Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MushroomSpore 12-13-04, 12:27 AM	While going over the possibilities for my World's Greatest Dungeon character, and reading over the other WLD optimization thread that just popped up (in which one poster with some WLD experience went on at length over the importance of roles in the group), I had a few neat ideas on the possibilities of the Soulknife, specifically BlaineTog's gorgeous slightly-fixed version (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=310984&page=1&pp=30). If I'm right, I think I've found my WLD character. :D Even on its own, this Soulknife is pretty excellent. Go with high Dex and Weapon Finesse, and you have a rogue-ish warrior with a customized weapon you can't ever lose and the stealth and mobility skills to be an excellent scout, though you will lack the trapfinding and lockpicking of a real rogue-scout. (However, if you have a rogue buddy to go along with you? Suddenly there's TWO sets of Listen/Spot checks, plus you can back your friend up if trouble happens.) A lot of people in BlaineTog's thread seemed more concerned with just straightforward damage, but it seems to me that a fighter or rogue will easily outshine the class in that department (and well they should, really). My plan is to focus on the things the Soulknife can do that no other class can. Even at lower levels, you can use your Sleight of Hand class skill to sneak in and yoink an enemy spellcaster's component pouch or divine focus, then creep back to your party and prepare for the attack. ;) Granted, a rogue can do this just as easily, but I'm just getting started. (Besides, if you and a rogue BOTH go, that's two chances to steal what you're after. Once you get it, either attack or run back to the rest of the party, depending on whether or not the spellcaster has tough friends with him.) Next comes the psionic feats. Awesomeness like Psionic Weapon and Deep Impact and the like aside, this is where you can get *mobility*. Speed of Thought, Psionic Charge, Up the Walls...combine this with the Xeph's racial speed-boosting ability, and you can be right next to that enemy spellcaster in a heartbeat. (And people say Xephs aren't awesome. All it takes is a little thought. ;) ) At which point, of course, you will plant your Psychic Strike-charged weapon in their gut, without having to worry about qualifying like a rogue would for sneak attack. Speaking of rogues, if that rogue buddy of yours Tumbles after you to go after this same spellcaster, he can use you for flank bonuses, which means sneak attack. Even if the spellcaster tries to back away, your Xeph speed boost lasts another two rounds, and you can go after him. No more Psychic Strikes if you're moving, but at this point he should be hurting plenty as it is. And now comes the real candy: Knife to the Soul at level 13. Granted, you might encounter spellcasters with insanely high spellcasting scores, but combine this with attempts to pickpocket their stat-boosting items (bring your rogue buddy!), and you could nullify their spellcasting entirely within a couple rounds. -Note that if it is indeed possible to charge dual Mind Blades for Psychic Strike, which I cannot find a ruling on one way or the other...even if your DM rules that you give up a die of PS damage on each blade just like you give up +1 of enhancements, that's still a very nice boost to damage or to Knife to the Soul. At level 19, that's 8 damage to their spellcasting stat. And with the feat "Fill the Blade" (see thread) available at 15th level, you can recharge a mindblade as a swift action. Furthermore, at 20, your Psychic Strike can be used a second time before you need to recharge. I'm no good at math, but that sounds like fun. ;) If you have a rogue buddy AND a monk (has the speed to keep up with you and the Stunning Attacks to keep the wizard still while you wreck his casting stat) buddy, the three of you could concievably be the greatest stealthy-scouting, mage-destroying team imaginable. Just a rogue or just a monk along would be nothing to sneeze at either. Throw in some of the Mage Slayer feat tree on at least one character for maximum pain. The biggest problem that comes to mind is being able to tell whether you're looking at a sorcerer or a wizard, to know what stat you should damage with Knife to the Soul. Possibly Spot checks to notice a spellbook, or just spying on any conversation/interaction between the NPCs and asking if the caster seems really charismatic. ;) You could get in trouble with the odd charismatic wizard, but them's the risks. Last note: with BlaineTog's Exotic Mindblade Shape feat, you could have the option of turning your blade into a reach weapon. Besides making your other tricks even more effective (this plus Up the Walls and Spring Attack would be excellent), you could get Combat Reflexes and Stand Still. I've heard that teleportation spells don't work in the WLD, so that enemy mage? :evillaugh Anyway, thoughts? Suggestions? I'm really growing quite fond of this take on a Xeph Soulknife, as a scout/backup warrior who can also grow into a very awesome mage killer. And I think I'm going to have to ask around and see if any of the other players are thinking about playing a rogue or monk who will be my friend. ;)
Tempest Stormwind 12-13-04, 12:55 AM	Knife to the Soul also works well against anything with a low mental score. Found a min/maxed munchin barbarian with 3 charisma charging you? Hit him and watch him curl up and hit a coma in one hit. (It's never going to be that dramatic except against animals, but you get the idea) You've hit on the mobile, built-for-sniping feel for the soulknife, so the rest is all in execution. Remember you can also ready an action from level 2 on to throw your blade (up to 150 feet!), regardless of the form, with the trigger "If he starts casting" -- Throw Mind Blade is underrated. If you're going for the "Mage Slayer" feel, though, look at Complete Arcane for a feat of the same name. The CL (ML) hit would be a problem for ANY other psionic class (except pyrokineticists), but it is not an issue for a Soulknife. ^_^ And speaking from experience, Blaine's version should have been the one in print -- and the one I used didn't even bother with Exotic Mindblade Shape.
