Bladesinger for random fun I guess [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bladesinger for random fun I guess [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kafit
05-23-06, 11:21 PM I have seriously been tinkering around with using the blade singer out of the complete warrior. I don't know why but I was thinking about how to make one out to level twenty and... I don't know what I am trying to do with it really, but what do you think of this?

Grey Elf
First ten levels: 3 swashbuckler, 2 wizard, 2 fighter, 3 elf paragon
Last ten: Bladesinger

Just talking about the random benefits beyond the feats you need to get into bladesinger, you gain int to damage, int to AC, 9 caster levels, two fighter feats, a plus two to int, sharpened senses, I think +18 BAB, some free quickening abilities, and light armor use. I figure that if you start with an 18 int, the grey elf will bring that to 20, +2 from the elf paragon and then add all 5 of your boosts to int and you get a 27. Find a way to get that up another three and you get +10 to damage with finessable weapons and AC. take practiced spellcaster and you can have some nice buffs, cast a quickened fire shield, and you have a nice set of attacks and damage. get elven chain and you can have a nice dexterity going. I don't know why I posted this but it seemed like it would be interesting and the "uber elf". I had nifty thoughts of this character being the leader of an elven war on human lands. With some bodyguards I could see him being a nasty opponent in combat.

Just a thought, because I am weird. What think ye?
JosephKell
05-23-06, 11:27 PM Dusk...blade...
kafit
05-23-06, 11:34 PM Different style with the bladesinger. It is the light armored kinda char vs the heavy armor kinda char. That and I actually dislike the duskblade. So nyah! That and I totally forgot about it while thinking of this
JosephKell
05-24-06, 12:58 AM Medium Armor isn't heavy. The only thing that Bladesinger does that a Duskblade doesn't do better is add Int to AC. The Duskblade is more mobile, has more uses of its Quicken Spell like ability per day, and doesn't damage its caster level, BAB, hp.

You could also just do a Duskblade 13/Bladesinger 7. CL 17. Up to +7 to AC from Int if you use Light Armor and no shield.

-Jonathan
kafit
05-24-06, 01:03 AM Well... I feel outdone... haha. Okay then, good job.
JosephKell
05-24-06, 01:18 AM Actually Dusk 13/Bds 7 will have a much stronger Reflex save (+3) for a -2 to Fort. Also gets a +5 to to Will at a -2 to Will so another net gain of +3.

I have been thinking about this for a while. So I had a head start on the responses.
kafit
05-24-06, 08:59 AM So wait, basically you are saying that, besides int to damage (swashbuckler), your character is getting everything that my silly design got and doesn't require such a ridiculously high intelligence and can also add spells to every melee attack it makes and gets better armor? Basically he gets everything mine does and then some.

Is it actually useful for said Duskblade to go Bladesinger?
JosephKell
05-24-06, 12:15 PM So wait, basically you are saying that, besides int to damage (swashbuckler), your character is getting everything that my silly design got and doesn't require such a ridiculously high intelligence and can also add spells to every melee attack it makes and gets better armor? Basically he gets everything mine does and then some.

Is it actually useful for said Duskblade to go Bladesinger?Swashbuckler 3 vs Duskblade 3:
-- Swashbuckler gets Int to Damage (let's say 10 just because a 30 Int is rediculous)
-- Duskblade can channel any touch spell through a standard action attack (I am not sure if when you Cleave, if you get the Arcane Channel damage still). At level 3, I think the best spell to channel is Shocking Grasp (3d6, avg 10.5).

Let's see... Casting in Light Armor (and use of light Shield, not really necessary) from level 1...

Bladesinger would definitely improve a Duskblade's AC (Bladesingers get to add 1 point of Int Modifier to AC per level). But I think that a Duskblade using a Spiked Chain + Whirlwind Attack to Arcane Channel all enemies at level 13+. Vampiric Touch to deal 2d4 + 6d6 + 1.5*Str damage.

Shoot, I made a level 4 Duskblade that took Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, and Cometary Collision so that he could ready an arcane channeling attack as part of a charge to counter-charge for 2d6+4+4d6 (Greatsword + shocking grasp at CL 4).

Oh yeah, Duskblades eventually get 10 BASE 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells per day.

Duskblades are fluffed as originating among Elves, they should've just called the damn class Bladesinger (but they didn't want to name mangle or make people argue about whether they should be limited to only Elves/Half-Elves).

