Post/Author/DateTime	Post
4Chayva 11-05-05, 11:32 AM	I'm interested in optimizing a Zatoichi build. Your help is appreciated. Guidelines Blind - He must suffer from a total loss of visual sight. Katana - He most be proficient with a katana. I was thinking Samurai 1/Fighter 4/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Dervish 10/Kensai 4 How best to achieve blindness and still be effective? Any suggestions? -4C
vogster 11-05-05, 11:43 AM	Find a way to get the creature ability "blindsight".
4Chayva 11-05-05, 12:11 PM	There's the blindsight weapon enhancement. Any class abilities that might help? -4C
Sci 11-05-05, 12:15 PM	I could swear I remember somewhere there's a Blindsight feat SOMEWHERE, but you need a crapload of Wis and the BlindFight feat for it, and it's only like 10 feet... Plus there's some feats where you sense vibrations or something if you have enough ranks in listen. Damn, I wish I remembered where it was...
4Chayva 11-05-05, 12:18 PM	Sword & Fist has Blindsight, 5 ft.-radius but that's 3.0. I'm not aware of it's existence as a player selectable feat in 3.5. -4C
Khan the Destroyer 11-05-05, 12:20 PM	If you can sack two levels, you can do 1 level in wizard and nab Practiced Caster to qualify for Mindbender (at level 5 still of course). Once you get telepathy out to 100', grab the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness. That will give you Blindsense out to 100'. I'm not sure if you can do it without losing those levels to wizard and mindbender.
4Chayva 11-05-05, 12:24 PM	Blindsense is pretty weak though unless I'm reading it wrong. Don't targets 5 ft. in front of you still have total concealment? As far as sacking levels, I think kensai is expendable. -4C
Gloverboy 11-05-05, 12:26 PM	The best way to achieve blindness is to poke out your eyes with a +3 brooch, Oedipus style, ;). Fighting effectively while blind, however, is more complex than that. If you want to go with 3rd party splat, the Quint drow has a PrC that should be effective. I believe theres an item in Arms and Equipment, a blindfold that gives you blindsight. Or, you could go with Cancer Mage, and your tumor eventually gets blindsight out to 60 feet.
Xeraph 11-05-05, 01:26 PM	If you can sack two levels, you can do 1 level in wizard and nab Practiced Caster to qualify for Mindbender (at level 5 still of course). Once you get telepathy out to 100', grab the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness. That will give you Blindsense out to 100'. I'm not sure if you can do it without losing those levels to wizard and mindbender. Warlock might be better, leaps and bounds, spider climb... you know such manga things, get mindbender then mindsight = t3h w]n.
pinky_si 11-05-05, 02:51 PM	I'm a big fan of Ichi-san myself, so here's how I'd handle it if you wanted to play a Zatoichi-inspired character in one of my games. I'd consider letting you take a modified version of the Blindsight special quality at first level, which would look something like this ... :thinks: ***** Zanshin Blindness A character may only select this feat at first level. A character with this feat is permanently blind, either as a result of a birth defect, or through some pre-1st level accident. If the blindess is cured, the character loses all abilities granted by this feat, or which require this feat as a prerequisite. At the DM's discretion, this blindness is resistant to magical cure. A character with Zanshin Blindness has learnt to compensate for their lack of sight by devoting themselves single-mindedly to improving the sensitivity of their other senses, usually through some form of martial discipline. Listen becomes a class skill for a character with the Zanshin Blindness feat. The character also gains the equivalent of the Blindsight special quality (as described in the Monster Manual) to a range of 5'. Beyond this range the character must make a Listen check (as a free action) to gain Blindsight benefits. The DC is 10 to perceive up to 10' away from the character and increases by 5 for every 5' increment (e.g. DC 25 to perceive up to 25' away). The DC of the listen check is further modified by environmental factors, at the DM's discretion. A character who fails the Listen check suffers all the normal penalties associated with the Blinded condition when interacting with targets further away than their check result indicates they can perceive,. ***** If I were building the character I'd probably go for a mix of Samurai and Iaijitsu-Master levels. If I were looking to round the character off to fit in with the films, I'd consider a couple of levels of Bard or Expert as Ichi-san is also a competent massuer and musician. However as a straight combat build, I'd ignore the hell out of them :D I normally hang out on the Eberron boards, and this is my first post to the CharOp side of things. This is my first publicly posted feat, so feedback from the masters would be appreciated.
