Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shuman 02-27-06, 11:53 AM	I tried looking but couldnt find any. Could someone please post a link. Thanks.
swanyusd 02-27-06, 11:56 AM	I really doubt there is one. Every time I see a post with bladesinger mentioned in it, everyone gets mad at the poster because you lose so many caster levels with the class. Because of this, I believe the majority of regulars here find it to be un-optimized, and therefore would doubt any handbook exists.
shuman 02-27-06, 05:32 PM	So, are you saying that it is better to have an optimized Elf Fighter/Wizard with the correct feats? What is the benefit of the PrC of Bladesinger? I wanna develop a PC with that feel, but if I would be better suited to do it a different way, please explain. Thanks for the input.
PhoenixInferno 02-27-06, 06:12 PM	If you don't mind losing the caster levels, for example if you're not the party's primary arcane caster OR primary tank AND you don't mind not being optimal, then by all means give it a shot. But if you want to be optimized, then you probably want only 1 level.
Betrayer of Hope 02-27-06, 06:15 PM	Are you looking for the Bladesinger PrC in particular or the Fighter/Wizard ("gish") archetype in general? Bladesinger loses 5 caster levels but has two good saves, full BAB, some light armor casting, a dodge bonus, and an extra attack. Not bad, but losing 6 caster levels for class abilities (in the wisdom of these boards) is like sawing your own arm off. All the best spells are at the top. A standard gish will have less class abilities (since EK has zilch), but will keep light armor casting and will get 9th level spells (shapechange anyone?) with fewer feats tied up in pre-requisites. Wizard 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight 10 or something like that will give you the 4th iterative attack and CL 17. It's hardly optimized and very vanilla, but it is a point of departure. If you'd prefer the flavor of Bladesinger, you'll just need to be aware that you're going to be losing a bunch of caster levels. I'd say that the class is not "optimal" in the absolute sense of the word, but you can make an "Optimal Bladesinger" (though I admit I'm not the person to do it).
shuman 02-28-06, 08:16 AM	I dont have my books with me, but was wondering if you could help. I was reading the thread on Champion of CL, and wondered if that may be another route. Even for an Elven F/Wiz. What Feats give you the INT bonus to AC, hit, etc. That would maximize one high ability score, as done in optimizing. I dont own all thebooks yet, and the ones I do, I dont have at my disposal for a couple of days.
Kurama Youko 02-28-06, 08:32 AM	there is no feat for that to my knowledge but if you took a few lvs in Duelist you could do that. Heres a old character I was thinking of running in a FR campaign, master of yuirwood is in the Unapproachable East a FR sourcebook. Size & Type: Medium Humanoid (Fighter 1/Wizard 2/Elf Paragon 3/Spell Sword 1/Bladesinger 9/Master of Yuirwood 4) Hit Dice: 1d10 plus 2d4 plus 3d8 plus 1d8 plus 9d8 plus 4d8 + 60 = (142) Iniatitive: +3 Speed: 30ft Armor Class: Base Attack Bonus/Grapple: +17/+20 Attack: +17 Full Attack: +17 Space / Reach: 5ft/5ft Special Attack: Spells, Special Qualities: Elf Traits, Summon Familiar, Elf Sight, Resist Enchantment, Ignore Spell Failure 10%, Bladesong Style, Lesser Spellsong, Song of Celerity 1/day, Greater Spellsong, Work Menhir Circle (Yuirwood, Faerun), Uncanny Dodge, Pass without Trace 1/day, Saves: Fort: +12 Ref: +10 Will: +13 Abilities: Str: 16 Dex: 16 Con: 16 Int: 17 Wis: 10 Cha: 10 Skills: Balance +2, Concentration +19, Knowledge (Arcane) +6, Knowledge (Nature) +5, Listen +6, Perform (Sing) +2, Perform (Dance) +2, Spellcraft +19, Spot +6, Survival +19, Tumble +19, Feats: 1st-Combat Casting, (B)Combat Expertise, (B)Scribe Scroll, 3rd-Skill Knowledge (Survival, Knowledge), (B)Weapon Focus (Long Sword), 6th-Dodge, 9th-Arcane Strike, 12th-Track, 15th-Practice Spellcaster (Wizard), 18th-Mobile Spellcasting, Environment: Organization: Challenge Rating: 20 Treasure: Alignment: Any Good Advancement: Level Adjustment: +0 Equipment: Notes: Build uses a 32 point by, the saves are base saves before feats or ability score modifiers are added so they are higher once you do add them. Base Attack Bonus is 17 before strength or weapon bonuses.
Kurama Youko 02-28-06, 08:35 AM	in retrospect of the build above i realized this if your DM allows you to use the Wizard variant presented in the Unearthed Arcana you can take fighter bonus feats in place of the wizard bonus feats, this also means you drop scribe scroll for a 1st lv fighter bonus feat, thus you could drop the lv of fighter for say Ranger thus getting track for free and then using the bonus fighter feat for Combat Expertise (one of the requirements for BS) thus freeing up your 12th lv feat slot.
Hanniball 02-28-06, 09:51 AM	What Feats give you the INT bonus to AC, hit, etc. No feats that I'm aware of, but Swashbuckler 3 gets Int to damage. either way...just my 0.02 cp
jstorrie 02-28-06, 11:01 AM	The only real way to get around Bladesinger's weakness is to use it to progress an accelerated casting class. Even then, at best you'll get 7th level spells. Still, try a Nar Demonbinder or Sublime Chord out. They may work a bit better than straight Wizard or whatever.
Surreal 02-28-06, 11:31 AM	Hmm, maybe something like Swashbuckler3/Hexblade3/Suel Arcanamach 4/Bladesinger 10. Not the most optimal and requires good Dex, Int and Cha, but there's Int and Cha synergy and the flavour feels right.
PhoenixInferno 02-28-06, 12:00 PM	No feats that I'm aware of, but Swashbuckler 3 gets Int to damage. either way...just my 0.02 cp Carmendine Monk (Champions of Valor) will give you INT to AC instead of WIS to AC. Of course, I'm pretty sure you need to be a Monk to take it.