Blastificer Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blastificer Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zarzak
08-16-06, 11:34 PM So I've been looking around the boards at the various optimization threads, and I can't quite figure out how to optimize a blastificer.

I'd definitely like him to dual wield wands, and I'd like to stay away from 'exotic' races (ie. warforged scout, etc.). Thus, race-wise I was thinking either human (extra feat and bonus skill points, plus can take Mark of Making for the Cannith Wand Adept) or warforged (wand sheathe(!!), and the first two artificer substitution levels ... can also do favored in house to get into Cannith Wand Adept, but not sure if thats worth it).

Feat-wise, I want to take some metamagic feats to get the most out of my wands, and also get some more crafting stuff in. Heres where I run into real trouble ... I'm not sure what to do!

Either way, for my artificer bonus feats I'd want Craft Construct, Extra Rings, and Wand Mastery. If I take it up to artificer 20th I'd also probably want Extraordinary Artisan.

For my other feats, I'm definitely thinkng Two Weapon Fighting -> Dual Wand Wielding. For metamagic definitely Quicken Spell, Twin Spell, and Energy admixture.

Here's where I'm not sure what to do. I'm looking at Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Least Dragonmark - Mark of Making (if human), Etch Schema, Craft Contingent Item, and Eldeen plant grafter/elemental grafter/death grafter. I'm not sure about the worth of Imp. Homunculus and Rapid Infusion, and Item Familiar seems a bit iffy to use in a campaign. Reach Spell and Energy Substitution are also tempting. Simply too many good feat options!

And, is Cannith Wand Adept worth it for a blastificer? The dual-wielding feat tree is much better than the cannith wand adept's dual wielding ability, and the imp. dragonmark isn't that useful. But wand quick draw and siphon charge are pretty great, and the Wand Focus is pretty awesome. But is it worth two feats (least dragonmark/favored in house, and giving up an artificer bonus feat), plus the craft reserve and casting levels?

That said, what do people recommend for a blastificer build race-wise, feat-wise, and is cannith wand adept worth it?

Thanks a ton!
Caelic
08-16-06, 11:53 PM I'd just go with a straight human. The extra feat and skill points are very useful to an Artificer, and hey--there's a certain amount of class to keeping a low profile until you need to blow a continent-sized hole in something.

If you're using action points, definitely consider Wand Surge. Coupled with a Persistent Unfettered Heroism, it can save you a LOT of money in terms of charges expended. While we're on the subject, see if you can fit in Extend and Persistent Spell...even for a dedicated Blastificer, they're well worth the effort to take.
zarzak
08-17-06, 01:01 AM so if I do human (and forget about cannith wand adept), that gives me 8 feats and 4 bonus feats, for 12 feats total.

bonus feats would be:
1) construct construct
2) wand mastery
3) extra rings
4) extraordinary artisan

My 8 feats then become
1) two weapon fighting
2) double wand wielding
3) quicken spell
4) twin spell
5) energy admixture
6) point blank shot? wand surge?
7) persistent spell? precise shot?
8) extend spell? etch schema? craft contingent item? grafter feat?

???

Help!
Caelic
08-17-06, 01:14 AM Skip point blank shot and precise shot...not because they're not good feats, but because you can provide them for yourself by using the Heroics spell from the Spell Compendium.
PhoenixInferno
08-17-06, 02:03 AM So I've been looking around the boards at the various optimization threads, and I can't quite figure out how to optimize a blastificer.Its hard to miss entries in the Index under "Artificer".

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287275
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=520855
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=373293
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=387497
zarzak
08-17-06, 02:17 AM I've read those posts (well, at least the first few pages of each), and while they helped me narrow down race and feat choices (and discard pretty much all prcs), and helped me figure out how to play an artificer, I still need a bit more help to optimize a blastificer.

Now its looking like a human artificer 20

I miscounted the bonus feats (silly me)

bonus feats would be:
4) extraordinary artisan
8) craft construct
12) extra rings
16) wand mastery
20) energy admixture

My 8 feats then become
1) two weapon fighting
1) extend spell
3) quicken spell
6) twin spell
9) double wand wielder
12) etch schemal
15) bind elemental
18) persistent spell

I'm thinking, as cool as grafts are, they're not that useful to an artificer, and they dont' really fit the 'theme' I have in mind (item creation and blasting things).