-Jonathan
Marcus Majarra
05-24-06, 12:41 PM But I think that a Duskblade using a Spiked Chain + Whirlwind Attack to Arcane Channel all enemies at level 13+. Vampiric Touch to deal 2d4 + 6d6 + 1.5*Str damage.

Shoot, I made a level 4 Duskblade that took Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, and Cometary Collision so that he could ready an arcane channeling attack as part of a charge to counter-charge for 2d6+4+4d6 (Greatsword + shocking grasp at CL 4).
Some inconsistencies:

1) How do you plan on supplying a somatic component for Vampiric Touch without a free hand to cast with? Arcane channeling does allow you to use a spell as part of your attack, but you're still casting it. As a two-handed weapon, the spiked chain effectively keeps you from using arcane channeling except with stilled spells (which you can only cast as a full-round action, since the duskblade is a spontaneous caster). If you want to abuse reach and whirlwind attack with arcane channeling, the kusari-gama (DMG) is the way to go.

2) Unfortunately, you can't combine arcane channeling with cometary collision. The former is used as either a standard action or incorporated into a full attack action. The latter requires that you ready a charge action. This is one of those "can't combine Rapid Shot with Manyshot" scenarios. Not that cometary collision is that useful either.
JosephKell
05-24-06, 12:57 PM 2) Unfortunately, you can't combine arcane channeling with cometary collision. The former is used as either a standard action or incorporated into a full attack action. The latter requires that you ready a charge action. This is one of those "can't combine Rapid Shot with Manyshot" scenarios. Not that cometary collision is that useful either.Beginning at 3rd level, you can use a standard action to cast any touch spell you know and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.Benefit: You can ready a standard action to use this feat when an opponent charges you or any other target.Readying is a Move Action. The only confusion is on whether the feat means that this feat lets you shrink a charge action to a standard action ONLY in terms of readying it. Or if you can ready a standard action to execute at the end of a charge.

I assumed the latter because it says you can ready a standard action. And didn't say "Using this feat you can ready a charge."

-Jonathan
Manus
05-24-06, 01:00 PM Play a warforged bard. Who cares about a -2 charisma if you can be the one who plays music all night when the party is trying to sleep?

The M.onarch P.erformer Mark 3. Now with itunes.
Marcus Majarra
05-24-06, 01:52 PM Readying is a Move Action. The only confusion is on whether the feat means that this feat lets you shrink a charge action to a standard action ONLY in terms of readying it. Or if you can ready a standard action to execute at the end of a charge.

I assumed the latter because it says you can ready a standard action. And didn't say "Using this feat you can ready a charge."

-Jonathan
I stand partially corrected:

1) Readying an action is a standard action, not a move action. You can ready a standard, move, or free action.

2) While you're not readying a charge, you're readying to use cometary collision and using this feat is a standard action that can only be readied. When you're using cometary collision, you're not readying just any standard action. You're readying to use the feat, the effects of which are described under the feat's description. Again, this proves to be incompatible with arcane channeling as both require their own standard actions to use.
JosephKell
05-24-06, 02:02 PM I stand partially corrected:

1) Readying an action is a standard action, not a move action. You can ready a standard, move, or free action.

2) While you're not readying a charge, you're readying to use cometary collision and using this feat is a standard action that can only be readied. When you're using cometary collision, you're not readying just any standard action. You're readying to use the feat, the effects of which are described under the feat's description. Again, this proves to be incompatible with arcane channeling as both require their own standard actions to use.The feat needs to be errataed to say, "You can ready an action to charge"

It seems you're right. I will find a good use for Cometary Collision...
Marcus Majarra
05-24-06, 02:22 PM I will find a good use for Cometary Collision...
I've been trying to come up with uses for that too, but it's far too restrictive as it is right now. The fact that you have to ready the feat against a charge makes the feat very circumstantial, at best. It's a great way to interrupt enemy charges; great when combined with grappling/disarming/tripping/bullrush tactics. However, if your opponents aren't clearly charging often, you're just killing time by using this feat.

There is one interesting aspect of the feat however. Since you're readying the feat and not a partial charge, you can technically get a full charge off of a standard action. This means you can easily move to an advantageous position while drawing a weapon, and then get a full double move and an attack when you find it the most opportune.

