bodyguard help [Archive] - Wizards Community

bodyguard help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pyro_cat
07-04-05, 08:46 AM hi

my party currently consists of a sneak attacking rogue who is going to take his next level in fighter and then enter the dread commando Prc, a half ogre barbarian (me big, me smash!), a cleric played by our least experienced and least intelligent member (secondary melee and healing) and myself, a evoker who is headed for the red wizard prestige class (no enchantment, or necromancy, and soon no illusion)

at level 6 i want to take leadership, and pick up a fighter, who will progress into thayan knight, and eventually devoted defender. however, it only seems to be useful to level three, after that it is somewhat redundant.

can anyone suggest a high hit-die, defensive class that he could qualify for after his stint in devoted defender?
Kurama Youko
07-04-05, 09:50 AM This build requires the following books: PHB, Complete Warrior, Races of Stone, Sword and Fist, and Draconomicon, Players Guide to Faerun, Skill Points make Devoted Defender very tight with this build, in terms of qualifying for that is.. but you have 10 lvs before trying to qualify for it, assume you dont right to take it first, i really like this build myself. Vengence Knight can be found in Champions of Ruin by the way.

The build is, protect My Mage and kick some arse while doing it.
Barbarian 3/Fighter 2/Thayan Knight 5/Devoted Defender 3/Vengence Knight 5. You can increase the Vengence Knight to 6 if you yourself take Improved Cohort.

Feats in the order best taken. (B) denotes at some point after the last lv feat mentioned or at the same time, you will get a bonus feat from fighter levels or PrC lvs. The First Feat Tireless can be found in the Players Guide to Faerun, very useful when combined with Extra Rage.

Feats: (B)Tireless, 1st-Extra Rage, 3rd-Iron Will, (B)Weapon Focus (Longsword), (B)Improved Iniatitive, 6th-Alertness, (B)Goad, 9th-Frightful Presence, 12th-Reckless Rage, 15th, (B)Improved Shield Bash, (B)Shield Charge, 18th-Shield Slam
pyro_cat
07-04-05, 12:24 PM i like that build alot, but the problem is, my DM is very picky about class choices reflecting roleplaying and realism. he hates it when people take lots of prestige classes, and usually doesnt allow more than one or two to be taken.

i could justify fighter, thayan knight, and devoted defender. i could probably even make barbarian feasible, but with the vengance knight i think i would have some difficulties. which is a shame, considering how good they are in that capacity. the problem is that vengance knights all out support another faction in faerun, and since the dm is a forgotten realms nut, he wont let me pull something like that as a red wizard.
pyro_cat
07-04-05, 04:01 PM any other suggestions? basically im looking for something equivalent to the dwarven defender, but for humans, and better.
PhaedrusXY
07-04-05, 04:04 PM any other suggestions? basically im looking for something equivalent to the dwarven defender, but for humans, and better.Check out the Horde Breaker in the Silver Marches book. It gets an identical ability to Defensive Stance, and a few other abilities. It is also only 5 levels long and the prereqs are actually pretty useful. ;)
Kurama Youko
07-04-05, 04:20 PM sure i could have made some but if your talking about your DM is regulating organizations and so on, reigions and other places that offer things that would help you are kind of cut out. Are people from thay traveling to the Silver Marches and joining PrC there? does this fit into the general overview of the red wizards ways would they want one of their followers training in a PrC that is from such a place?

Thayan gladiator would have been my first suggestion after Thayan knight and devotee levels but you'd need a natural attack for you creature.. though now that i think about it if your guardian took the vile feats that shape your hands into claws.. then i guess thats a natural attack thus you'd qualify for your Fighter2/Barbarian3/Thayan Knight 5/devoted defender3/Thayan Gladiator 5
pyro_cat
07-04-05, 04:34 PM sure i could have made some but if your talking about your DM is regulating organizations and so on, reigions and other places that offer things that would help you are kind of cut out. Are people from thay traveling to the Silver Marches and joining PrC there? does this fit into the general overview of the red wizards ways would they want one of their followers training in a PrC that is from such a place?

