Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EatFlan 08-19-04, 09:12 AM	What is the max muchkin potential of this class? Can all those 'rashimi elemental summoning' etc blah blah work for the bonded elemental? Can you use 'extra familiar' to get 2 ? 3? I think it has the potential to be way strong.
SaintX 08-19-04, 12:03 PM	im not familiar with the feat extra familiar, however the elemental is called, not summoned and therefore does not benefit from RES or augment summoning. there are some other tricks you can use to make this PrC nasty. share spells is the key. arcane disciple can also help a great deal. tensers transformation, the elemental gains BAB equal to its attack bonus and other bonuses at 16th level you can cast this spell. your companion will have a BAB of 24. enlarge person, because of the share spells feature, the type of the companion doesnt matter. righteous might. if you use arcane disciple to get a domain with this spell, it replaces enlarge person and if far more potent. bull's strength, cat's grace, bear's endurance. if you have time to get these spells off, great. it quickly becomes a wise investment to purchase the standard +6 stat items for your campanion. you could probably do some nasty and surprising thins with some transposition spells but i cant remember what book they are in to check.
EatFlan 08-19-04, 12:12 PM	Extra familiar you just get another familiar. Since the bonded creature takes the place of a familiar (right?) then can't you get 2 or more? I think that would just be the best.
SaintX 08-19-04, 12:25 PM	reason and sense are each holding a gun to my temples telling me to say NO! or they wil end my sad life. it may let you keep a regular familiar while you have an elemental companion. and therefore add improved familiar to it. a single elemental companion is the absolute biggest and best type of pet in the game. better than any standard or improved familiar, better than any standard druid animal companion, better than an elemental can potentially summon without rashemi elemental summoning, augment summoning, AND ashbound.
nyphoenix79 08-19-04, 01:26 PM	The whole thing about share spells.. IIRC doesn't the spell end if you and the familiar are ever more than 5 feet apart, unless the spell has a duration of instaneous... so i wouldnt plan using the share spells trick much unless you can guarantee staying within 5 feet all the time.
EatFlan 08-19-04, 01:36 PM	there is a feat or ability out there that increases that range to a mile...i know i heard of it. maybe someone can post. PS: SOrry i am very unspecific in all my posts for this thread, i know almost nothing about bonded summoners. just the idea.
SaintX 08-19-04, 01:59 PM	i should preface this by saying correct me if i am wrong share spells allows you to have the spells that you cast on yourself also affect your familiar. if a spell cast has a range of personal, the master of the familiar can choose to have it affect the familiar INSTEAD of himself. in this case, i dont believe that the distanceneeds to be maintained. even if it does, i wouldnt worry about it too much having an elder elemental around.
nyphoenix79 08-19-04, 02:30 PM	Doh! <smakcs forehead> :embarrass you are right...forgot about that whole casting it on the familiar instead of on you.. ignore what i said before, hehe.
EatFlan 08-19-04, 02:48 PM	Heres another thought to chew on, if you can't gain an extra elemental through the feat extra familiar can you simply enter the PcR again? Say do it to 10 once then start @ 1 again but this time w/a different elemental? Would that work?
Warduke 08-20-04, 07:10 PM	Any DM that would allow you to have 2 Elemental pets is a fool. I would look into other ways to optimize this build.