05:21 PM This did come up a while back. The interesting part is that Races of Faerun is 3.5 — check the early pages; as I recall it says the book is compliant with 3.5 rules. So using it is perfectly defensible.

Some people on this board have suggested using both the RoF and CW versions — reflecting different fighting schools of Bladesingers.

The power level between the two PrCs seems to be considerable, though — the RoF Bladesinger is probably the strongest of the four (so far, anyway) versions published, because it allows free-action casting not just on Bladesinger spells but on any arcane spell.
richardharrison
05-25-04, 05:28 PM I had a thought that Races was at least semi- 3.5!

I think I might go ahead and allow it - I can always correct any power level imbalance in the game by dropping in a couple of good magic items usable by other party members.

Any differing opinions?
AaronXVI
05-25-04, 08:26 PM Wait, there have been four versions of the bladesinger publsihed, where were they each published?
richardharrison
05-25-04, 08:30 PM I'm pretty sure there was one in Tome & Blood.
AaronXVI
05-25-04, 08:32 PM Tome and blood, races of faerun, and now the complete warrior, where was the fourth published?
richardharrison
05-25-04, 08:42 PM I think possibly an issue of Dragon?
PhoenixInferno
05-25-04, 08:48 PM The Tome & Blood Bladesinger was the first of the 4. The second Bladesinger was an errattaed version of the first, found in a Web Enhancement. The third is the most powerful, the Races of Faerun (which also allows you to use rapiers as well as longswords). The fourth is the Complete Warrior version, which is considered by many to be neutered, compared to the RoF BS.
AaronXVI
05-25-04, 10:41 PM Anybody know where I can get a copy of the erreta'd tome and blood version? The only erreta I saw was saying to use the RoF version.
Blade2718
05-25-04, 11:08 PM Search the WoTC Web Enhancements for Dungeons and Dragons for that.
cellardweller
05-26-04, 01:12 AM I have just played a RoF bladesinger (Nin1/Ftr4/Ass1/BS1-6/DrDi2/BS7-8) though City of the Spider Queen and can testify that it is definitely a tier1 prestige class. Nearly everything needed a 20 to hit him. Thanks to sneak attack, combined with spells and using twf (off-hand claw) and a bite (secondary natural) combined with his longsword, he still managed to dish out a stack of damage each and every round.

Is it a uber PrC? Well yes.
Is it gamebreaking? If you can handle frenzied bezerkers and invisble blades, you should be fine.

Its really not that different to the new psiwar with thier cute little swift actions.
Aimian Silverflash
05-26-04, 04:17 PM Another semi-broke thing about version 3 above is that they get the INT mod-to-AC immediately, instead of being stepped up, like the latest one.

We saw this become an issue when we had a 3.0 bladesinger with a relatively low character level have an AC of like 35, after you counted up Haste, shield, etc.

I guess it varies from game to game, but to us, that was simply far too powerful.
rilem
05-26-04, 04:37 PM Anybody want odds on the chances of a fifth Bladesinger class in Complete Arcane? I don't think WotC can help themselves.

One interesting casualty of the CW Bladesinger seems to be the Bard/Bladesinger concept. In earlier versions a Bard/BS or Bard/Fighter/BS was a fairly popular alternative.

With the CW Bladesinger, which replaces the old BS spell list with continued spellcasting progression, I don't think I've seen one Bard/Bladesinger build. Presumably the loss of True Strike and other BS spells made the concept pointless to many.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
richardharrison 05-25-04, 05:13 PM	Apologies if this thread came up some time ago - couldn't find it on the search. In my FR campaign, I have a player wanting to go Bladesinger. In the midst of the campaign, Complete Warrior came out and nerfed it and now he's not sure. I'd like to consider allowing him to use the Races of Faerun version. From an optimization perspective, what are the implications here? I've already allowed the party's Wizard to hang on to the 3.0 version of Spellcasting Prodigy so there's a precedent. I don't have a copy of Races (I've been reading the one in my local Borders instead) but I've borrowed Complete Warrior from my local library and I'll borrow the office photocopier for the Bladesinger info if we go that way (I think 3 pages is fair use for photocopying?) Cheers all, Richard
rilem 05-25-04, 05:21 PM	This did come up a while back. The interesting part is that Races of Faerun is 3.5 — check the early pages; as I recall it says the book is compliant with 3.5 rules. So using it is perfectly defensible. Some people on this board have suggested using both the RoF and CW versions — reflecting different fighting schools of Bladesingers. The power level between the two PrCs seems to be considerable, though — the RoF Bladesinger is probably the strongest of the four (so far, anyway) versions published, because it allows free-action casting not just on Bladesinger spells but on any arcane spell.
richardharrison 05-25-04, 05:28 PM	I had a thought that Races was at least semi- 3.5! I think I might go ahead and allow it - I can always correct any power level imbalance in the game by dropping in a couple of good magic items usable by other party members. Any differing opinions?
AaronXVI 05-25-04, 08:26 PM	Wait, there have been four versions of the bladesinger publsihed, where were they each published?
richardharrison 05-25-04, 08:30 PM	I'm pretty sure there was one in Tome & Blood.
AaronXVI 05-25-04, 08:32 PM	Tome and blood, races of faerun, and now the complete warrior, where was the fourth published?
richardharrison 05-25-04, 08:42 PM	I think possibly an issue of Dragon?
PhoenixInferno 05-25-04, 08:48 PM	The Tome & Blood Bladesinger was the first of the 4. The second Bladesinger was an errattaed version of the first, found in a Web Enhancement. The third is the most powerful, the Races of Faerun (which also allows you to use rapiers as well as longswords). The fourth is the Complete Warrior version, which is considered by many to be neutered, compared to the RoF BS.
AaronXVI 05-25-04, 10:41 PM	Anybody know where I can get a copy of the erreta'd tome and blood version? The only erreta I saw was saying to use the RoF version.
Blade2718 05-25-04, 11:08 PM	Search the WoTC Web Enhancements for Dungeons and Dragons for that.
cellardweller 05-26-04, 01:12 AM	I have just played a RoF bladesinger (Nin1/Ftr4/Ass1/BS1-6/DrDi2/BS7-8) though City of the Spider Queen and can testify that it is definitely a tier1 prestige class. Nearly everything needed a 20 to hit him. Thanks to sneak attack, combined with spells and using twf (off-hand claw) and a bite (secondary natural) combined with his longsword, he still managed to dish out a stack of damage each and every round. Is it a uber PrC? Well yes. Is it gamebreaking? If you can handle frenzied bezerkers and invisble blades, you should be fine. Its really not that different to the new psiwar with thier cute little swift actions.
Aimian Silverflash 05-26-04, 04:17 PM	Another semi-broke thing about version 3 above is that they get the INT mod-to-AC immediately, instead of being stepped up, like the latest one. We saw this become an issue when we had a 3.0 bladesinger with a relatively low character level have an AC of like 35, after you counted up Haste, shield, etc. I guess it varies from game to game, but to us, that was simply far too powerful.
rilem 05-26-04, 04:37 PM	Anybody want odds on the chances of a fifth Bladesinger class in Complete Arcane? I don't think WotC can help themselves. One interesting casualty of the CW Bladesinger seems to be the Bard/Bladesinger concept. In earlier versions a Bard/BS or Bard/Fighter/BS was a fairly popular alternative. With the CW Bladesinger, which replaces the old BS spell list with continued spellcasting progression, I don't think I've seen one Bard/Bladesinger build. Presumably the loss of True Strike and other BS spells made the concept pointless to many.