Bone Knight domain optimization [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bone Knight domain optimization [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
prototype00
03-24-06, 08:52 AM Hey all,
I've been reading 5 nations recently and I really like the bone knight prestige class. I figure that cleric into bone knight isn't a bad way to go (though paladin is a possibility too) and since I get two domains I was wondering what would be the best way to go about it.

As I understand it the major religions in Karrnath where the Bone Knight comes from are the Blood of Vol and the Sovreign host. Now the Blood of Vol is nice and all (or, well, not so nice as it were, but you get my point) but if you worship the sovreign host as a whole, you get to choose two domains from the whole range thereof. Plus, you're a spontaneous healer (which makes for better overall interaction with your party, I think), even better.

So I was wondering which domains people would pick for the bone knight out of the sovreign host, keeping in mind that the way I see it, the bone knight is going to have a somewhat melee/blaster/backup gestalt role.

I'm personally leaning towards the charm domain, the unnamed charisma boosts last for a whole minute, has nice synergy with the rebuking and death strike aspects of the class (as well as allowing you to get one last divine metamagic off if you really need to) And the domain spells, while not epic are somewhat in character for a commanding, leader of people and undead type I think.

But what should the second domain be? (and what do you think of the first domain?)

Thanks for all the help
prototype00
Jaisin
03-24-06, 09:09 AM I don't really know how optimized this method really is, but it works for me: when having a chance to pick Domains, I choose ones that 1) grant me abilities or feats that can be used more than once a day and are not CLERIC level dependent, 2) have good spell lists, hopefully including some wizard spells that I wouldn't normally have access to.

Planning nets you the Extend Spell feat, which if you're not already pursuing the DMM cheese of persistifying everything under the sun, will give you a great head start. Also, you get Time Stop as a 9th level spell. Time Stop.

Time - Improved Initiative Feat, plus Time Stop and Haste among others as domain spells.

Feats trump flavorful, 1/day abilities any day, and usually trump the +1 caster level bonuses as well. Look there first.
prototype00
03-24-06, 09:21 AM Well, thing is, Eberron, besides the new domains listed in the book, is actually pretty basic as far as domains go. I haven't seen the planning or the time domain yet. Maybe at some point in the future but, not right now, I'm afraid.

On another note, there are great roleplaying opportunities for a Blood of Vol worshipper who chooses not to follow Vol but Kaius instead. (after all Kaius has Blood of Vol worshippers in his harem) I'm just wondering if the law, death, or necromancer domain are good for anything. (the last domain is evil, and I'm hesistant to take the evil domain, its just not PC friendly)

Hmm, death, necromancer or law domains, good for anything?

prototype00
LogicNinja
03-24-06, 11:24 AM "War" strikes me as a good domain for a Bone Knight.

So does "Undeath" (extra turnings for Divine Metamagic), if you're going the non-good route. In fact, there's far too MANY death/undeath domains: Death, Undeath, Deathbound, Necromancer, Necromancy...
prototype00
03-24-06, 09:13 PM Hmm, war and charm it is then. It will have to be WF longsword, thanks to the sovreign host favored weapon being longsword. *I was kinda hoping for a scythe, but the dark 6 isn't worshipped much in Karrnath* Charm domain for when I want to rebuke and for the death strike lvl 9 ability. Any other tips for bone knight optimization?

prototype00
Nuclearsunburn
03-25-06, 12:25 AM I love the Bone Knight too... I made a post a little while back trying to figure out how to optimize it, and got some very interesting responses. I, like you, am trying to avoid the "evil" route, even though neutral is just fine.

First thing, though, I'm not 100% positive, but I'd say 95%, that the bone knight cannot be a spontaneous healer. At 1st level, he loses any turn undead ability he has and gains rebuke undead instead, trading the ability to channel positive energy for the ability to channel negative energy, which makes him able to spontaneously cast inflict spells instead.

As far as domains, I find Undeath very helpful in conjunction with a feat like Divine Might, as well as being useful with any divine metamagic cheesiness you'd like to pull off. extra rebuke attempts is never a bad thing.

In Eberron, remember, cleric's alignment does not have to be within one step of their deity... that's why you see LE clerics of the Silver Flame in more than one instance, so really, you could play a LG cleric of Vol if you really wanted to (albeit someone with some pretty serious delusions and naivete, but that's another story).. you could even play a good cleric of the dark six I suppose, if you really want the scythe. As far as actual OPTIMIZING, well, the best build I saw was a fully evil one utilizing Ur-Priest as the casting class and dipping into Blackguard later. I personally prefer the Cleric--->Prestige Paladin--->Boneknight---->Contemplative or Divine Oracle path for non-evil.

