Bladesinger idea - worth it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bladesinger idea - worth it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ivarrius
12-31-03, 11:36 PM My DM has allowed the use of the Elven Thinblade as a prereq for Bladesinger, and with the 3.5 Comp Warrior which i just picked up, I was hoping to start a Bladesinger Character.

First off, I was looking for advice on spell selection, and whether or not Specialization was a good idea or not.

Here is my build so far, starting at level 2 -
Moon Elf
Str - 14, Dex 19, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha !0

Swashbuckler1
Swashbuckler1/Wiz1

From here should I take ftr2/wiz3 on top to get +5 base attack and the necessary feats to go into BS, should I alternate them? With my first level of BS being 8th level I will have 3rd lvl arcane spells, a decent BAB, not bad HP etc.

Any advice would be great. We are playing tomorrow but I wont need anything definite by then.

I am kinda stuck on the one level of Swashbuckler for the free weapon finesse, but everything else is up in the air. Thanks guys.
JosephKell
01-01-04, 12:20 AM Swashbuckler 1/Wizard 4/Fighter 2 seems the fastest way... but it is a pity to miss out on Insightful Strike...

Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 6 works for Rapier but you are a feat short for the Thinblade...

Let me think for a bit...

Perhaps... Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 4/Spellsword 2?

Or Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 5/EK 1?

How many levels of Bladesinger were you really planning on taking? If all 10... then... maybe just go..

Swashbucker 3/Wizard 4/Fighter 1/Bladesinger 10/Wizard 5th and 6th?
Fiendish Dire Weasel
01-01-04, 01:03 AM Swashbucker 3/Wizard 4/Fighter 1/Bladesinger 10/Wizard 5th and 6th? XP penalty :(
Perhaps... Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 4/Spellsword 2?No heavy armor proficiency for Spellsword :(

All the other prefixes JosephKell suggested are good. I may consider the Swashbuckler1/Ftr2/Wiz4 prefix and take the second and third Swashbuckler levels later on in the build for the insightful strike and skill points. Hmmm...

Swashbuckler1
Wizard1
Fighter1-2
Wizard2-4
Bladesinger1-6
Swashbuckler2-3
Bladesinger7-10
Wizard5

or maybe:

Swashbuckler1
Wizard1
Fighter1-2
Wizard2-3
Spellsword1

Then mix Bladesinger and the 2nd and 3rd level of Swashbuckler as you want since you already have 10% ASF reduction. Then stick your 4th level of Wiz on at the end.

If any of that made sense, I don't know. Happy New Year! :D
Merbeast
01-01-04, 02:03 PM Perhaps Swashbuckler3/Fig2/Wiz1 will work? BAB+5, 1st level spells, Wizard is favored for Moonelves... Admittedly, you'll end up with Caster Level 10 max after this start (assuming you take 10 levels of Bladesinger), but you'll have a great BAB and hitpoints. You can drop one CL to go for EK at the end... ending up with:
Swa3/Wiz1/Fig2/Bla10/EK4
BAB +19, hitdice (5d10+14d8+1d4) avg 93, CL 9, and able to cast in light armor without ASF.

(This level by level build solely for the purpose of appeasing JosephKell)

1) Swa1 (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Elven Thinblade*, Dodge)
2) Wiz1 (Scribe Scroll) CL1
3) Swa2 (Grace +1, Combat Casting)
4) Fig1 (Combat Expertise)
5) Fig2 (Bonus Feat)
6) Swa3 (Insightful Strike, Feat)
7) Bla1 (Bladesong Style) CL2
8) Bla2 (Lesser Spellsong)
9) Bla3 (Feat) CL3
10) Bla4 (Song of Celerity-2nd)
11) Bla5 CL4
12) Bla6 (Greater Spellsong, Feat)
13) Bla7 CL5
14) Bla8 (Song of Celerity-4th)
15) Bla9 (Feat) CL6
16) Bla10 (Song of Fury)
17) EK1 (Bonus Feat)
18) EK2 (Feat) CL7
19) EK3 CL8
20) EK4 CL9

*- Only for the purpose of this build for this campaign. Normally not an allowed weapon for Bladesinger entry. Replace as desired with Longsword or Rapier.
Ivarrius
01-04-04, 10:01 PM It looks like the style of play and my role in the group has turned slightly more towards a strong melee player, who is adept at dodging blows, and well versed in arcane tricks to keep myself alive.

I am looking at going for SWB3 for Insightful Strike.

Is it worth waiting for 9th level to take BS? My build is looking a bit like this now.

SWB3/WIZ5/BS10/EK2

Question is this... I will make the feat requirement if it is allowed that at 9th level, no matter what class you choose, you are allowed a feat. Now taking the last of the required feats at 9th level before I choose my class, would suffice, as long as my dm allows it. What do you all think?
JosephKell
01-04-04, 10:42 PM Doesn't work.

Do it level by level and you will see.