Thayan gladiator would have been my first suggestion after Thayan knight and devotee levels but you'd need a natural attack for you creature.. though now that i think about it if your guardian took the vile feats that shape your hands into claws.. then i guess thats a natural attack thus you'd qualify for your Fighter2/Barbarian3/Thayan Knight 5/devoted defender3/Thayan Gladiator 5

sorry i didnt specify

the dm would love the idea of getting a bodyguard specially trained somewhere, its really a great adventure hook.

as for thayan gladiator, i hadnt thought of that, however, in lords of darkness it says that thayan knights have to be non-slaves, and thayan gladiators are, well, slaves. it might be hard to come come up with backstory, since the gladiator levels are being taken AFTER the thayan knight ones. i mean, certianly possible, but a little weak from the plausibility standpoint
Kurama Youko
07-04-05, 04:38 PM then prehapes you should push for 3.5 Material because from where i stand I dont see how whether a human was a slave at some point to a red wizard or not is important to what you ultimately train them for.

The 3.5 version of Thayan Knight and Purple Dragon Knight can be found in the complete warrior.
pyro_cat
07-04-05, 04:42 PM then prehapes you should push for 3.5 Material because from where i stand I dont see how whether a human was a slave at some point to a red wizard or not is important to what you ultimately train them for.

The 3.5 version of Thayan Knight and Purple Dragon Knight can be found in the complete warrior.

thanks, i actually do have complete warrior, i just didnt notice the difference in the pre-req's. now that you point that out, however, thayan gladiator makes more sense. are natural weapons a viable possibility? i must admit, i havent really read much of the crunch involved in the thayan gladiator, and i dont know if its worth it.
PhaedrusXY
07-04-05, 05:38 PM Are people from thay traveling to the Silver Marches and joining PrC there? I don't have my books on me, but I don't think the Horde Breaker is specifically tied to the Silver Marches region. It is just someone who is specialized in slaying certain kinds of monsters that tend to attack in large numbers. There are a few PrCs in that book that aren't really tied to that specific region. Orc Scout and Peerless Archer are a couple that come to mind.
pyro_cat
07-04-05, 05:49 PM i just noticed warrior of darkness in the BoVD, which shares many pre-req's, and i think i'll either use that or hordebreaker, unless there are any other suggestions

thanks for the help
pyro_cat
07-05-05, 04:31 PM hmm... upon futher inspection, warrior of darkness relies heavily on charisma, which really isnt optimal for what i need, and hordebreaker focuses on low CR mosters such as orc, goblins, etc. which also isnt really what we will be facing at that level.

does anyone have any other ideas?

if not, i could always see if my dm would go for a modified hordebreaker or a human styled dwarven defender
catharz
07-05-05, 11:25 PM For a bodyguard, you can't beat three levels of Devoted Defender. Do whatever else you like, but Devoted Defender is the pancea.

Here is a little list I put together at some point:

Feats~
Allied defense [ShS] (Combat expertise.)
Close-quarters fighting [CW].
Combat reflexes-FM.
Deflect arrows-M (IUS.)
Deft opportunist [MHB] (Dex 15, Combat reflexes), Goad [MHB] (Cha 13 & BAB+1.)
Great throw [OA/Errata] (Combat reflexes, Dodge, Improved trip, & IUS-M.)
Improved combat expertise [CW] (Combat expertise.)
Improved combat reflexes [Dng 100] (Combat reflexes.)
Karmic strike [CW] (Dodge & Combat expertise.)
Mage slayer [CA]-F.
Martial throw [MHB] (Dex 17, IUS.)
Pierce magical concealment-F [CA] (Blind fight, Mage slayer.)
Pierce magical protection-F (Mage slayer.)

PrCs~
Devoted defender 1-3 [S&F]: Harm's way, Defensive strike, Deflect attack (BAB+5, Alertness, Weapon focus, Search, Sense motive, & Spot 4.)
Knight protector 1-5 [CW]: Defensive stance (BAB+5, Diplomacy & Ride 6, Armor proficiency (Heavy), Cleave, Great cleave, Mounted combat, Power attack.)
Tactical soldier 1-2 [MHB]: Flanker, Sidestep (BAB+5, Cleave, Combat reflexes.)

Items~
Friend shield ring (50,000 gp.)
Retributive amulet [BoED] (56,000 gp.)
Wrathful healing [E&A] (+3.)

:D
pyro_cat
07-06-05, 12:23 PM thanks!

some of them look a little heavy on the skills pre-req's, but i may pump his intelligence and pick up combat expertise

this is what i had planned

human fighter

18, 12, 16, 8, 8 ,8 (point buy)

1 fighter (2 flaws): WF Longsword, Brutal Throw, Able Learner, Power Attack, Cleave
2 fighter: Quick Draw
3 fighter: Iron Will
4 fighter: Improved Initiative
5 fighter (i dont want to replace this with barbarian, any other suggestions that fit?)
6 thayan knight: Alertness
7 thayan knight
8 thayan knight: Point Blank Shot
9 thayan knight: Precise Shot
10 thayan knight
11 devoted defender
12 devoted defender: great cleave
13 devoted defender
14 hordebreaker
15 hordebreaker: ???
16 hordebreaker
17 hordebreaker
18 hordebreaker: ???

i want the ranged feats for situations where the melee is not immediately close by, but he needs to be by my character's side regardless
pyro_cat
07-06-05, 07:24 PM For a bodyguard, you can't beat three levels of Devoted Defender. Do whatever else you like, but Devoted Defender is the pancea.