bluelighter0 11-05-05, 03:27 PM	pinky_si - I like the feat, but then again, I like power. Heh. "Yes please, Mr. DM sir, I'd like to be able to have blindsight based on my listen skill. Oh, by the way, I'm playing a nano-bot build, so I've got a +1200 to my check. Hey, I can see that ambush half a mile away!". I'm not trying to be mean or insulting, just trying to illustrate a point. The masters of this board have made this game their b**ch, and will prove it with every new splat book WoTC releases, delighting the masses and giving DM's high blood pressure with such creations as Nano-Bots, the HIVE, and my personal Lord and Master, Pun-Pun (who was broken by Serpent Kingdoms, not Psionics, just to remind you naysayers). While I really like the feat, I could just imagine the kind of crazyness that would insue. 4Chayva - A simmilar concept came up not too long ago, and my suggestion then is my suggestion to you: if Psionics is allowed, go for Synethesate. Basically, it allows you to negate either deafness or blindness when you manifest it by letting you "hear" light or "see" sound. Even if you don't work a psionic class into your build, you could still see if your DM would swing a use-activated or constant effect item of it. Maybe a strand of prayer beads you hold while meditating before combat. Or something. YMMV.
CanineLord 11-05-05, 03:52 PM	Horizon Walker gets Tremorsense at 6th...
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-05-05, 04:00 PM	Complete Adventurer: Hear the unseen. Pre-req: Listen 5 ranks, Blind-Fight DC 25 Listen check, spend a move action: pinpoint location of all foes within 30' Mix with psionic power Hustle, to get an extra move. Now you have an effective blind sight. (Requires high listen ranks though...) Doesn't work against: incorporeal creatures or creatures in a silence area. Also, savage species has a permanent blind sight spell I believe... but that book is pretty broken...
batstek 11-05-05, 04:10 PM	Mindsight + Blindfight. Blindness isn't supposed to make you more powerful, but you'll be better off in the dark than everyone else. Eventually, take the magic item blindfold of sight (or whatever it is that gives Blindsight).
Reiner 11-05-05, 04:15 PM	Well, combine the hear the unseen feat with Quick reconnoiter feat from Complete adventurer, which allowed you to make a listen check as a free action once per round, and you're got a pretty good idea of where the enemies are. Then follow that with blind-fight, and Blind-sight 5' from sword and fist if you can swing it. Then you can sense your enemies, move to them, and fight without penalty. Still introuble against ranged or enemies with reach though.
P33KAJ3W 11-05-05, 04:26 PM	Depending on what movie you watch he is not really blind at all... I sugjest you play it that way... If not get a RACE approved from UAA (SW d20 WotC) product (its on the site too) - Miraluka -2 Dex, +2 Int Special Qualities: Quick Reaction - - Despite their general lack of coordination, a Miraluka's reaction speed is superior to that of most other species. Miraluka gain a +2 species bonus on initiative checks. Force Sight - - Miraluka are blind to all wavelengths of light. However, their ability to see through the Force allows them to sense their surroundings as though they could see normally, allowing them to attack and make skill checks without suffering penalties for blindness. Using Force sight is a free action and costs a Miraluka no vitality points. ///Without this I would convince my DM it is a flaw and do my best to get tremorsence
Effling 11-05-05, 04:52 PM	Warlock 5/Mindbender 1 is pretty solid, following with Samurai and Dervish or whatever. Like it has been mentioned, the item in A&EG gives 60 ft. blindsight for a ridiculously low price, so if you can swing that by your DM, you're good. Or just get a Helm of Telepathy and the Mindsight feat. :)
Skulan 11-05-05, 07:27 PM	Blindsight, 5-ft. Radius is reprinted in the 3.5 SRD, under feats that deities can take. It's listed as a general feat with no divine prerequisites, so you might be able to get a DM to allow it. I know some people have been iffy about using those feats for non-deities, though, so it may not pan out. -Skulan
Verdaloth 11-05-05, 08:44 PM	Wizards had the articales "magic of X" "magic items of X" and "monsters of X" if you go into archives look for the underdark section and...Ill just pull it up Faceless Mask: A faceless mask looks like a shallow oval stone bowl with the inverted impression of a face on the inner surface. When held against the face of any creature, the mask adheres to the creature's face and bonds with it, erasing the creature's facial features (eyes, nose, ears, and mouth) completely. Removing a faceless mask is a full-round action that causes great pain (and 2d6 points of subdual damage). Although the faceless mask robs the wearer of the ability to hear, see, smell, and taste, and prevents the use of any bite attacks, the benefits granted by the mask outweigh these disadvantages. The wearer is immune to all attacks that require sight, hearing, or a sense of smell (such as gaze attacks, most language-dependent spells, sonic attacks, a harpy's captivating song, darkness, and a ghast's nauseating stench). In addition, the wearer of the mask gains the blindsight ability to a range of 50 feet. Blindsight allows the target to maneuver and fight as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility and darkness are irrelevant to the creature, though blindsight does not allow the creature to notice ethereal beings. The creature does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight ability. Finally, as long as the mask is worn, the wearer is sustained without food, water, and air. A faceless mask uses the eye lens/goggle magic item slot when worn. Caster Level: 5th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, alter self, blindsight, create food and water, water breathing; Market Price: 74,000 gp; Weight: 1 lb Ive used this before...it was freakin awsome, get some telepathy and youre good,
FilthySanchez 11-05-05, 08:47 PM	Play as a grimlock from Underdark?