And, as good as wand surge is, its limited as this build doesn't have a good way to get more action points, but it is very easy to make more wands.

So how does this feat lineup look? Is there any way to improve it? Make a better blastificer w/it?
aelryinth
08-17-06, 05:15 AM You want wand mastery a LOT sooner. And you can't take extra rings until you get Craft Ring at 15?.. Try to take Wand Mastery at 8th so you get many levels of play out of the +2 bonus. Those are the levels at which wand masters tend to shine the most.

Persistent Spell you also want early. It's the ability to abuse Persistent Spell and let your wands uber buff you (or your friends) which also give the artificer a lot of his power.

Etch Schema and Bind Elemental are completely optional and really unneccessary unless you are building a crafter...and if you are building a tool maker, you don't want most of these combat feats. As someone else noted, may as well take two levels of Chameleon and use the floating feat to grab these feats when you need them.

===Aelryinth
zarzak
08-17-06, 09:55 AM For some reason I thought forge ring was at 12th ... thats what I get for trying to remember this stuff. :p Its actually at 14th.

I'd rather stay artificer 20 then go into chameleon, so I think I can live without the item creation feats (I do want to stay blastificer).

That gives me:
bonus:
4) ??? Extraordinary Artisan ???
8) Wand Surge
12) Twin Spell
20) ??? Craft Construct ???

1) Two Weapon Fighting
1) Extend Spell
3) Energy Substitution
6) Persistent Spell
9) Wand Mastery
12) Double Wand Wielder
15) Extra Rings
18) Energy Admixture

Forgot about the energy substitutino pre-req to eneryg admixture. whoops.

That said, how does this feat progression look?

Is there anything better for a blstificer then Extraodinary Aristan and Craft Construct (constructs are always nice to have).

Extend spell maybe?

And what is a good level to take persistent spell?
prototype00
08-17-06, 10:54 AM You know, instead of dual wand weilding (which can get expensive), I personally preferred the dragon prophesier-prophecy artifex combo found in Magic of Eberron. You get to blast twice (both twinned, of course) just like the dual wand weilder, and it only costs you one more charge as opposed to the what was it? 1d4 charges?, that you have to use as a dual wand weilder.

Furthermore it saved you from taking two weapon fighting, quite useless for a blastificier really.

Of course if this is about the stylin, then certain unoptimized options can probably be used.

prototype00

Ah, managed to dig up the old build, here it is:

Lysander Vown d'Cannith
Human Artificer 17/ Cannith Wand Adept 3

"If weapons are instuments, then I'd much rather be a Conductor."

Artificer1: Pointblank Shot/ Precise Shot/ Scribe Scroll
Artificer2: Brew potion
Artificer3: Favored in House (Cannith) / Craft Wondrous item
Artificer4: Craft Homunculous/ Extraordinary Artisan
Artificer5: Craft Magic Arms and Armor
Artificer6: Craft Wand/ Empower Spell
Artificer8: Twin Spell (Complete arcane)
Artificer9: Craft Rod/ Wand Mastery
Artificer9/CWA3: Least Dragonmark (Making)/ Dragon Prophesier
Artificer12/CWA3: Craft Staff/ Legendary Artisan/ Prophecy Artifex
Artificer14/CWA3: Forge Ring
Artificer15/CWA3: Wand Surge
Artificer16/CWA3: Extra Rings

You'd craft all your own stuff and blast twice/round with twinned wands of acid/sonic orbs or flaming spheres.

After you get to Level 18 and got wand surge, you could basically have unfettered heroism on you all the time for free charges to the wand.

No persistant cheese though, but I feel this build has enough of its own merit not to need that.

