Bladesinger Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bladesinger Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Steelwind
10-14-06, 05:12 AM My friend is going to replay and old 2ed charecter(the whole party is actually replaying there original converted charecters), who is a moon elf bladesinger that weilds a moonblade. Anyway he is hellbent on taking all 10 levels of bladesinger so I told him I would give him a hand based around that. My current build idea was Ftr2/Wiz4/Spellsword4/Bladesinger10(his original idea was Ftr4/Wiz6/Bladesinger10 so I think this is at least somewhat of an improval). Taking the 1st level elven wizard sub level.

1Ftr1 Wpn Focus(longsword), Dodge
2Ftr2 Combat Expertise
3Wiz1 Combat Casting
4Wiz2
5Wiz3
6Wiz4 Practiced Spellcaster
7SpS1
8SpS2 Improved Toughness
9SpS3 Arcane Strike
10SpS4
11-20Bladesinger

Anyway I was wondering on some ideas for some additional feats, I was possibly thining of a 2nd Practiced Spellcaster. As well if there is a better build out there while keeping 10 levels in Bladesinger. Assume all books are allowed.
Steelwind
10-14-06, 10:28 PM Come on guys, any input would be appriciated.
LiamDeclan
10-15-06, 01:06 AM Get rid of 3 levels of Spellsword and take 3 levels of Eldritch Knight. That will get you 1 more caster level.

You could also take 3 levels of Havoc Mage from the minatures handbook, it will let you attack and cast a spell in a full round action w/o provoking AoO's from anyone. But it would be limited on 4th level and lower spells I think.

Feats take Smiting Spell (PHB II) lets you channel a touch spell into any projectile or melee weapon and lasts for 1 minute or until you strike something.

Arcane Thesis, Elven Spell Lore, Energy Substitution are all good feats. If you take Elven Spell Lore don't take Energy Sub.
graymocker
10-15-06, 04:00 AM 3 levels of the swashbuckler core class from Complete Warrior would be very synergistic here and probably a better choice than a simple fighter. The only difference is that the character would probably want to switch to a rapier, because the best Swashbuckler ability - insightful strike, add INT bonus to weapon damage - only applies on weapons that can be used with finesse.

You could also introduce the Elven Thinblade from Races of the Wild as an alternate exotic finessable weapon if your player wants something more longsword-flavored to go with the Wizard/Swashbuckler/Bladesinger combo.
Steelwind
10-15-06, 04:12 AM Thanks for the ideas guys. Havoc Mage is probably out but elven spell lore and arcane thesis would be good, and swashbuckler is a no go, I know how great that int to dmg can be from my Dervish, but his main weapon is a moonblade which is a longsword and thats not gonna change.
Kuroi Kenshi
10-15-06, 03:31 PM Maybe drop spellsword levels for abjurant champion levels? Unless you really want channel spell and another bonus feat, you'll eventually ignore ASF in light armor anyway, so you'll just plain get more from the abjurant champion. On the other hand, waiting until level 16 for ignoring ASF in light armor is pretty horrible.

Just an aside, it probably won't fly, but you could easily do a bard/sublime chord/abjurant champion build whose profession and fighting style *is* bladesinging: Snowflake Wardance! Only one one-handed slashing weapon fighting style that runs off of bard songs? Come on :D Throw in Whirling Steel Strike and he gets to flurry with his sword just like a bladesinger, too (though that's harder to work in). He'll still get to quicken some of his lower level spells, and he'll have far superior casting. Dip 2 levels of arcane duelist for CHA to AC to emulate the bladesinger bonus, and/or dip a level of fighter before sublime chord and you're even more bladesinger-ish. Class names are only handy identifiers for collections of abilities, after all. There's much more to a character than just classes. This strip of OotS illustrates that nicely. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html)

Half Elf Bard1-2/Fighter2/Monk1/Bard3-5/Arcane Duelist2/Bard6-7/Sublime Chord2/Abjurant Champion5/Spellsword1
Feats: 1-Dodge, Ftr1-Mobility, 3-Snowflake Wardance, Ftr2-WF: Longsword, 6-Whirling Steel Strike, 9-Combat Casting, 12-Arcane Strike, 15-Elusive Target, 18-Practiced Spellcaster

Essentially a CHA-based, more powerful bladesinger. Casting stat to AC? Check, except better. Ignore ASF in light armor? Check, since level 1. Quicken low level spells? Check, can't do it on as many spells, but can do it more times per day. Flurry with single longsword? Check. 8th level spells instead of 6th level spells (or 4th if using the RoF bladesinger)? Yes. Casting stat to hit? Yes. Mega bonuses on abjurations? Yes. Hell, he even has most of the same feats required of a bladesinger. And he'll have a slightly better average hitdie! The only downside for this vs a bladesinger build is less BAB...and that is more than made up for by snowflake wardance. So it pound for pound out-bladesingers the bladesinger.