Hope this has helped a little bit, good luck with your Knight!
TheNegaDruid
03-25-06, 12:29 AM One very fun domain is Travel. It turns you into the group's Teleporter if you don't have access to a Wizard.
prototype00
03-25-06, 02:24 AM First thing, though, I'm not 100% positive, but I'd say 95%, that the bone knight cannot be a spontaneous healer. At 1st level, he loses any turn undead ability he has and gains rebuke undead instead, trading the ability to channel positive energy for the ability to channel negative energy, which makes him able to spontaneously cast inflict spells instead.

Well, thing is a neutral cleric of a neutral deity can be a spontaneous healer and a rebuker as well. Or at least theres nothing against it in the rules, however in this case I'm thinking of starting out as a LN cleric dedicated to the entire sovreign host (spontaneous healer and turner) who later becomes a bone knight (that only converts your turning to rebuking but does nothing for healing, even a paladin can still heal with its lay on hands ability after becoming a bone knight so I think it might be possible.)

Unfortunately in a strict eberron core setting, the undeath domain isn't available, otherwise I'd take it in an instant. If anyone can suggest better domains in Eberron for a bone knight than war and charm, I'm all ears.

In the meantime I'll probably take the quicken spell/ divine metamagic quicken spell combination and the rest of my feats will be extra turning. Not as effective as the radiant servant but still pretty good. I was thinking about extend and persistant, but its so expensive in terms of turning attempts and feats, and all it takes is a good dispel magic to ruin your day. On the other hand the quicken/divine metamagic combination is more versatile (melee and blasting) and allows you to put up buffs while making full attacks. Heres how I see it.

Round 1
Flame strike + Quickened divine favor (only a fifth level spell)

Round 2
Charge attack + Divine metamagic (quicken) Divine power

Round 3
Full attack + Divine metamagic (quicken) Righteous might

Round 4
Its probably dead, if not keep hitting it. ^_^

There, all the advantages of persistant in 3 easy rounds.

If there is a specific ruling against the spontaneous healing bone knight, please, please show it to me that I might adjust the character. (Maybe take tomb tainted soul or something) And thanks for all your help. ^_^ I'll probably be posting a build sometime soon.