I also had a list of equipment that I had this character craft at level 13, if you're interested.

prototype00
zarzak
08-18-06, 02:14 AM You know, instead of dual wand weilding (which can get expensive), I personally preferred the dragon prophesier-prophecy artifex combo found in Magic of Eberron. You get to blast twice (both twinned, of course) just like the dual wand weilder, and it only costs you one more charge as opposed to the what was it? 1d4 charges?, that you have to use as a dual wand weilder.

Furthermore it saved you from taking two weapon fighting, quite useless for a blastificier really.

Of course if this is about the stylin, then certain unoptimized options can probably be used.

prototype00

Ah, managed to dig up the old build, here it is:

Lysander Vown d'Cannith
Human Artificer 17/ Cannith Wand Adept 3

"If weapons are instuments, then I'd much rather be a Conductor."

Artificer1: Pointblank Shot/ Precise Shot/ Scribe Scroll
Artificer2: Brew potion
Artificer3: Favored in House (Cannith) / Craft Wondrous item
Artificer4: Craft Homunculous/ Extraordinary Artisan
Artificer5: Craft Magic Arms and Armor
Artificer6: Craft Wand/ Empower Spell
Artificer8: Twin Spell (Complete arcane)
Artificer9: Craft Rod/ Wand Mastery
Artificer9/CWA3: Least Dragonmark (Making)/ Dragon Prophesier
Artificer12/CWA3: Craft Staff/ Legendary Artisan/ Prophecy Artifex
Artificer14/CWA3: Forge Ring
Artificer15/CWA3: Wand Surge
Artificer16/CWA3: Extra Rings

You'd craft all your own stuff and blast twice/round with twinned wands of acid/sonic orbs or flaming spheres.

After you get to Level 18 and got wand surge, you could basically have unfettered heroism on you all the time for free charges to the wand.

No persistant cheese though, but I feel this build has enough of its own merit not to need that.

I also had a list of equipment that I had this character craft at level 13, if you're interested.

prototype00

The Dual Wand Wielding feat only sucks up 1 additional charge on the off-hand wand - its much better than the Cannith Wand Adept equivalent.

So, it ends up being pretty similar feat-wise, its just more about style there I think. :cool:

Then, of course there is the persistent spell unfettered heroism cheese. :D
prototype00
08-18-06, 03:08 AM So thats basically three charges for two spells/ round. Whereas my character can do about the same for two charges. Well, I suppose if you really really really like dual wand wielding and wasting a feat on two weapon fighting...

I'm not sure how you're going to get persistant unfettered heroism, its too high level to fit in a wand, isn't it? I could probably imagine a custom magic item that casts it however many times/day, but you wouldn't need to persist that would you?

So I'm slightly curious, what spells, besides unfettered heroism (which might not even be possible, or needed) are you going to have persisted on yourself? Strength boosting spells? You're not the meleeficier. Stuff like fly and freedom of movement? You can just make items that do that, much cheaper than draining wands. Combat spells with durations? Battles only last for so long when you can do 76d6 worth of damage/ round without resorting to cheesy rules.

So it just doesn't make sense to me. Instead of persistant spell which would have minimal impact on my blastificing, I would personally take twin spell, which has a massive impact on my ability to kill stuff in one round with magic. With prophecy artifex, you can blast off two twinned empowered scorching rays in one round. 72 d 6 damage. Kills most things without fire resistance and spell resistance.

prototype00
FriendlyFrog
08-18-06, 03:19 AM I'm not sure how you're going to get persistant unfettered heroism, its too high level to fit in a wand, isn't it? I could probably imagine a custom magic item that casts it however many times/day, but you wouldn't need to persist that would you?
A minor schema (Magic of Eberron) of Unfettered heroism is the key for this. They're basically like scrolls, but can be used 1/day.
prototype00
08-18-06, 03:23 AM Alright, I can see that. But Zarzark is taking persistant spell (which required extend spell of course) just for that? Its not really required, in my opinion.

prototype00
Caelic
08-18-06, 07:52 AM So I'm slightly curious, what spells, besides unfettered heroism (which might not even be possible, or needed) are you going to have persisted on yourself? Strength boosting spells? You're not the meleeficier. Stuff like fly and freedom of movement? You can just make items that do that, much cheaper than draining wands. Combat spells with durations? Battles only last for so long when you can do 76d6 worth of damage/ round without resorting to cheesy rules.