A variant on the build which gets lv9 spells but no flurry is:
Half-Elf Bard1-2/Fighter1/Bard3-5/Arcane Duelist2/Bard6-7/Sublime Chord2/Abjurant Champion5/Spellsword or Ruathar3

Anyway, enough of my thesis on how weak the bladesinger class has become due to its "cool" factor. For the build at hand, if at all possible it'd probably be better to use the bladesinger from races of faerun. You could do a build like Fighter2/Duskblade3/Bladesinger10/Abjurant Champion5, maybe drop levels of abjurant champion for champion of corellon2 or witch hunter5 to improve your combat abilities.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Steelwind 10-14-06, 05:12 AM	My friend is going to replay and old 2ed charecter(the whole party is actually replaying there original converted charecters), who is a moon elf bladesinger that weilds a moonblade. Anyway he is hellbent on taking all 10 levels of bladesinger so I told him I would give him a hand based around that. My current build idea was Ftr2/Wiz4/Spellsword4/Bladesinger10(his original idea was Ftr4/Wiz6/Bladesinger10 so I think this is at least somewhat of an improval). Taking the 1st level elven wizard sub level. 1Ftr1 Wpn Focus(longsword), Dodge 2Ftr2 Combat Expertise 3Wiz1 Combat Casting 4Wiz2 5Wiz3 6Wiz4 Practiced Spellcaster 7SpS1 8SpS2 Improved Toughness 9SpS3 Arcane Strike 10SpS4 11-20Bladesinger Anyway I was wondering on some ideas for some additional feats, I was possibly thining of a 2nd Practiced Spellcaster. As well if there is a better build out there while keeping 10 levels in Bladesinger. Assume all books are allowed.
Steelwind 10-14-06, 10:28 PM	Come on guys, any input would be appriciated.
LiamDeclan 10-15-06, 01:06 AM	Get rid of 3 levels of Spellsword and take 3 levels of Eldritch Knight. That will get you 1 more caster level. You could also take 3 levels of Havoc Mage from the minatures handbook, it will let you attack and cast a spell in a full round action w/o provoking AoO's from anyone. But it would be limited on 4th level and lower spells I think. Feats take Smiting Spell (PHB II) lets you channel a touch spell into any projectile or melee weapon and lasts for 1 minute or until you strike something. Arcane Thesis, Elven Spell Lore, Energy Substitution are all good feats. If you take Elven Spell Lore don't take Energy Sub.
graymocker 10-15-06, 04:00 AM	3 levels of the swashbuckler core class from Complete Warrior would be very synergistic here and probably a better choice than a simple fighter. The only difference is that the character would probably want to switch to a rapier, because the best Swashbuckler ability - insightful strike, add INT bonus to weapon damage - only applies on weapons that can be used with finesse. You could also introduce the Elven Thinblade from Races of the Wild as an alternate exotic finessable weapon if your player wants something more longsword-flavored to go with the Wizard/Swashbuckler/Bladesinger combo.
Steelwind 10-15-06, 04:12 AM	Thanks for the ideas guys. Havoc Mage is probably out but elven spell lore and arcane thesis would be good, and swashbuckler is a no go, I know how great that int to dmg can be from my Dervish, but his main weapon is a moonblade which is a longsword and thats not gonna change.
Kuroi Kenshi 10-15-06, 03:31 PM	Maybe drop spellsword levels for abjurant champion levels? Unless you really want channel spell and another bonus feat, you'll eventually ignore ASF in light armor anyway, so you'll just plain get more from the abjurant champion. On the other hand, waiting until level 16 for ignoring ASF in light armor is pretty horrible. Just an aside, it probably won't fly, but you could easily do a bard/sublime chord/abjurant champion build whose profession and fighting style is bladesinging: Snowflake Wardance! Only one one-handed slashing weapon fighting style that runs off of bard songs? Come on :D Throw in Whirling Steel Strike and he gets to flurry with his sword just like a bladesinger, too (though that's harder to work in). He'll still get to quicken some of his lower level spells, and he'll have far superior casting. Dip 2 levels of arcane duelist for CHA to AC to emulate the bladesinger bonus, and/or dip a level of fighter before sublime chord and you're even more bladesinger-ish. Class names are only handy identifiers for collections of abilities, after all. There's much more to a character than just classes. This strip of OotS illustrates that nicely. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html) Half Elf Bard1-2/Fighter2/Monk1/Bard3-5/Arcane Duelist2/Bard6-7/Sublime Chord2/Abjurant Champion5/Spellsword1 Feats: 1-Dodge, Ftr1-Mobility, 3-Snowflake Wardance, Ftr2-WF: Longsword, 6-Whirling Steel Strike, 9-Combat Casting, 12-Arcane Strike, 15-Elusive Target, 18-Practiced Spellcaster Essentially a CHA-based, more powerful bladesinger. Casting stat to AC? Check, except better. Ignore ASF in light armor? Check, since level 1. Quicken low level spells? Check, can't do it on as many spells, but can do it more times per day. Flurry with single longsword? Check. 8th level spells instead of 6th level spells (or 4th if using the RoF bladesinger)? Yes. Casting stat to hit? Yes. Mega bonuses on abjurations? Yes. Hell, he even has most of the same feats required of a bladesinger. And he'll have a slightly better average hitdie! The only downside for this vs a bladesinger build is less BAB...and that is more than made up for by snowflake wardance. So it pound for pound out-bladesingers the bladesinger. A variant on the build which gets lv9 spells but no flurry is: Half-Elf Bard1-2/Fighter1/Bard3-5/Arcane Duelist2/Bard6-7/Sublime Chord2/Abjurant Champion5/Spellsword or Ruathar3 Anyway, enough of my thesis on how weak the bladesinger class has become due to its "cool" factor. For the build at hand, if at all possible it'd probably be better to use the bladesinger from races of faerun. You could do a build like Fighter2/Duskblade3/Bladesinger10/Abjurant Champion5, maybe drop levels of abjurant champion for champion of corellon2 or witch hunter5 to improve your combat abilities.