Here is a little list I put together at some point:

Feats~
Allied defense [ShS] (Combat expertise.)
Close-quarters fighting [CW].
Combat reflexes-FM.
Deflect arrows-M (IUS.)
Deft opportunist [MHB] (Dex 15, Combat reflexes), Goad [MHB] (Cha 13 & BAB+1.)
Great throw [OA/Errata] (Combat reflexes, Dodge, Improved trip, & IUS-M.)
Improved combat expertise [CW] (Combat expertise.)
Improved combat reflexes [Dng 100] (Combat reflexes.)
Karmic strike [CW] (Dodge & Combat expertise.)
Mage slayer [CA]-F.
Martial throw [MHB] (Dex 17, IUS.)
Pierce magical concealment-F [CA] (Blind fight, Mage slayer.)
Pierce magical protection-F (Mage slayer.)

PrCs~
Devoted defender 1-3 [S&F]: Harm's way, Defensive strike, Deflect attack (BAB+5, Alertness, Weapon focus, Search, Sense motive, & Spot 4.)
Knight protector 1-5 [CW]: Defensive stance (BAB+5, Diplomacy & Ride 6, Armor proficiency (Heavy), Cleave, Great cleave, Mounted combat, Power attack.)
Tactical soldier 1-2 [MHB]: Flanker, Sidestep (BAB+5, Cleave, Combat reflexes.)

Items~
Friend shield ring (50,000 gp.)
Retributive amulet [BoED] (56,000 gp.)
Wrathful healing [E&A] (+3.)

:D

which book is "IUS"?
PhaedrusXY
07-06-05, 07:39 PM which book is "IUS"?That's short for Improved Unarmed Strike (in the Player's).
pyro_cat
07-06-05, 07:42 PM haha...
duh