Oh ye of little faith! There's Persistent Instant Search, for starters. How valuable is it to the party to have the trap-finder constantly searching for traps without slowing the party down in any appreciable way? Instant Locksmith is nice, though not quite as useful.

More to the point, an Artificer doesn't just persist spells for himself. With a bit of foresight and planning, he can persist them for every member of the group. Persistent Bite of the Wereboar may not be titanically useful to the party Blastificer (though a boost in natural armor, strength, and constitution should always be welcome to every character,) but it's extremely useful to the party Druid, who can use that wand once you've metamagicked it.

That said, I agree with you that Twin Spell is the wrong thing to give up. In fact, it's the last thing I'd give up--it adds as much utility to the Artificer as Persistent.
Elderich
08-18-06, 12:39 PM A duel wand weilder is a weak build. A staff weilder will win every time.

A build that does not mature untill staffs are the mainstay of the game makes no sense.

As well one could weild two staffs AND/OR quicken and blow as many spells as one has attacks anyway, as quickend staffs are a free action.

A wand build 1)costs feats 2)Limits you to 4L or less spells 3)A staff weilder can do everything a wand weilder can, adds flexability and reduces cost. It is slightly more expensive for a staff weilder to as much damage as a wand weilder, but they can, and with the higher DC's, are a much better choice.
Pinky's brain
08-18-06, 12:46 PM quickend staffs are a free action.How do you figure that?
zarzak
08-19-06, 12:59 AM So I'd want to switch out Craft Construct for Etch Schema? And how would a "staff-ificer" (I guess) work out? Wands have so much to offer!
FriendlyFrog
08-19-06, 03:23 AM So I'd want to switch out Craft Construct for Etch Schema? And how would a "staff-ificer" (I guess) work out? Wands have so much to offer!
The staffificer cheese comes from using UMD to emulate a caster level high to the roof, which might or might not be legal by the rules. The debate is still out there.

Etch schema is a very good choice for buffificer, who saves a lot of money from not burning dozens of wands for high level buffs, but it's not nearly that good for a blastificer. Though if you think you'd get to use persistent Unfettered heroism, I'd say it'd still be very well worth it.
zarzak
08-21-06, 01:20 AM After thinking for a bit, I've now come up with this build for a human artificer 20 blastificer build:

1) Scribe Scroll
1) Extend Spell
2) Brew Potion
3) Craft Wondrous Item
3) Wand Surge
4) Craft Homunculus
4) Energy Substitution
5) Craft Magic Arms and Armor
6) Two Weapon Fighting
7) Craft Wand
8) Persisstent Spell
9) Craft Rod
9) Wand Mastery
12) Craft Staff
12) Twin Spell
12) Etch Schema
14) Forge Ring
15) Double Wand Wielder
16) Extra Rings
18) Energy Admixture
20) Craft Construct

This of course includes the artificer feats.

At 20th level I was at a loss of what artificer bonus feat to take, and Craft Construct seemed reasonable enough.

The stat priority would go:
1) Int (high as possible)
2) Dex (>13)
3) Cha (>11)
4) Con (>9)
5) Str (DUMP)
6) Wis (DUMP)

... pretty standard.

This build allows for the persistent unfettered heroism cheese at the earliest possible level, if I want it.

That said, is there any way to further optimized the feat selections? I'm not looking for a staffificer (UMD rules seem a bit shady to me), and I would like to dual wield wands (just too cool to pass up). Point Blank Shot or Precise Shot maybe? And if so, how would I rework the feat selections?

Of course, there is the option of being a warforged artificer. Then I get the wand sheathe, and all I lose feat-wise is Craft Construct (or point blank shot ...)

Thanks for all who have helped so far!
Elderich
08-25-06, 11:08 AM Pinky;
As you know the Dmg says Quickend wands are a free action. Any reson to suggest Staffs are different?