MushroomSpore 12-13-04, 01:27 AM	Knife to the Soul also works well against anything with a low mental score. Found a min/maxed munchin barbarian with 3 charisma charging you? Hit him and watch him curl up and hit a coma in one hit. Haha, I didn't even think of that angle. And there's quite a lot of critters in the MM with at least one cruddy mental ability-reduce that to 0, and then coup de gras (or let the fighter do it if you're feeling nice, waha). And befriend a cleric or wizard and work together with Bestow Curse (a good -6 ability penalty start) to really put the hurt on any mental ability fast! You've hit on the mobile, built-for-sniping feel for the soulknife, so the rest is all in execution. Remember you can also ready an action from level 2 on to throw your blade (up to 150 feet!), regardless of the form, with the trigger "If he starts casting" -- Throw Mind Blade is underrated. Mmm, readied actions. Throw Mind Blade is definitely not something to forget about, though I don't know that I'd want to wait until the caster was already getting started. ;) I've got a tentative list of possible feats now. With the Soulknife's five psionic bonus feats, I've got a lot of spaces to fill. :) Though obviously some will have to be dropped, I am far from decided yet. -Cloak Dance (EPH, spend a move action to gain concealment or a full action for full concealment. Instant hide checks and enemy miss chances, whee!) -Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack -Exotic Mindblade Shape: Longspear (Reach means better drive-by hits with Spring Attack and better mage-pinning shenanigans with Stand Still) -Fill the Blade (level 15, can charge Psychic Strike as swift action) -Improved Initiative (should be obvious ;) ) -Mage Slayer, and maybe one or two of the feats that use it as a pre-req -Open Minded (+5 skill points. Not vital, but could be nice.) -Psionic Weapon and Greater Psionic Weapon -Speed of Thought -Stand Still -Track (You have Survival, so why not? At least if there's no ranger in the group. Though I've heard no news about how much use this gets in the World's Largest Dungeon campaign.) -Two-Weapon Fighting, etc (more attacks is nice, but I don't know that I'd go beyond the first TWF, and that only if you can charge dual mindblades. Low BAB means the insane penalties would kill accuracy, plus you wouldn't do enough damage to make up for it after the first couple hits anyway.) -Up the Walls (Combat madness. As an added bit of random fun, you can hurry partway up a wall to tie a rope your friends can climb. It's not just for combat! :) ) -Weapon Finesse (Would this apply regardless of the mindblade's shape, like with a Sun Blade in bastard sword form? At least, I think it worked on a bastard sword SB in 3.0) Thoughts? :) (EDIT: Forgot Mage Slayer.)
Tempest Stormwind 12-13-04, 01:42 AM	On readied actions: You can disrupt the spell. From 150 feet away, with bastard-sword damage. You can't disrupt if you simply move and attack. Up the Walls is outstanding, I might add. The Psionic Weapon set works well for the one-hit-wonder version of the soulknife, too. Weapon Finesse would only apply to the short sword version of the mind blade (only Light weapon), so it's less useful. Shame, really. Bladewind is underrated, especially if you're using a longspear -- for one thing, psychic strike damage applies to everything in that attack, including Knife to the Soul damage. If you wish, mix it with Deep Impact and become your own little mini-Touch of Idiocy storm at 9th level. ^_^ Let us have a look at your final build! By the way, I fixed the Feedback feats I was working on in that thread a while ago, but I never posted them since I didn't think people wanted me to bring that up again. If you're interested...?