thanks

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pyro_cat 07-04-05, 08:46 AM	hi my party currently consists of a sneak attacking rogue who is going to take his next level in fighter and then enter the dread commando Prc, a half ogre barbarian (me big, me smash!), a cleric played by our least experienced and least intelligent member (secondary melee and healing) and myself, a evoker who is headed for the red wizard prestige class (no enchantment, or necromancy, and soon no illusion) at level 6 i want to take leadership, and pick up a fighter, who will progress into thayan knight, and eventually devoted defender. however, it only seems to be useful to level three, after that it is somewhat redundant. can anyone suggest a high hit-die, defensive class that he could qualify for after his stint in devoted defender?
Kurama Youko 07-04-05, 09:50 AM	This build requires the following books: PHB, Complete Warrior, Races of Stone, Sword and Fist, and Draconomicon, Players Guide to Faerun, Skill Points make Devoted Defender very tight with this build, in terms of qualifying for that is.. but you have 10 lvs before trying to qualify for it, assume you dont right to take it first, i really like this build myself. Vengence Knight can be found in Champions of Ruin by the way. The build is, protect My Mage and kick some arse while doing it. Barbarian 3/Fighter 2/Thayan Knight 5/Devoted Defender 3/Vengence Knight 5. You can increase the Vengence Knight to 6 if you yourself take Improved Cohort. Feats in the order best taken. (B) denotes at some point after the last lv feat mentioned or at the same time, you will get a bonus feat from fighter levels or PrC lvs. The First Feat Tireless can be found in the Players Guide to Faerun, very useful when combined with Extra Rage. Feats: (B)Tireless, 1st-Extra Rage, 3rd-Iron Will, (B)Weapon Focus (Longsword), (B)Improved Iniatitive, 6th-Alertness, (B)Goad, 9th-Frightful Presence, 12th-Reckless Rage, 15th, (B)Improved Shield Bash, (B)Shield Charge, 18th-Shield Slam
pyro_cat 07-04-05, 12:24 PM	i like that build alot, but the problem is, my DM is very picky about class choices reflecting roleplaying and realism. he hates it when people take lots of prestige classes, and usually doesnt allow more than one or two to be taken. i could justify fighter, thayan knight, and devoted defender. i could probably even make barbarian feasible, but with the vengance knight i think i would have some difficulties. which is a shame, considering how good they are in that capacity. the problem is that vengance knights all out support another faction in faerun, and since the dm is a forgotten realms nut, he wont let me pull something like that as a red wizard.
pyro_cat 07-04-05, 04:01 PM	any other suggestions? basically im looking for something equivalent to the dwarven defender, but for humans, and better.
PhaedrusXY 07-04-05, 04:04 PM	any other suggestions? basically im looking for something equivalent to the dwarven defender, but for humans, and better.Check out the Horde Breaker in the Silver Marches book. It gets an identical ability to Defensive Stance, and a few other abilities. It is also only 5 levels long and the prereqs are actually pretty useful. ;)
Kurama Youko 07-04-05, 04:20 PM	sure i could have made some but if your talking about your DM is regulating organizations and so on, reigions and other places that offer things that would help you are kind of cut out. Are people from thay traveling to the Silver Marches and joining PrC there? does this fit into the general overview of the red wizards ways would they want one of their followers training in a PrC that is from such a place? Thayan gladiator would have been my first suggestion after Thayan knight and devotee levels but you'd need a natural attack for you creature.. though now that i think about it if your guardian took the vile feats that shape your hands into claws.. then i guess thats a natural attack thus you'd qualify for your Fighter2/Barbarian3/Thayan Knight 5/devoted defender3/Thayan Gladiator 5
pyro_cat 07-04-05, 04:34 PM	sure i could have made some but if your talking about your DM is regulating organizations and so on, reigions and other places that offer things that would help you are kind of cut out. Are people from thay traveling to the Silver Marches and joining PrC there? does this fit into the general overview of the red wizards ways would they want one of their followers training in a PrC that is from such a place? Thayan gladiator would have been my first suggestion after Thayan knight and devotee levels but you'd need a natural attack for you creature.. though now that i think about it if your guardian took the vile feats that shape your hands into claws.. then i guess thats a natural attack thus you'd qualify for your Fighter2/Barbarian3/Thayan Knight 5/devoted defender3/Thayan Gladiator 5 sorry i didnt specify the dm would love the idea of getting a bodyguard specially trained somewhere, its really a great adventure hook. as for thayan gladiator, i hadnt thought of that, however, in lords of darkness it says that thayan knights have to be non-slaves, and thayan gladiators are, well, slaves. it might be hard to come come up with backstory, since the gladiator levels are being taken AFTER the thayan knight ones. i mean, certianly possible, but a little weak from the plausibility standpoint
Kurama Youko 07-04-05, 04:38 PM	then prehapes you should push for 3.5 Material because from where i stand I dont see how whether a human was a slave at some point to a red wizard or not is important to what you ultimately train them for. The 3.5 version of Thayan Knight and Purple Dragon Knight can be found in the complete warrior.