FriendlyFrog;
Please let us not enter into another Stafficer^TM discussion.
I do not think zarzak is asking about the Stafficer^TM, I think the question is about a staff weilder- blaster focused artificer.

zarzak;
Why the wand surge?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zarzak 08-16-06, 11:34 PM	So I've been looking around the boards at the various optimization threads, and I can't quite figure out how to optimize a blastificer. I'd definitely like him to dual wield wands, and I'd like to stay away from 'exotic' races (ie. warforged scout, etc.). Thus, race-wise I was thinking either human (extra feat and bonus skill points, plus can take Mark of Making for the Cannith Wand Adept) or warforged (wand sheathe(!!), and the first two artificer substitution levels ... can also do favored in house to get into Cannith Wand Adept, but not sure if thats worth it). Feat-wise, I want to take some metamagic feats to get the most out of my wands, and also get some more crafting stuff in. Heres where I run into real trouble ... I'm not sure what to do! Either way, for my artificer bonus feats I'd want Craft Construct, Extra Rings, and Wand Mastery. If I take it up to artificer 20th I'd also probably want Extraordinary Artisan. For my other feats, I'm definitely thinkng Two Weapon Fighting -> Dual Wand Wielding. For metamagic definitely Quicken Spell, Twin Spell, and Energy admixture. Here's where I'm not sure what to do. I'm looking at Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Least Dragonmark - Mark of Making (if human), Etch Schema, Craft Contingent Item, and Eldeen plant grafter/elemental grafter/death grafter. I'm not sure about the worth of Imp. Homunculus and Rapid Infusion, and Item Familiar seems a bit iffy to use in a campaign. Reach Spell and Energy Substitution are also tempting. Simply too many good feat options! And, is Cannith Wand Adept worth it for a blastificer? The dual-wielding feat tree is much better than the cannith wand adept's dual wielding ability, and the imp. dragonmark isn't that useful. But wand quick draw and siphon charge are pretty great, and the Wand Focus is pretty awesome. But is it worth two feats (least dragonmark/favored in house, and giving up an artificer bonus feat), plus the craft reserve and casting levels? That said, what do people recommend for a blastificer build race-wise, feat-wise, and is cannith wand adept worth it? Thanks a ton!
Caelic 08-16-06, 11:53 PM	I'd just go with a straight human. The extra feat and skill points are very useful to an Artificer, and hey--there's a certain amount of class to keeping a low profile until you need to blow a continent-sized hole in something. If you're using action points, definitely consider Wand Surge. Coupled with a Persistent Unfettered Heroism, it can save you a LOT of money in terms of charges expended. While we're on the subject, see if you can fit in Extend and Persistent Spell...even for a dedicated Blastificer, they're well worth the effort to take.
zarzak 08-17-06, 01:01 AM	so if I do human (and forget about cannith wand adept), that gives me 8 feats and 4 bonus feats, for 12 feats total. bonus feats would be: 1) construct construct 2) wand mastery 3) extra rings 4) extraordinary artisan My 8 feats then become 1) two weapon fighting 2) double wand wielding 3) quicken spell 4) twin spell 5) energy admixture 6) point blank shot? wand surge? 7) persistent spell? precise shot? 8) extend spell? etch schema? craft contingent item? grafter feat? ??? Help!
Caelic 08-17-06, 01:14 AM	Skip point blank shot and precise shot...not because they're not good feats, but because you can provide them for yourself by using the Heroics spell from the Spell Compendium.
PhoenixInferno 08-17-06, 02:03 AM	So I've been looking around the boards at the various optimization threads, and I can't quite figure out how to optimize a blastificer.Its hard to miss entries in the Index under "Artificer". http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287275 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=520855 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=373293 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=387497
