Bone-Daddy, Necromancy. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bone-Daddy, Necromancy. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DrakeRunner
09-09-06, 12:51 PM Ok, I'm going to be playing a game where I will NOT have access to ressurection magic, so I want to get myself some meat shields. I want to play a Cleric of Wee Jas focusing on the animation of Skeletons. Okay, not technically meat shields I guess. Control is not too much of an issue, the DM has allowed me to double my control ability as part of a special perk system. Also, morality is not an issue.

I've already taken the Corpsecrafter and Nimble Bones feats from the Libris Mortis. Am I missing anything else?
prototype00
09-09-06, 01:19 PM Tomb tainted soul? Just so you can heal yourself and your skeltons when you need to.

A miniature alter to wee jas that you can cast desecrate on when you want to animate dead (for the extra hit points)

Hmm, master of shrouds wasn't a bad PrC for the necromantically inclined cleric, I think its in libris mortis.

Thats mostly what I can think of now.

prototype00
Satori
09-09-06, 02:10 PM Do a search for K's "Revised Necromancer Handbook".

It might help if you let us know what books are allowed, what ECL you're starting at, your stats, etc...
DrakeRunner
09-09-06, 08:11 PM My DM is allowing stuff on a case by case basis, not just books he has. Just as long as he can confirm I'm not BSing him.

Human(ish) Cleric Of Wee Jas Level 1
Lawful Neutral
10 Str
12 Dex
14 Con
14 Int
18 Wis
16 Cha

My DM is disallowing ressurection in his campaign, but is allowing perks to make up for it, and has allowed me double undead control (8 HD instead of 4 HD per level under animate Dead).
jstorrie
09-09-06, 09:30 PM Fearless Destiny (Races of Destiny) is pretty useful in a no-resurrection campaign.
Xaktsaroth
09-10-06, 12:18 AM Check out Necrosis in my Triad of the Shadows link in my .sig. Might give you a few ideas. :)
Pinky's brain
09-10-06, 12:27 AM I wouldn't get too attached to the character, unless you use the "erase the name and put in a new one" method of resurrection :) Tomb touched soul combined with Necrosis Carnex from MM4 is a nice thing to have at this point in the game (where it won't instantly die).
DrakeRunner
09-10-06, 12:38 AM I think you guys misunderstand me. I'm not going with necromancy to cheat death, I'm going with necromancy to have a wall of Skeletons between me and my death.
Pinky's brain
09-10-06, 12:49 AM What are you reading? All the suggestions were just about how to make your character better, they have nothing to do with cheating death (well except for fearless destiny, and that's not so much cheating death ... just not dieing).

BTW, no matter how many skeletons you put up ... in the end it comes down to luck and the DM pulling his punches. Which is why I never see the point in taking out resurrection, resurrection cheapens death they say? Well, lack of resurrection cheapens the game.
Dark1ord
09-10-06, 01:10 AM A miniature alter to wee jas that you can cast desecrate on when you want to animate dead (for the extra hit points)you're referring to the sentence "an undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD", right? I'm wondering whether that bonus stays when outside the area - or not.
PhaedrusXY
09-10-06, 01:29 AM They're not stated to be temporary hit points, so they're permanent hit points. So yes, they stay. If the area has a permanent altar to an evil deity, it is 2 hit points per hit die.

Since obviously it is possible to come back in Undeath, even if it isn't possible to come back as a living being, I'd look into spells that can bring your character back as an undead if it dies. A Contingent Create Undead (Bone/Corpse Creature) is a good one. There are other lower level options, though.
gorfnad the shiznit
09-10-06, 02:14 AM Do a search for K's "Revised Necromancer Handbook".

It might help if you let us know what books are allowed, what ECL you're starting at, your stats, etc...