prototype00

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
prototype00 03-24-06, 08:52 AM	Hey all, I've been reading 5 nations recently and I really like the bone knight prestige class. I figure that cleric into bone knight isn't a bad way to go (though paladin is a possibility too) and since I get two domains I was wondering what would be the best way to go about it. As I understand it the major religions in Karrnath where the Bone Knight comes from are the Blood of Vol and the Sovreign host. Now the Blood of Vol is nice and all (or, well, not so nice as it were, but you get my point) but if you worship the sovreign host as a whole, you get to choose two domains from the whole range thereof. Plus, you're a spontaneous healer (which makes for better overall interaction with your party, I think), even better. So I was wondering which domains people would pick for the bone knight out of the sovreign host, keeping in mind that the way I see it, the bone knight is going to have a somewhat melee/blaster/backup gestalt role. I'm personally leaning towards the charm domain, the unnamed charisma boosts last for a whole minute, has nice synergy with the rebuking and death strike aspects of the class (as well as allowing you to get one last divine metamagic off if you really need to) And the domain spells, while not epic are somewhat in character for a commanding, leader of people and undead type I think. But what should the second domain be? (and what do you think of the first domain?) Thanks for all the help prototype00
Jaisin 03-24-06, 09:09 AM	I don't really know how optimized this method really is, but it works for me: when having a chance to pick Domains, I choose ones that 1) grant me abilities or feats that can be used more than once a day and are not CLERIC level dependent, 2) have good spell lists, hopefully including some wizard spells that I wouldn't normally have access to. Planning nets you the Extend Spell feat, which if you're not already pursuing the DMM cheese of persistifying everything under the sun, will give you a great head start. Also, you get Time Stop as a 9th level spell. Time Stop. Time - Improved Initiative Feat, plus Time Stop and Haste among others as domain spells. Feats trump flavorful, 1/day abilities any day, and usually trump the +1 caster level bonuses as well. Look there first.
prototype00 03-24-06, 09:21 AM	Well, thing is, Eberron, besides the new domains listed in the book, is actually pretty basic as far as domains go. I haven't seen the planning or the time domain yet. Maybe at some point in the future but, not right now, I'm afraid. On another note, there are great roleplaying opportunities for a Blood of Vol worshipper who chooses not to follow Vol but Kaius instead. (after all Kaius has Blood of Vol worshippers in his harem) I'm just wondering if the law, death, or necromancer domain are good for anything. (the last domain is evil, and I'm hesistant to take the evil domain, its just not PC friendly) Hmm, death, necromancer or law domains, good for anything? prototype00
LogicNinja 03-24-06, 11:24 AM	"War" strikes me as a good domain for a Bone Knight. So does "Undeath" (extra turnings for Divine Metamagic), if you're going the non-good route. In fact, there's far too MANY death/undeath domains: Death, Undeath, Deathbound, Necromancer, Necromancy...
prototype00 03-24-06, 09:13 PM	Hmm, war and charm it is then. It will have to be WF longsword, thanks to the sovreign host favored weapon being longsword. I was kinda hoping for a scythe, but the dark 6 isn't worshipped much in Karrnath Charm domain for when I want to rebuke and for the death strike lvl 9 ability. Any other tips for bone knight optimization? prototype00
Nuclearsunburn 03-25-06, 12:25 AM	I love the Bone Knight too... I made a post a little while back trying to figure out how to optimize it, and got some very interesting responses. I, like you, am trying to avoid the "evil" route, even though neutral is just fine. First thing, though, I'm not 100% positive, but I'd say 95%, that the bone knight cannot be a spontaneous healer. At 1st level, he loses any turn undead ability he has and gains rebuke undead instead, trading the ability to channel positive energy for the ability to channel negative energy, which makes him able to spontaneously cast inflict spells instead. As far as domains, I find Undeath very helpful in conjunction with a feat like Divine Might, as well as being useful with any divine metamagic cheesiness you'd like to pull off. extra rebuke attempts is never a bad thing. In Eberron, remember, cleric's alignment does not have to be within one step of their deity... that's why you see LE clerics of the Silver Flame in more than one instance, so really, you could play a LG cleric of Vol if you really wanted to (albeit someone with some pretty serious delusions and naivete, but that's another story).. you could even play a good cleric of the dark six I suppose, if you really want the scythe. As far as actual OPTIMIZING, well, the best build I saw was a fully evil one utilizing Ur-Priest as the casting class and dipping into Blackguard later. I personally prefer the Cleric--->Prestige Paladin--->Boneknight---->Contemplative or Divine Oracle path for non-evil. Hope this has helped a little bit, good luck with your Knight!
TheNegaDruid 03-25-06, 12:29 AM	One very fun domain is Travel. It turns you into the group's Teleporter if you don't have access to a Wizard.
prototype00 03-25-06, 02:24 AM	First thing, though, I'm not 100% positive, but I'd say 95%, that the bone knight cannot be a spontaneous healer. At 1st level, he loses any turn undead ability he has and gains rebuke undead instead, trading the ability to channel positive energy for the ability to channel negative energy, which makes him able to spontaneously cast inflict spells instead. Well, thing is a neutral cleric of a neutral deity can be a spontaneous healer and a rebuker as well. Or at least theres nothing against it in the rules, however in this case I'm thinking of starting out as a LN cleric dedicated to the entire sovreign host (spontaneous healer and turner) who later becomes a bone knight (that only converts your turning to rebuking but does nothing for healing, even a paladin can still heal with its lay on hands ability after becoming a bone knight so I think it might be possible.) Unfortunately in a strict eberron core setting, the undeath domain isn't available, otherwise I'd take it in an instant. If anyone can suggest better domains in Eberron for a bone knight than war and charm, I'm all ears. In the meantime I'll probably take the quicken spell/ divine metamagic quicken spell combination and the rest of my feats will be extra turning. Not as effective as the radiant servant but still pretty good. I was thinking about extend and persistant, but its so expensive in terms of turning attempts and feats, and all it takes is a good dispel magic to ruin your day. On the other hand the quicken/divine metamagic combination is more versatile (melee and blasting) and allows you to put up buffs while making full attacks. Heres how I see it. Round 1 Flame strike + Quickened divine favor (only a fifth level spell) Round 2 Charge attack + Divine metamagic (quicken) Divine power Round 3 Full attack + Divine metamagic (quicken) Righteous might Round 4 Its probably dead, if not keep hitting it. ^_^ There, all the advantages of persistant in 3 easy rounds. If there is a specific ruling against the spontaneous healing bone knight, please, please show it to me that I might adjust the character. (Maybe take tomb tainted soul or something) And thanks for all your help. ^_^ I'll probably be posting a build sometime soon. prototype00