zarzak 08-17-06, 02:17 AM	I've read those posts (well, at least the first few pages of each), and while they helped me narrow down race and feat choices (and discard pretty much all prcs), and helped me figure out how to play an artificer, I still need a bit more help to optimize a blastificer. Now its looking like a human artificer 20 I miscounted the bonus feats (silly me) bonus feats would be: 4) extraordinary artisan 8) craft construct 12) extra rings 16) wand mastery 20) energy admixture My 8 feats then become 1) two weapon fighting 1) extend spell 3) quicken spell 6) twin spell 9) double wand wielder 12) etch schemal 15) bind elemental 18) persistent spell I'm thinking, as cool as grafts are, they're not that useful to an artificer, and they dont' really fit the 'theme' I have in mind (item creation and blasting things). And, as good as wand surge is, its limited as this build doesn't have a good way to get more action points, but it is very easy to make more wands. So how does this feat lineup look? Is there any way to improve it? Make a better blastificer w/it?
aelryinth 08-17-06, 05:15 AM	You want wand mastery a LOT sooner. And you can't take extra rings until you get Craft Ring at 15?.. Try to take Wand Mastery at 8th so you get many levels of play out of the +2 bonus. Those are the levels at which wand masters tend to shine the most. Persistent Spell you also want early. It's the ability to abuse Persistent Spell and let your wands uber buff you (or your friends) which also give the artificer a lot of his power. Etch Schema and Bind Elemental are completely optional and really unneccessary unless you are building a crafter...and if you are building a tool maker, you don't want most of these combat feats. As someone else noted, may as well take two levels of Chameleon and use the floating feat to grab these feats when you need them. ===Aelryinth
zarzak 08-17-06, 09:55 AM	For some reason I thought forge ring was at 12th ... thats what I get for trying to remember this stuff. :p Its actually at 14th. I'd rather stay artificer 20 then go into chameleon, so I think I can live without the item creation feats (I do want to stay blastificer). That gives me: bonus: 4) ??? Extraordinary Artisan ??? 8) Wand Surge 12) Twin Spell 20) ??? Craft Construct ??? 1) Two Weapon Fighting 1) Extend Spell 3) Energy Substitution 6) Persistent Spell 9) Wand Mastery 12) Double Wand Wielder 15) Extra Rings 18) Energy Admixture Forgot about the energy substitutino pre-req to eneryg admixture. whoops. That said, how does this feat progression look? Is there anything better for a blstificer then Extraodinary Aristan and Craft Construct (constructs are always nice to have). Extend spell maybe? And what is a good level to take persistent spell?
prototype00 08-17-06, 10:54 AM	You know, instead of dual wand weilding (which can get expensive), I personally preferred the dragon prophesier-prophecy artifex combo found in Magic of Eberron. You get to blast twice (both twinned, of course) just like the dual wand weilder, and it only costs you one more charge as opposed to the what was it? 1d4 charges?, that you have to use as a dual wand weilder. Furthermore it saved you from taking two weapon fighting, quite useless for a blastificier really. Of course if this is about the stylin, then certain unoptimized options can probably be used. prototype00 Ah, managed to dig up the old build, here it is: Lysander Vown d'Cannith Human Artificer 17/ Cannith Wand Adept 3 "If weapons are instuments, then I'd much rather be a Conductor." Artificer1: Pointblank Shot/ Precise Shot/ Scribe Scroll Artificer2: Brew potion Artificer3: Favored in House (Cannith) / Craft Wondrous item Artificer4: Craft Homunculous/ Extraordinary Artisan Artificer5: Craft Magic Arms and Armor Artificer6: Craft Wand/ Empower Spell Artificer8: Twin Spell (Complete arcane) Artificer9: Craft Rod/ Wand Mastery Artificer9/CWA3: Least Dragonmark (Making)/ Dragon Prophesier Artificer12/CWA3: Craft Staff/ Legendary Artisan/ Prophecy Artifex Artificer14/CWA3: Forge Ring Artificer15/CWA3: Wand Surge Artificer16/CWA3: Extra Rings You'd craft all your own stuff and blast twice/round with twinned wands of acid/sonic orbs or flaming spheres. After you get to Level 18 and got wand surge, you could basically have unfettered heroism on you all the time for free charges to the wand. No persistant cheese though, but I feel this build has enough of its own merit not to need that. I also had a list of equipment that I had this character craft at level 13, if you're interested. prototype00