Maybe a warforged juggernaut blood-spiked charger could get a kick out of this feat...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kafit 05-23-06, 11:21 PM	I have seriously been tinkering around with using the blade singer out of the complete warrior. I don't know why but I was thinking about how to make one out to level twenty and... I don't know what I am trying to do with it really, but what do you think of this? Grey Elf First ten levels: 3 swashbuckler, 2 wizard, 2 fighter, 3 elf paragon Last ten: Bladesinger Just talking about the random benefits beyond the feats you need to get into bladesinger, you gain int to damage, int to AC, 9 caster levels, two fighter feats, a plus two to int, sharpened senses, I think +18 BAB, some free quickening abilities, and light armor use. I figure that if you start with an 18 int, the grey elf will bring that to 20, +2 from the elf paragon and then add all 5 of your boosts to int and you get a 27. Find a way to get that up another three and you get +10 to damage with finessable weapons and AC. take practiced spellcaster and you can have some nice buffs, cast a quickened fire shield, and you have a nice set of attacks and damage. get elven chain and you can have a nice dexterity going. I don't know why I posted this but it seemed like it would be interesting and the "uber elf". I had nifty thoughts of this character being the leader of an elven war on human lands. With some bodyguards I could see him being a nasty opponent in combat. Just a thought, because I am weird. What think ye?
JosephKell 05-23-06, 11:27 PM	Dusk...blade...
kafit 05-23-06, 11:34 PM	Different style with the bladesinger. It is the light armored kinda char vs the heavy armor kinda char. That and I actually dislike the duskblade. So nyah! That and I totally forgot about it while thinking of this
JosephKell 05-24-06, 12:58 AM	Medium Armor isn't heavy. The only thing that Bladesinger does that a Duskblade doesn't do better is add Int to AC. The Duskblade is more mobile, has more uses of its Quicken Spell like ability per day, and doesn't damage its caster level, BAB, hp. You could also just do a Duskblade 13/Bladesinger 7. CL 17. Up to +7 to AC from Int if you use Light Armor and no shield. -Jonathan
kafit 05-24-06, 01:03 AM	Well... I feel outdone... haha. Okay then, good job.
JosephKell 05-24-06, 01:18 AM	Actually Dusk 13/Bds 7 will have a much stronger Reflex save (+3) for a -2 to Fort. Also gets a +5 to to Will at a -2 to Will so another net gain of +3. I have been thinking about this for a while. So I had a head start on the responses.
kafit 05-24-06, 08:59 AM	So wait, basically you are saying that, besides int to damage (swashbuckler), your character is getting everything that my silly design got and doesn't require such a ridiculously high intelligence and can also add spells to every melee attack it makes and gets better armor? Basically he gets everything mine does and then some. Is it actually useful for said Duskblade to go Bladesinger?
JosephKell 05-24-06, 12:15 PM	So wait, basically you are saying that, besides int to damage (swashbuckler), your character is getting everything that my silly design got and doesn't require such a ridiculously high intelligence and can also add spells to every melee attack it makes and gets better armor? Basically he gets everything mine does and then some. Is it actually useful for said Duskblade to go Bladesinger?Swashbuckler 3 vs Duskblade 3: -- Swashbuckler gets Int to Damage (let's say 10 just because a 30 Int is rediculous) -- Duskblade can channel any touch spell through a standard action attack (I am not sure if when you Cleave, if you get the Arcane Channel damage still). At level 3, I think the best spell to channel is Shocking Grasp (3d6, avg 10.5). Let's see... Casting in Light Armor (and use of light Shield, not really necessary) from level 1... Bladesinger would definitely improve a Duskblade's AC (Bladesingers get to add 1 point of Int Modifier to AC per level). But I think that a Duskblade using a Spiked Chain + Whirlwind Attack to Arcane Channel all enemies at level 13+. Vampiric Touch to deal 2d4 + 6d6 + 1.5*Str damage. Shoot, I made a level 4 Duskblade that took Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, and Cometary Collision so that he could ready an arcane channeling attack as part of a charge to counter-charge for 2d6+4+4d6 (Greatsword + shocking grasp at CL 4). Oh yeah, Duskblades eventually get 10 BASE 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells per day. Duskblades are fluffed as originating among Elves, they should've just called the damn class Bladesinger (but they didn't want to name mangle or make people argue about whether they should be limited to only Elves/Half-Elves). -Jonathan