pyro_cat 07-04-05, 04:42 PM	then prehapes you should push for 3.5 Material because from where i stand I dont see how whether a human was a slave at some point to a red wizard or not is important to what you ultimately train them for. The 3.5 version of Thayan Knight and Purple Dragon Knight can be found in the complete warrior. thanks, i actually do have complete warrior, i just didnt notice the difference in the pre-req's. now that you point that out, however, thayan gladiator makes more sense. are natural weapons a viable possibility? i must admit, i havent really read much of the crunch involved in the thayan gladiator, and i dont know if its worth it.
PhaedrusXY 07-04-05, 05:38 PM	Are people from thay traveling to the Silver Marches and joining PrC there? I don't have my books on me, but I don't think the Horde Breaker is specifically tied to the Silver Marches region. It is just someone who is specialized in slaying certain kinds of monsters that tend to attack in large numbers. There are a few PrCs in that book that aren't really tied to that specific region. Orc Scout and Peerless Archer are a couple that come to mind.
pyro_cat 07-04-05, 05:49 PM	i just noticed warrior of darkness in the BoVD, which shares many pre-req's, and i think i'll either use that or hordebreaker, unless there are any other suggestions thanks for the help
pyro_cat 07-05-05, 04:31 PM	hmm... upon futher inspection, warrior of darkness relies heavily on charisma, which really isnt optimal for what i need, and hordebreaker focuses on low CR mosters such as orc, goblins, etc. which also isnt really what we will be facing at that level. does anyone have any other ideas? if not, i could always see if my dm would go for a modified hordebreaker or a human styled dwarven defender
catharz 07-05-05, 11:25 PM	For a bodyguard, you can't beat three levels of Devoted Defender. Do whatever else you like, but Devoted Defender is the pancea. Here is a little list I put together at some point: Feats~ Allied defense [ShS] (Combat expertise.) Close-quarters fighting [CW]. Combat reflexes-FM. Deflect arrows-M (IUS.) Deft opportunist [MHB] (Dex 15, Combat reflexes), Goad [MHB] (Cha 13 & BAB+1.) Great throw [OA/Errata] (Combat reflexes, Dodge, Improved trip, & IUS-M.) Improved combat expertise [CW] (Combat expertise.) Improved combat reflexes [Dng 100] (Combat reflexes.) Karmic strike [CW] (Dodge & Combat expertise.) Mage slayer [CA]-F. Martial throw [MHB] (Dex 17, IUS.) Pierce magical concealment-F [CA] (Blind fight, Mage slayer.) Pierce magical protection-F (Mage slayer.) PrCs~ Devoted defender 1-3 [S&F]: Harm's way, Defensive strike, Deflect attack (BAB+5, Alertness, Weapon focus, Search, Sense motive, & Spot 4.) Knight protector 1-5 [CW]: Defensive stance (BAB+5, Diplomacy & Ride 6, Armor proficiency (Heavy), Cleave, Great cleave, Mounted combat, Power attack.) Tactical soldier 1-2 [MHB]: Flanker, Sidestep (BAB+5, Cleave, Combat reflexes.) Items~ Friend shield ring (50,000 gp.) Retributive amulet [BoED] (56,000 gp.) Wrathful healing [E&A] (+3.) :D
pyro_cat 07-06-05, 12:23 PM	thanks! some of them look a little heavy on the skills pre-req's, but i may pump his intelligence and pick up combat expertise this is what i had planned human fighter 18, 12, 16, 8, 8 ,8 (point buy) 1 fighter (2 flaws): WF Longsword, Brutal Throw, Able Learner, Power Attack, Cleave 2 fighter: Quick Draw 3 fighter: Iron Will 4 fighter: Improved Initiative 5 fighter (i dont want to replace this with barbarian, any other suggestions that fit?) 6 thayan knight: Alertness 7 thayan knight 8 thayan knight: Point Blank Shot 9 thayan knight: Precise Shot 10 thayan knight 11 devoted defender 12 devoted defender: great cleave 13 devoted defender 14 hordebreaker 15 hordebreaker: ??? 16 hordebreaker 17 hordebreaker 18 hordebreaker: ??? i want the ranged feats for situations where the melee is not immediately close by, but he needs to be by my character's side regardless
pyro_cat 07-06-05, 07:24 PM	For a bodyguard, you can't beat three levels of Devoted Defender. Do whatever else you like, but Devoted Defender is the pancea. Here is a little list I put together at some point: Feats~ Allied defense [ShS] (Combat expertise.) Close-quarters fighting [CW]. Combat reflexes-FM. Deflect arrows-M (IUS.) Deft opportunist [MHB] (Dex 15, Combat reflexes), Goad [MHB] (Cha 13 & BAB+1.) Great throw [OA/Errata] (Combat reflexes, Dodge, Improved trip, & IUS-M.) Improved combat expertise [CW] (Combat expertise.) Improved combat reflexes [Dng 100] (Combat reflexes.) Karmic strike [CW] (Dodge & Combat expertise.) Mage slayer [CA]-F. Martial throw [MHB] (Dex 17, IUS.) Pierce magical concealment-F [CA] (Blind fight, Mage slayer.) Pierce magical protection-F (Mage slayer.) PrCs~ Devoted defender 1-3 [S&F]: Harm's way, Defensive strike, Deflect attack (BAB+5, Alertness, Weapon focus, Search, Sense motive, & Spot 4.) Knight protector 1-5 [CW]: Defensive stance (BAB+5, Diplomacy & Ride 6, Armor proficiency (Heavy), Cleave, Great cleave, Mounted combat, Power attack.) Tactical soldier 1-2 [MHB]: Flanker, Sidestep (BAB+5, Cleave, Combat reflexes.) Items~ Friend shield ring (50,000 gp.) Retributive amulet [BoED] (56,000 gp.) Wrathful healing [E&A] (+3.) :D which book is "IUS"?
PhaedrusXY 07-06-05, 07:39 PM	which book is "IUS"?That's short for Improved Unarmed Strike (in the Player's).
pyro_cat 07-06-05, 07:42 PM	haha... duh thanks