MushroomSpore 12-13-04, 08:49 AM	Weapon Finesse would only apply to the short sword version of the mind blade (only Light weapon), so it's less useful. Shame, really. Pity. Not only do xephs have +2 Dex, they also have -2 Str. So that's -2 to hit over what might have been if I go the longspear route. And then there's that whole "lack of free hand for a shield" thing, which is also too bad. I may take WF anyway, in case there are times I'd prefer to switch for whatever reason. You never know. Let us have a look at your final build! Will do! :) I've got to get going now (four and a half hours of finals, yee-hah), but I will probably spend the afternoon at least narrowing down my feat options a little, and rolling stats and whatnot. By the way, I fixed the Feedback feats I was working on in that thread a while ago, but I never posted them since I didn't think people wanted me to bring that up again. If you're interested...? Weren't those the ones that turned Psychic Strike into daze/stun/etc attacks? Sign me up, I'd love to see the new ones! :D
MushroomSpore 12-13-04, 11:17 AM	Okay, I've got a few minutes before my next exam and nothing better to do than start organizing my feats list. ;) The total number and levels of feats gained by the BT Soulknife are as follows (all Bonus feats must be psionic): 1- 1-Weapon Focus (Mindblade), Wild Talent 2-(Bonus)- 3- 6- 6-(Bonus)- 9- 10-(Bonus) 12- 14-(Bonus) 15- 18- 18-(Bonus)- Level 15 MUST be "Fill the Blade", that's just too good not to take as soon as possible. I'd like to start with Exotic Mindblade Shape (longspear) at level one. That leaves me with the five psionic bonus feats, and five more regular feats. Improved Initiative Cloak Dance (concealment at will is too sweet a defensive ability to give up, especially since a two-handed mindblade means no shield) Mage Slayer -Pierce Magical Protection -Pierce Magical Concealment (and the pre-req Blind Fight) Stand Still Dodge -Mobility -Spring Attack (this tree is pretty much required) Obviously, the normal feats are where I'm most conflicted. The Dodge tree and Stand Still don't leave much room, but Mage Slayer is awesome and its advanced cousins are further icing on the spellcaster-whomping cake. As for Improved Initiative, I guess I could live without it, but I've taken it for every character ever and I'd just plain feel naked. ;) Especially since I can't afford to neglect Strength much since I'm using a longspear instead of something finesseable, so Dex might well not be my highest ability (note to self: roll stats after test). Psionic Weapon -Greater Psionic Weapon Speed of Thought Up the Walls ...need a fifth psionic feat. Maybe Ghost Attack, though there aren't a whole lot of Incorporeal critters, comparatively speaking (this is for the WLD campaign, after all). Psionic Meditation allows for becoming psionically focused again as a move action, but I don't forsee getting much use out of that-I'll be using Psyshic Strike more than Psionic Weapon. Psionic Charge? I'm out of time and have to get to my next exam. Will think on this further later. :)
Tempest Stormwind 12-13-04, 11:32 AM	Essentially the Feedback feats each altered themselves as follows: Give up (one, two or three, depending on which feat was used) Psychic Strike dice to enable the effect. The Will save DC is 10+Soulknife's Charisma modifier+ twice the number of psychic strike dice that you gave up. The remaining dice (not sacrificed) can still be imbued as Knife to the Soul Damage if you want. The DC is still a bit high(12, 14, 16 +cha each time), but considering how the prerequisites for each feat require you to have one higher psychic strike than the value given (after all, if you deal no actual extra damage, it doesn't trigger the effect), I figured it wasn't too bad. Before I decided to stop working on them, I was trying to work in an expend-focus augment, but I decided to keep it simple. Psychic Meditation is always a good thing, particularily if you want to make use of Greater Psionic Weapon with any frequency, or want to use it at all and still keep Up the Walls running. GPW works wonders when trying to disrupt casters, by the way -- at third level, using that with a psychic strike can force a concentration check (DC 10+1d6+4d6+1d8+strength = probably too high). Note the brunt of that is the GPW. I'd suggest: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection. Unless you can go without the Spring Attack tree, you're not going to be able to get the other feats. (You can get all the Mage Slayer ones, plus either Improved Init or Stand Still (or both if you can go without Pierce Magical Protection), if you ditch the Spring Attack tree, but the choice is yours)
MushroomSpore 12-13-04, 02:10 PM	Psychic Meditation is always a good thing, particularily if you want to make use of Greater Psionic Weapon with any frequency, or want to use it at all and still keep Up the Walls running. GPW works wonders when trying to disrupt casters, by the way -- at third level, using that with a psychic strike can force a concentration check (DC 10+1d6+4d6+1d8+strength = probably too high). Note the brunt of that is the GPW. I hadn't thought of it that way. I'd been planning to mainly use GPW as an "emergency strike", or if I had just done a charge along the walls with my insane speed and feel like unloading every possible ounce of damage on the target caster in some sort of insane kamikaze run. :D Still, you're right, and Psychic Meditation could make that insane strike possible way more often, as well as regaining my focus to run the heck away on my next turn. I'm also dropping Stand Still from my potential build, as it requires Combat Reflexes to become truly