zarzak 08-18-06, 02:14 AM	You know, instead of dual wand weilding (which can get expensive), I personally preferred the dragon prophesier-prophecy artifex combo found in Magic of Eberron. You get to blast twice (both twinned, of course) just like the dual wand weilder, and it only costs you one more charge as opposed to the what was it? 1d4 charges?, that you have to use as a dual wand weilder. Furthermore it saved you from taking two weapon fighting, quite useless for a blastificier really. Of course if this is about the stylin, then certain unoptimized options can probably be used. prototype00 Ah, managed to dig up the old build, here it is: Lysander Vown d'Cannith Human Artificer 17/ Cannith Wand Adept 3 "If weapons are instuments, then I'd much rather be a Conductor." Artificer1: Pointblank Shot/ Precise Shot/ Scribe Scroll Artificer2: Brew potion Artificer3: Favored in House (Cannith) / Craft Wondrous item Artificer4: Craft Homunculous/ Extraordinary Artisan Artificer5: Craft Magic Arms and Armor Artificer6: Craft Wand/ Empower Spell Artificer8: Twin Spell (Complete arcane) Artificer9: Craft Rod/ Wand Mastery Artificer9/CWA3: Least Dragonmark (Making)/ Dragon Prophesier Artificer12/CWA3: Craft Staff/ Legendary Artisan/ Prophecy Artifex Artificer14/CWA3: Forge Ring Artificer15/CWA3: Wand Surge Artificer16/CWA3: Extra Rings You'd craft all your own stuff and blast twice/round with twinned wands of acid/sonic orbs or flaming spheres. After you get to Level 18 and got wand surge, you could basically have unfettered heroism on you all the time for free charges to the wand. No persistant cheese though, but I feel this build has enough of its own merit not to need that. I also had a list of equipment that I had this character craft at level 13, if you're interested. prototype00 The Dual Wand Wielding feat only sucks up 1 additional charge on the off-hand wand - its much better than the Cannith Wand Adept equivalent. So, it ends up being pretty similar feat-wise, its just more about style there I think. :cool: Then, of course there is the persistent spell unfettered heroism cheese. :D
prototype00 08-18-06, 03:08 AM	So thats basically three charges for two spells/ round. Whereas my character can do about the same for two charges. Well, I suppose if you really really really like dual wand wielding and wasting a feat on two weapon fighting... I'm not sure how you're going to get persistant unfettered heroism, its too high level to fit in a wand, isn't it? I could probably imagine a custom magic item that casts it however many times/day, but you wouldn't need to persist that would you? So I'm slightly curious, what spells, besides unfettered heroism (which might not even be possible, or needed) are you going to have persisted on yourself? Strength boosting spells? You're not the meleeficier. Stuff like fly and freedom of movement? You can just make items that do that, much cheaper than draining wands. Combat spells with durations? Battles only last for so long when you can do 76d6 worth of damage/ round without resorting to cheesy rules. So it just doesn't make sense to me. Instead of persistant spell which would have minimal impact on my blastificing, I would personally take twin spell, which has a massive impact on my ability to kill stuff in one round with magic. With prophecy artifex, you can blast off two twinned empowered scorching rays in one round. 72 d 6 damage. Kills most things without fire resistance and spell resistance. prototype00
FriendlyFrog 08-18-06, 03:19 AM	I'm not sure how you're going to get persistant unfettered heroism, its too high level to fit in a wand, isn't it? I could probably imagine a custom magic item that casts it however many times/day, but you wouldn't need to persist that would you? A minor schema (Magic of Eberron) of Unfettered heroism is the key for this. They're basically like scrolls, but can be used 1/day.
prototype00 08-18-06, 03:23 AM	Alright, I can see that. But Zarzark is taking persistant spell (which required extend spell of course) just for that? Its not really required, in my opinion. prototype00