But Bladesinger requires 4 feats (1, 3, 6, 9) and Without Fighter levels you can't enter Bladesinger until your 10th character level. Throw Improved Weapon Familiarity and you are talking 12 levels or a level of fighter.
HoshiAdam
01-05-04, 12:33 AM There are 3 thing you need to balance here:
*3rd level of swashbuckler
*Keeping a decent caster level
*Getting into bladesinger as soon as possible.

If you want the third level of swashbuckler, I would recommend going Swash3/Fighter2/Wizard1 then into bladesinger and wizard alternating as desired till you get to 20. Maybe 5 levels as bladesinger then a level of wizard or 3, then back to bladesinger.

Speaking about specializing: Only consider it for divination, for true strike.

If you can talk your GM into letting you take Combat Casting as your bonus wizard feat, you could push bladesinger back to 10th level and get Swash3/Wizard6. You'll have +16 BAB at 19th and be able to cast 6th level spells.
pawsplay
01-06-04, 05:37 PM I've been toying this and I've come to two conclusions:

Swashbuckler = late entry into Bladesinger
Thinblade = late entry into Bladesinger

You could ditch Swashbuckler, and go Fighter 2/Wiz 4.

Or you could go for a late entry into Bladesinger.

suggestion 1: Swash 3/Wiz 9/Bladesinger X. This version is more casterly. High caster level, low melee survivability.

suggestion 2: Swash 5/Wiz 4/Bladesinger X. +1 AC, five fighter hit dice. A balanced progression. Optionally, take Wiz 5 for the extra Wizard Feat. It is worth noting that magical exotic weapons are rare, and you may end up having to buy or make your own. With Craft Magic Weapons and Armor, you can custom design your own, as well as a nice custom set of mithril armor.
JosephKell
01-06-04, 05:40 PM Originally posted by pawsplay
You could ditch Swashbuckler, and go Fighter 2/Wiz 4. No. You could do Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Swashbuckler 1... or Fighter 3/Wizard 4, or Fighter 4/Wizard 2... But Fighter 2/Wizard 4 just has a BAB of +4, Bladesinger needs +5.

Edit: The fastest way has been and still are: Ftr 4/Wiz 2, Bard 4/Ftr 2, and Bard 2/Ftr 4. Now you could modify it now to: Bard 2/Ftr 1/Swashbuckler 3, but you need at least one level of Fighter to get a total of four feats by level 6.