Verdaloth 11-05-05, 08:52 PM	Play as a grimlock from Underdark? 3.0 stuff...not sure if he can do that, but instead of using UD eddition, use the 3.5 MM grimlock as character things
unusualsuspect 11-05-05, 08:52 PM	The item in the A&EG is called the Blindfold of True Darkness, and costs only 9000 gp. Damn, that IS cheap.
4Chayva 11-05-05, 08:55 PM	Zatoichi is human so Grimlock is out. -4C
ashcat_lt 11-05-05, 09:30 PM	if Psionics is allowed, go for Synethesate. Basically, it allows you to negate either deafness or blindness when you manifest it by letting you "hear" light or "see" sound. Actually, i believe you "feel" light or sound (you choose as a free action) on the skin of your face. Either way I second this motion. Drop a level or two of fighter and go for Psychic Warrior instead. You still get bonus feats as though you were a fighter (and a few more). You lose 1hp/level and 1 BAB. You'll also want to have a Wis score worth talking about for bonus pp. It lasts a good amount of time, and you'll only be using it in emergencies, and probably only until you use your kensai levels to add blindsight to your katana.
pinky_si 11-06-05, 08:38 AM	pinky_si - I like the feat, but then again, I like power. Heh. "Yes please, Mr. DM sir, I'd like to be able to have blindsight based on my listen skill. Oh, by the way, I'm playing a nano-bot build, so I've got a +1200 to my check. Hey, I can see that ambush half a mile away!". I'm not trying to be mean or insulting, just trying to illustrate a point. The masters of this board have made this game their b**ch, and will prove it with every new splat book WoTC releases, delighting the masses and giving DM's high blood pressure with such creations as Nano-Bots, the HIVE, and my personal Lord and Master, Pun-Pun (who was broken by Serpent Kingdoms, not Psionics, just to remind you naysayers). While I really like the feat, I could just imagine the kind of crazyness that would insue. No offence taken :) I read through the Pun-Pun thread with a big grin myself. However, if a DM's going to be allowing nano-bot builds (or any of the other uber-ick builds), then it doesn't matter what feats etc the character has, they're going to be able to do pretty much anything they want to anyway. No point in having say, walls or pits, if you're allowing nano then the character with +1200 or more to his jump skill doesn't need to worry about them. But, to counteract the potential for abuse by broken builds, try the following changes in bold The character also gains the equivalent of the Blindsight special quality (as described in the Monster Manual) to a range of 5'. Beyond this range the character must make a Listen check (as a free action) to gain Blindsight benefits. The DC is 10 to perceive up to 10' away from the character and increases by 5 for every 5' increment (e.g. DC 25 to perceive up to 25' away) to a maximum range of 60' (DC 60). The DC of the listen check is further modified by environmental factors, at the DM's discretion. A character who fails the Listen check suffers all the normal penalties associated with the Blinded condition when interacting with targets further away than their check result indicates they can perceive. @ 4chayva - the Quick draw feat and a lot of ranks in Iajitsu focus would probably be the main schtick that your Zatoichi character would need, although I'd combine that with Combat Reflexes and a highish dex for multiple AOO's. To my mind, while the psionic/warlock type routes are effective ways of getting a blind-but-effective character, they don't really fit with the "flavour" of Zatoichi. You'd have all the other abilities associated with those routes, and would either a) waste them by not using them to preserve the Z flavour, or b) use them and quickly diverge from Z'ness.
ashcat_lt 11-06-05, 09:16 AM	To my mind, while the psionic/warlock type routes are effective ways of getting a blind-but-effective character, they don't really fit with the "flavour" of Zatoichi. You'd have all the other abilities associated with those routes, and would either a) waste them by not using them to preserve the Z flavour, or b) use them and quickly diverge from Z'ness. I have to admit that I'm not specifically familiar with this Z character, and I'm not sure what you mean by Z'ness, but I'm pretty sure you could dip into PW for a couple levels and not violate either a or b above. As I said, you'll get two feats which are as good as fighter bonuses. You only get one power per level, so you won't have to really waste anything. Take synesthete at first level. Combat prescience or precognition, offensive/defensive seem like fairly "zen-flavored" powers to me. There a few other 1st lvl PW powers that don't go too far out - burst, catfall, empty mind, grip of iron, etc...