sick, and plus I don't plan on being in one place long enough to really get any use out of it. ;) So now what I'm thinking about is: 1-Exotic Mindblade Shape (longspear) 1-Weapon Focus (Mindblade), Wild Talent 2-(Bonus)- 3- 6- 6-(Bonus)- 9- 10-(Bonus) 12- 14-(Bonus) 15-Fill the Blade 18- 18-(Bonus)- Normal feat options: Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack (bab +4) Mage Slayer (bab +3) -Pierce Magical Protection Psionic feat options: Psionic Meditation (Concentration 7 ranks, so level 6 is the earliest feat slot) Psionic Weapon/Greater Psionic Weapon (bab +5) Speed of Thought -Psionic Charge Up the Walls So I'm down to exactly the right number of normal feats, and only need to eliminate one feat from my psionic options. The biggest problem left is what *order* to take the feats in. I suffer from chronic want-it-now-itis...I can't stand putting off a cool feat until later. ;) I think I may have to leave that decision entirely in the hands of the CO board, because they know best what you *really* shouldn't wait to get and what won't be as useful as it looks until a bit later. Each of the feats meshes rather well into my insane tactics of insanity. Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack, and Speed of Thought, and Up the Walls, plus having a mindblade with reach, means that there is almost nowhere I can't get to-or run by-and attack. And having that reach means I can still stay away from the casters' melee buddies. Psionic Charge would be icing on the cake...at 9th level, a xeph's racial speed boost (3/day, 3 rounds per use) gives +30 to speed. That and Speed of Thought is 70 feet, 140 on a charge. (With that kind of speed, if another player builds a monk, the two of us can zoom in and have that spellcaster wrecked and stunned before he even knows what hit him. :evillaugh ) And that's without items: Boots of Striding and Springing would raise it another 10 feet, to 80 feet during a xeph speed boost and 160 on a charge. Granted, I haven't gotten to use the charge action before, haven't played that sort of character. How might one use the Psionic Charge feat (one turn of up to 90 degrees) effectively? Or *is* it worth it? And of course, Mage Slayer means that a spellcaster within ten feet of me not only cannot move without getting an AoO hit to his face, but cannot cast defensively either. Pierce Magical Protection is pretty good-instantly dispel all AC boosting spells, all you have to do is hit with your attack. Though I don't know how good this would be at higher levels-won't most enemy spellcasters have *items* to boost their AC instead? No, I haven't forgotten about Throw Mindblade, but Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Protection require melee. And also I don't like the accuracy penalties for a lot of range increments, and mid-high level casters would probably keep a good bit further away than 30 feet. So I want to be able to use either tactic. :) Throwing will be easy, move action to recharge Psychic Strike (or refocus if/when I take Psionic Meditation), throw, repeat on next round, etc.
MushroomSpore 12-13-04, 02:39 PM	I just realized that I hadn't taken into account the options of mindblade enhancements, either! Granted, the "best of the best" isn't on the enhancement list, but what's there certainly is not without potential. Distance, at a lowly +1, means a thrown mindblade has a range increment of 60. You can take this as early as level 4, if you don't mind not having an enhancement bonus on your weapon. That's, uh, very nice. :evillaugh Keen is alright, and certain to be useful in more situations than the various elemental and aligned enhancements (at 8 hours to swap out, I want a nice multipurpose build except for when preparing for really nasty things). Collision is 5 points of nonelemental damage on every hit. Suppression is a bit of an odd duck to have on the soulknife list. It's a free dispel psionics (and also magic if you play with transparency), but you roll d20+5+your manifester level to use it...but soulknives have no manifester level, so it's just d20+5 against dc 11+enemy caster/manifester level. Unless you can use soulknife as manifester levels for this purpose, or you use the manifester level of a normal Suppression weapon (10), I can't imagine it being as good as it ought to be. If it could actually be made to work, though...you wouldn't need Pierce Magical Protection anymore, certainly.
Tempest Stormwind 12-13-04, 05:12 PM	I'm not much of a fan of Psionic Charge. It is certainly most useful in close-quarters (as you can charge around corners, but you have to know an opponent is there), however, using it requires expending your focus, so it has TERRIBLE synergy with Up the Walls or Psionic Weapon. Supression weapons are tricky, but not for the reason you think. I personally read that as the manifester level OF THE WEAPON. This means it can be added to a fighter's sword or similar weapon and he still has a shot at dispelling things. That said, I have NO idea what the ML of a mind blade is. Carry a secondary weapon designed for DR piercing, if you find one. Rely on the parts of the blade that do damage beyond physical -- psychic strike, enhancements, and psionic weapon -- if you attack a DR opponent. By the way, I don't know if Collision's damage is subject to critical hit multiplication or not, nor do I know if it's actually subject to DR. The answer's either both no or both yes. If you plan on using Distance, it gives you even less reason to use Psionic Charge, by the way. Chuck your blade a few times at things (especially nice at 5th level, when you can throw one with a psychic strike every round) and you won't even need to charge.