Caelic 08-18-06, 07:52 AM	So I'm slightly curious, what spells, besides unfettered heroism (which might not even be possible, or needed) are you going to have persisted on yourself? Strength boosting spells? You're not the meleeficier. Stuff like fly and freedom of movement? You can just make items that do that, much cheaper than draining wands. Combat spells with durations? Battles only last for so long when you can do 76d6 worth of damage/ round without resorting to cheesy rules. Oh ye of little faith! There's Persistent Instant Search, for starters. How valuable is it to the party to have the trap-finder constantly searching for traps without slowing the party down in any appreciable way? Instant Locksmith is nice, though not quite as useful. More to the point, an Artificer doesn't just persist spells for himself. With a bit of foresight and planning, he can persist them for every member of the group. Persistent Bite of the Wereboar may not be titanically useful to the party Blastificer (though a boost in natural armor, strength, and constitution should always be welcome to every character,) but it's extremely useful to the party Druid, who can use that wand once you've metamagicked it. That said, I agree with you that Twin Spell is the wrong thing to give up. In fact, it's the last thing I'd give up--it adds as much utility to the Artificer as Persistent.
Elderich 08-18-06, 12:39 PM	A duel wand weilder is a weak build. A staff weilder will win every time. A build that does not mature untill staffs are the mainstay of the game makes no sense. As well one could weild two staffs AND/OR quicken and blow as many spells as one has attacks anyway, as quickend staffs are a free action. A wand build 1)costs feats 2)Limits you to 4L or less spells 3)A staff weilder can do everything a wand weilder can, adds flexability and reduces cost. It is slightly more expensive for a staff weilder to as much damage as a wand weilder, but they can, and with the higher DC's, are a much better choice.
Pinky's brain 08-18-06, 12:46 PM	quickend staffs are a free action.How do you figure that?
zarzak 08-19-06, 12:59 AM	So I'd want to switch out Craft Construct for Etch Schema? And how would a "staff-ificer" (I guess) work out? Wands have so much to offer!
FriendlyFrog 08-19-06, 03:23 AM	So I'd want to switch out Craft Construct for Etch Schema? And how would a "staff-ificer" (I guess) work out? Wands have so much to offer! The staffificer cheese comes from using UMD to emulate a caster level high to the roof, which might or might not be legal by the rules. The debate is still out there. Etch schema is a very good choice for buffificer, who saves a lot of money from not burning dozens of wands for high level buffs, but it's not nearly that good for a blastificer. Though if you think you'd get to use persistent Unfettered heroism, I'd say it'd still be very well worth it.
zarzak 08-21-06, 01:20 AM	After thinking for a bit, I've now come up with this build for a human artificer 20 blastificer build: 1) Scribe Scroll 1) Extend Spell 2) Brew Potion 3) Craft Wondrous Item 3) Wand Surge 4) Craft Homunculus 4) Energy Substitution 5) Craft Magic Arms and Armor 6) Two Weapon Fighting 7) Craft Wand 8) Persisstent Spell 9) Craft Rod 9) Wand Mastery 12) Craft Staff 12) Twin Spell 12) Etch Schema 14) Forge Ring 15) Double Wand Wielder 16) Extra Rings 18) Energy Admixture 20) Craft Construct This of course includes the artificer feats. At 20th level I was at a loss of what artificer bonus feat to take, and Craft Construct seemed reasonable enough. The stat priority would go: 1) Int (high as possible) 2) Dex (>13) 3) Cha (>11) 4) Con (>9) 5) Str (DUMP) 6) Wis (DUMP) ... pretty standard. This build allows for the persistent unfettered heroism cheese at the earliest possible level, if I want it. That said, is there any way to further optimized the feat selections? I'm not looking for a staffificer (UMD rules seem a bit shady to me), and I would like to dual wield wands (just too cool to pass up). Point Blank Shot or Precise Shot maybe? And if so, how would I rework the feat selections? Of course, there is the option of being a warforged artificer. Then I get the wand sheathe, and all I lose feat-wise is Craft Construct (or point blank shot ...) Thanks for all who have helped so far!
Elderich 08-25-06, 11:08 AM	Pinky; As you know the Dmg says Quickend wands are a free action. Any reson to suggest Staffs are different? FriendlyFrog; Please let us not enter into another Stafficer^TM discussion. I do not think zarzak is asking about the Stafficer^TM, I think the question is about a staff weilder- blaster focused artificer. zarzak; Why the wand surge?