Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sej360 02-18-04, 01:58 PM	Sorcerer/Fighter/Bladesinger... Hey, I like the the CW Bladesinger version. Its not too overpowered (like the previous versions). Also, I think that Complete Warrior adds some feats that can maximize the character (like Arcane Strike). I'm still working on a Bladesinger Sorcerer progression, but i think a maximized 20th level character it will end up looking something like this: 4 Fighter 4 Sorcerer 10 Bladesinger 2 Spellsword (CW) Key Feat: Arcane Strike (CW). I think the Arcane Strike, combined with the sorcerer aspect of this character really gives it an edge in H-T-H combat. I chose Spellsword over Eldritch Knight bacause of the SS channel spell ability. I like the idea of putting Enervation and Arcane Strike on my blade. Plus SS had better hit points. I'm going to think more on this and I'll post an optimized progression. What do yall think?
JosephKell 02-18-04, 01:59 PM	I "think" Spellsword doesn't get Channel Spell until level 4.
Snow Savant 02-18-04, 02:06 PM	More Spellsword levels, less Fighter. Fighter-2 is all you need. 2 additional levels of Fighter net you a total of 1 feat, which is a waste of class-ability accumulation. And as JosephKell stated, SS-4 is when you get Spell Channel. SS-5 should be mandatory in this build. Looking forward to the new, revised build! Snow :)
JosephKell 02-18-04, 02:38 PM	Off the top of my head... Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/Bladesinger 9? Half-Elf 1 Ftr 1: Dodge, Combat Expertise 2 Ftr 1/Sor 1: Summon Familiar 3 Ftr 1/Sor 2: Combat Casting 4 Ftr 2/Sor 2: Weapon Focus (Longsword) 5 Ftr 2/Sor 3: 6 Ftr 2/Sor 4: Mobility 7 Ftr 2/Sor 4/Sps 1: Ignore ASF 10% 8 Ftr 2/Sor 4/Sps 1/Bs 1:... ... 16 Ftr 2/Sor 4/Sps 1/Bs 9:.. ... 20 Ftr 2/Sor 4/Sps 5/Bs 9: The only problem with combining the Bladesinger and the Spellsword is that one will have to wait. Once you really start down the Bladesinger path, Spellsword is sort of back stepping (3 more levels to Channel Spell? That is level 19 at the minimum!). Or if you go Spellsword 5 first you are basically a Tank then you decide to abandon armor... (huh?). There is just no way to optimize the Bladesinger short of: Fighter 4/Sorcerer or Wizard 2/Bladesinger Bard could do it... Bard 3/Fighter 4/Bladesinger... But there just is no good way to make a High caster Bladesinger anymore.
pawsplay 02-18-04, 03:27 PM	How's this for a high caster level Bladesinger? Sorcerer 10/Bladesinger 10 It only works for full Elves, unfortunately, because you can't take Weapon Focus until you are proficient. Half-elves have to go with Fighter 1/Sorcerer 8/Bladesinger 10/Spellsword 1. Fighter can be replaced, of course, with Ranger, Barbarian, Paladin, or Hexblade. Bard 9/Bladesinger 10/Spellsword 1 is another good one.
HoshiAdam 02-18-04, 04:22 PM	If you are taking Bladesinger, wizard is the way to go, so you can add more of your Int to your AC. If you are taking Sorcerer, you might consider lowering the bladesinger levels to 3 or 2, to get the take 10 on the defensive ability. Song of Celerity isn't that great now that it is once per day. Greater Spellsong isn't that great if you are taking levels of Spellsword, since your Spellsword ASF reduction can be more useful. Also, Spellsword would let you use a shield, which will probably add more to your AC than Bladesong Style would, if you are a sorcerer. Taking those ideas into account, you could do Fighter2/ Sorcerer4/ Spellsword10/ Bladesinger3/ Dragonslayer1 1: Sorcerer 1 (Combat Casting) 2: Fighter 1 (Dodge) 3: Sorcerer 2 (Combat Expertise) 4: Fighter 2 (Weapon Focus: Longsword) 5: Sorcerer 3 6: Sorcerer 4 (Iron Will) 7: Spellsword 1:-10% ASF 8: Bladesinger 1 9: Dragonslayer 1 (Arcane Strike) 10:Bladesinger 2: Lesser Spellsong 11:Spellsword 2: Bonus fighter or metamagic feat 12: Bladesinger 3 Feat of Choice 13-20 Spellsword 3-10 Final totals: +18 BAB, 12th caster level, -30%ASF, Int to AC up to +3, Take 10 to cast on defensive, Channel spell 5x per day, multichannel. F/R/W: 17/7/16(+Iron Will). 3 open feats plus one fighter or metamagic feat. I'd recommend taking a buckler so you have a free hand to cast, and you only lose the defense if you make an attack with that hand (so touch spells). Taking Improved Buckler Defense would allow you to keep your buckler's AC bonus even while using a touch attack spell. I'm not sure if having a buckler counts as wielding something in your off hand, since you have to use that hand to cast a spell with somatic components.
sej360 02-18-04, 05:25 PM	When I think about Bladesingers, I see a high dex H-T-H combatant who uses some spells (optimally no more than 4th or 5th level spells) to back sword play. I see a bladesinger on par in combat with two-weapon rangers (3.5). The spells evens the H-T-H playing field. I think Bladesingers would are much more effective as sorcerers than wizards because of the feat Arcane Strike (CW). This feat seems to be made especially for sorcerer-bladesingers and spellswords. This feat alone with the multiple spells per level may put a bladesinger a little above rangers on the h-t-h combat scale. Since I see bladesingers optimally as sorcerers, a FR Wild Elf would be the best BS. Since Wild Elves don't take XP penalties from sorcerer levels... I think bladesingers would primarily use his 1-time quickened spell ability only as last effort to overcome an unforsee obsticle or to get close to (or away from) a powerful baddie. I think Dimension Door or Fly works here. Dispel Magic may be another spell to use for those spell-defensed buffed spellcasters. Right now, I going to look into a couple different bladesingers: 1) Bladesinger who thinks himself as a pure one-sword fighter 2) Bladesinger/Ranger who takes unarmed strike or some other feat to trip up an opponent with his off-hand I see character optimization as a way to fill-out a character concept/story. That is, I don't traditionally take 1 or 2 levels of a class just to get early/quick class benefits (unless it fits with the character concept/story). I also think that Prestige Classes should be maxed out before moving on to another PrC. Anyway... I'm rambling... I'm gonna get back to my character and I'll post them later... (I'm leaving Eldritch Knights out of this bladesinger talk, because I see EKs more as higher HD spell casters than H-T-H combats who cast spells)
pawsplay 02-18-04, 05:45 PM	If you're trying to keep the AC high, you want more fight, less spells. Fighter 4/Sorc 3/Bladesinger 2/Spellsword 10/ blah. And you can do the buckler thing. But if you are more caster, you want to keep a hand free and quickly capitalize on the Bladesinger benefits. Sorcerer 10/Bladesinger 10. The later entry also means you have more time to optimize your Intelligence. Caster level 15 means you don't, strictly speaking, need a Cha higher than 17.