Post/Author/DateTime	Post
blackbrrrd 10-10-03, 09:53 AM	Here is a bladesinger build.. any suggestions for improvements? Power attack is to be used together with song of celerity granting free quicken spell to the characters true strikes :) (for instance +10 to hit, +10 to damage) Sun Elf Rogue3 Bard2 Fighter2 Bladesinger10 HolyLiberator3 Rogue1 WF Rapier Rogue2 Rogue3 Combat casting Fighter1 Expertise Fighter2 Dodge Bard1 Still spell Bard2 Bladesinger1 Bladesinger2 Combat Reflexes, Expert tactian Bladesinger3 Bladesinger4 Bladesinger5 Improved critical Rapier, Power attack Bladesinger6 Song of celerity Bladesinger7 Bladesinger8 Mobility, Iron will HolyLiberator1 HolyLiberator2 HolyLiberator3 Divine Might Bladesinger9 Bladesinger10 Base attack +18 Saves are 12 / 14 / 18 (with iron will, but before divine grace)
Israfel666 10-10-03, 10:09 AM	Switch the Bard levels for Wizard. Same BAB (+1, unless you use breakdown), better spells, and I don't think you will use bardic music as a bladesinger. Switch Mobility for Improved Feint, to take advantage of those 2 sneak attack dice. (important) Get Weapon Finesse at 9th, move Expert Tactician at 12th, drop Improved Critical and get a keen rapier instead.
rich2939 10-10-03, 10:20 AM	Can't take weapon focus with level 1 rogue.
Dr Durothil 10-10-03, 12:13 PM	Excellent build. Don't worry too much about the Bard vs. Wiz part of the story, though. Considering that there are over 120 posts in another thread debating which is better, I guess it means that they are pretty much equal :) . With average stats, a Wiz-based BS is better, but otherwise, a good set of stats can support a good enough charisma, especially with weapon finesse (look, if you don't plan to get this, don't even consider a rapier). If you plan to take this character to Epic levels, you could afford to have a low strength and take the Combat Insight feat to switch your damage mod to intelligence (rather than strength). Have fun.
Israfel666 10-10-03, 12:24 PM	I insist that Wiz is better than Bard *for the purpose of taking only two levels*. You have a slight advantage in HD, skill points and Reflex saves, but the Wizard a) relies on the same stat as the BS; b) gives you Scribe Scroll [there are TONS of scroll-good spells at level 1]; c) gives you a familiar; d) gives you MUCH better spells. As an addition, a specialist is a _very_ good idea for this kind of build. Specialize in Transmutation (Enlarge Person) or Abjuration (Shield), drop Enchantment and Evocation.
Dain 10-10-03, 06:01 PM	And I insist that bard is better. Better HD, Much more and better skills, better reflex saves, bardic songs (which will help not only you, but your entire party). The ONLY reason you would want to go wizard is if you planned on getting more caster levels, which you obviously don't. So don't bother, unless you have bad stats. Israfel - what are you talking about "for the purpose of taking only two levels? That's exactly the kind of situation where bard is best, which the hardcore wiz-fans also have acknowlegded on the bard BS vs. wiz BS thread. All the wizard 1st level spells you will be using as a melee BS buff spells, which are in the BS spell list anyway. But as a bard you can supplement your repitoire with something like Cure Light Wounds, for example. As I already have stated - the only reason ever you would want wizard levels in a BS build is if you have got bad stats or if you want to DO something with the casterlevels - for example by adding Eldritch Knight levels in the build.
Boondoggle 10-10-03, 07:28 PM	And I insist this thread not be derailed into the other thread.
catharz 10-10-03, 08:32 PM	If you're taking levels in Rogue, wizard is probably better than bard. However, you might want to consider dropping rogue and going Bard 4/Fighter 2 (or vice-versa) if half-elf, or Bard 2/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2 if elven. Then toss in 2 levels of Arcane duelist (assuuming you're charisma is high enough to make the HL worthwhile, it sould be worth it).