Marcus Majarra 05-24-06, 12:41 PM	But I think that a Duskblade using a Spiked Chain + Whirlwind Attack to Arcane Channel all enemies at level 13+. Vampiric Touch to deal 2d4 + 6d6 + 1.5*Str damage. Shoot, I made a level 4 Duskblade that took Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, and Cometary Collision so that he could ready an arcane channeling attack as part of a charge to counter-charge for 2d6+4+4d6 (Greatsword + shocking grasp at CL 4). Some inconsistencies: 1) How do you plan on supplying a somatic component for Vampiric Touch without a free hand to cast with? Arcane channeling does allow you to use a spell as part of your attack, but you're still casting it. As a two-handed weapon, the spiked chain effectively keeps you from using arcane channeling except with stilled spells (which you can only cast as a full-round action, since the duskblade is a spontaneous caster). If you want to abuse reach and whirlwind attack with arcane channeling, the kusari-gama (DMG) is the way to go. 2) Unfortunately, you can't combine arcane channeling with cometary collision. The former is used as either a standard action or incorporated into a full attack action. The latter requires that you ready a charge action. This is one of those "can't combine Rapid Shot with Manyshot" scenarios. Not that cometary collision is that useful either.
JosephKell 05-24-06, 12:57 PM	2) Unfortunately, you can't combine arcane channeling with cometary collision. The former is used as either a standard action or incorporated into a full attack action. The latter requires that you ready a charge action. This is one of those "can't combine Rapid Shot with Manyshot" scenarios. Not that cometary collision is that useful either.Beginning at 3rd level, you can use a standard action to cast any touch spell you know and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.Benefit: You can ready a standard action to use this feat when an opponent charges you or any other target.Readying is a Move Action. The only confusion is on whether the feat means that this feat lets you shrink a charge action to a standard action ONLY in terms of readying it. Or if you can ready a standard action to execute at the end of a charge. I assumed the latter because it says you can ready a standard action. And didn't say "Using this feat you can ready a charge." -Jonathan
Manus 05-24-06, 01:00 PM	Play a warforged bard. Who cares about a -2 charisma if you can be the one who plays music all night when the party is trying to sleep? The M.onarch P.erformer Mark 3. Now with itunes.
Marcus Majarra 05-24-06, 01:52 PM	Readying is a Move Action. The only confusion is on whether the feat means that this feat lets you shrink a charge action to a standard action ONLY in terms of readying it. Or if you can ready a standard action to execute at the end of a charge. I assumed the latter because it says you can ready a standard action. And didn't say "Using this feat you can ready a charge." -Jonathan I stand partially corrected: 1) Readying an action is a standard action, not a move action. You can ready a standard, move, or free action. 2) While you're not readying a charge, you're readying to use cometary collision and using this feat is a standard action that can only be readied. When you're using cometary collision, you're not readying just any standard action. You're readying to use the feat, the effects of which are described under the feat's description. Again, this proves to be incompatible with arcane channeling as both require their own standard actions to use.
JosephKell 05-24-06, 02:02 PM	I stand partially corrected: 1) Readying an action is a standard action, not a move action. You can ready a standard, move, or free action. 2) While you're not readying a charge, you're readying to use cometary collision and using this feat is a standard action that can only be readied. When you're using cometary collision, you're not readying just any standard action. You're readying to use the feat, the effects of which are described under the feat's description. Again, this proves to be incompatible with arcane channeling as both require their own standard actions to use.The feat needs to be errataed to say, "You can ready an action to charge" It seems you're right. I will find a good use for Cometary Collision...
Marcus Majarra 05-24-06, 02:22 PM	I will find a good use for Cometary Collision... I've been trying to come up with uses for that too, but it's far too restrictive as it is right now. The fact that you have to ready the feat against a charge makes the feat very circumstantial, at best. It's a great way to interrupt enemy charges; great when combined with grappling/disarming/tripping/bullrush tactics. However, if your opponents aren't clearly charging often, you're just killing time by using this feat. There is one interesting aspect of the feat however. Since you're readying the feat and not a partial charge, you can technically get a full charge off of a standard action. This means you can easily move to an advantageous position while drawing a weapon, and then get a full double move and an attack when you find it the most opportune. Maybe a warforged juggernaut blood-spiked charger could get a kick out of this feat...