Edit 2: I thought for a moment that Hexblade 5 would work because of the Bonus Feat at level 5 (Combat Casting), but it doesn't. You would have to go Hexblade 6 to get the last feat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ivarrius 12-31-03, 11:36 PM	My DM has allowed the use of the Elven Thinblade as a prereq for Bladesinger, and with the 3.5 Comp Warrior which i just picked up, I was hoping to start a Bladesinger Character. First off, I was looking for advice on spell selection, and whether or not Specialization was a good idea or not. Here is my build so far, starting at level 2 - Moon Elf Str - 14, Dex 19, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha !0 Swashbuckler1 Swashbuckler1/Wiz1 From here should I take ftr2/wiz3 on top to get +5 base attack and the necessary feats to go into BS, should I alternate them? With my first level of BS being 8th level I will have 3rd lvl arcane spells, a decent BAB, not bad HP etc. Any advice would be great. We are playing tomorrow but I wont need anything definite by then. I am kinda stuck on the one level of Swashbuckler for the free weapon finesse, but everything else is up in the air. Thanks guys.
JosephKell 01-01-04, 12:20 AM	Swashbuckler 1/Wizard 4/Fighter 2 seems the fastest way... but it is a pity to miss out on Insightful Strike... Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 6 works for Rapier but you are a feat short for the Thinblade... Let me think for a bit... Perhaps... Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 4/Spellsword 2? Or Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 5/EK 1? How many levels of Bladesinger were you really planning on taking? If all 10... then... maybe just go.. Swashbucker 3/Wizard 4/Fighter 1/Bladesinger 10/Wizard 5th and 6th?
Fiendish Dire Weasel 01-01-04, 01:03 AM	Swashbucker 3/Wizard 4/Fighter 1/Bladesinger 10/Wizard 5th and 6th? XP penalty :( Perhaps... Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 4/Spellsword 2?No heavy armor proficiency for Spellsword :( All the other prefixes JosephKell suggested are good. I may consider the Swashbuckler1/Ftr2/Wiz4 prefix and take the second and third Swashbuckler levels later on in the build for the insightful strike and skill points. Hmmm... Swashbuckler1 Wizard1 Fighter1-2 Wizard2-4 Bladesinger1-6 Swashbuckler2-3 Bladesinger7-10 Wizard5 or maybe: Swashbuckler1 Wizard1 Fighter1-2 Wizard2-3 Spellsword1 Then mix Bladesinger and the 2nd and 3rd level of Swashbuckler as you want since you already have 10% ASF reduction. Then stick your 4th level of Wiz on at the end. If any of that made sense, I don't know. Happy New Year! :D
Merbeast 01-01-04, 02:03 PM	Perhaps Swashbuckler3/Fig2/Wiz1 will work? BAB+5, 1st level spells, Wizard is favored for Moonelves... Admittedly, you'll end up with Caster Level 10 max after this start (assuming you take 10 levels of Bladesinger), but you'll have a great BAB and hitpoints. You can drop one CL to go for EK at the end... ending up with: Swa3/Wiz1/Fig2/Bla10/EK4 BAB +19, hitdice (5d10+14d8+1d4) avg 93, CL 9, and able to cast in light armor without ASF. (This level by level build solely for the purpose of appeasing JosephKell) 1) Swa1 (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Elven Thinblade, Dodge) 2) Wiz1 (Scribe Scroll) CL1 3) Swa2 (Grace +1, Combat Casting) 4) Fig1 (Combat Expertise) 5) Fig2 (Bonus Feat) 6) Swa3 (Insightful Strike, Feat) 7) Bla1 (Bladesong Style) CL2 8) Bla2 (Lesser Spellsong) 9) Bla3 (Feat) CL3 10) Bla4 (Song of Celerity-2nd) 11) Bla5 CL4 12) Bla6 (Greater Spellsong, Feat) 13) Bla7 CL5 14) Bla8 (Song of Celerity-4th) 15) Bla9 (Feat) CL6 16) Bla10 (Song of Fury) 17) EK1 (Bonus Feat) 18) EK2 (Feat) CL7 19) EK3 CL8 20) EK4 CL9 - Only for the purpose of this build for this campaign. Normally not an allowed weapon for Bladesinger entry. Replace as desired with Longsword or Rapier.
Ivarrius 01-04-04, 10:01 PM	It looks like the style of play and my role in the group has turned slightly more towards a strong melee player, who is adept at dodging blows, and well versed in arcane tricks to keep myself alive. I am looking at going for SWB3 for Insightful Strike. Is it worth waiting for 9th level to take BS? My build is looking a bit like this now. SWB3/WIZ5/BS10/EK2 Question is this... I will make the feat requirement if it is allowed that at 9th level, no matter what class you choose, you are allowed a feat. Now taking the last of the required feats at 9th level before I choose my class, would suffice, as long as my dm allows it. What do you all think?
JosephKell 01-04-04, 10:42 PM	Doesn't work. Do it level by level and you will see. But Bladesinger requires 4 feats (1, 3, 6, 9) and Without Fighter levels you can't enter Bladesinger until your 10th character level. Throw Improved Weapon Familiarity and you are talking 12 levels or a level of fighter.
HoshiAdam 01-05-04, 12:33 AM	There are 3 thing you need to balance here: 3rd level of swashbuckler Keeping a decent caster level *Getting into bladesinger as soon as possible. If you want the third level of swashbuckler, I would recommend going Swash3/Fighter2/Wizard1 then into bladesinger and wizard alternating as desired till you get to 20. Maybe 5 levels as bladesinger then a level of wizard or 3, then back to bladesinger. Speaking about specializing: Only consider it for divination, for true strike. If you can talk your GM into letting you take Combat Casting as your bonus wizard feat, you could push bladesinger back to 10th level and get Swash3/Wizard6. You'll have +16 BAB at 19th and be able to cast 6th level spells.
pawsplay 01-06-04, 05:37 PM	I've been toying this and I've come to two conclusions: Swashbuckler = late entry into Bladesinger Thinblade = late entry into Bladesinger You could ditch Swashbuckler, and go Fighter 2/Wiz 4. Or you could go for a late entry into Bladesinger. suggestion 1: Swash 3/Wiz 9/Bladesinger X. This version is more casterly. High caster level, low melee survivability. suggestion 2: Swash 5/Wiz 4/Bladesinger X. +1 AC, five fighter hit dice. A balanced progression. Optionally, take Wiz 5 for the extra Wizard Feat. It is worth noting that magical exotic weapons are rare, and you may end up having to buy or make your own. With Craft Magic Weapons and Armor, you can custom design your own, as well as a nice custom set of mithril armor.
JosephKell 01-06-04, 05:40 PM	Originally posted by pawsplay You could ditch Swashbuckler, and go Fighter 2/Wiz 4. No. You could do Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Swashbuckler 1... or Fighter 3/Wizard 4, or Fighter 4/Wizard 2... But Fighter 2/Wizard 4 just has a BAB of +4, Bladesinger needs +5. Edit: The fastest way has been and still are: Ftr 4/Wiz 2, Bard 4/Ftr 2, and Bard 2/Ftr 4. Now you could modify it now to: Bard 2/Ftr 1/Swashbuckler 3, but you need at least one level of Fighter to get a total of four feats by level 6. Edit 2: I thought for a moment that Hexblade 5 would work because of the Bonus Feat at level 5 (Combat Casting), but it doesn't. You would have to go Hexblade 6 to get the last feat.