Found them for you.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=590896
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=599129
Dark1ord
09-10-06, 12:43 PM They're not stated to be temporary hit points, so they're permanent hit points. So yes, they stay. If the area has a permanent altar to an evil deity, it is 2 hit points per hit die.hmm... it's a bit hazy (like so much else is) - Desecrate description: "This spell imbues an area with negative energy [...] every undead creature entering a desecrated area gains a +1 profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD. If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power*, the modifiers given above are doubled (-6 profane penalty on turning checks, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points per HD for undead in the area)" (emphasis mine - *note: not necessarily evil).

now, I'm just not sure it's supposed to mean that those hitpoints are permanent. the notion of it being an effect in the area is important... besides, I never understood the mentioning of summoning an undead (is there a spell that does that in core?). why would this yield permanent hitpoints? based on that oddness, I don't think the created ones get permanent hitpoints either. I think it means it's only while they're in that area.

I would like it to mean they were permanent, I'm just hesitating that call. ;) (I have a cleric with Corpsecrafter who would appreciate additional permanent hitpoints hehe.)
PhaedrusXY
09-10-06, 01:11 PM You could summon undead with a Gate or Planar Binding spell, if they were on another plane at the time you cast the spell.

The undead don't just get the hit points for entering the area, they get them for being created there. If an undead has more hit points due to the way it was created, then it has more hit points... period. It is obvious to me that those should be permanent hit points. Otherwise, all undead that even walk into the area should get them.

I really don't even know how to argue with you on this, as it seems obvious to me... As much as I hate to say it... maybe you should ask customer service. I can't remember if they address this in Libris Mortis somewhere or not. They certainly should have...
Dark1ord
09-10-06, 02:03 PM You could summon undead with a Gate or Planar Binding spell, if they were on another plane at the time you cast the spell.yeah, but would that mean that you could acquire an undead (command), planeshift it away, summon it back into a desecrated area, and then it would have more hitpoints? just for the sake of the mechanics discussion.
I really don't even know how to argue with you on this, as it seems obvious to me... As much as I hate to say it... maybe you should ask customer service. I can't remember if they address this in Libris Mortis somewhere or not. They certainly should have...haven't found anything in LM. and hey, as mentioned, I want it to work that way. more hitpoints = good! we like! ;)
PhaedrusXY
09-10-06, 03:32 PM yeah, but would that mean that you could acquire an undead (command), planeshift it away, summon it back into a desecrated area, and then it would have more hitpoints? just for the sake of the mechanics discussion.That doesn't make alot of sense, does it? Hmm... I always just assumed that the summoning part was there to interact with spells like Summon Undead, but that isn't core. Maybe this is a rare moment of foresight on the part of the authors of Desecrate? :D
Dark1ord
09-11-06, 05:22 PM word from customer support: "The hit points would be permanent so long as the Undead was Created or Summoned into the Desecrated area."

foresight or not; we like.
PhaedrusXY
09-11-06, 05:38 PM Awesome. Mind posting the whole message?
Dark1ord
09-12-06, 08:24 AM actually, I already did! :D

or did you mean - including the question I posed?

anyways, it seems pretty simple. a bit odd, still, but hey - it's magic. ;)
DrakeRunner
09-12-06, 11:30 AM Its not so hard to imagine, Desecrate heightens the negative energy connection to undead as they enter this plane, from the outer planes or Negative plane.

Well, I'm guessing this thread is well and about to die, but at the very least, you guys reminded me to use Desecrate.
Dark1ord
09-12-06, 12:27 PM Its not so hard to imagine, Desecrate heightens the negative energy connection to undead as they enter this plane, from the outer planes or Negative plane.yeah but from a game mechanic standpoint, it's - "odd", in lack of better terms.
Well, I'm guessing this thread is well and about to die, but at the very least, you guys reminded me to use Desecrate.don't forget "an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power"! ;)
NinjaFerret
09-12-06, 02:37 PM I have one word Palemaster from the tome of blood try it out. You get the best of all worlds.
PhaedrusXY
09-12-06, 05:53 PM actually, I already did! :D

or did you mean - including the question I posed?

anyways, it seems pretty simple. a bit odd, still, but hey - it's magic. ;)I mean post a copy of the entire email with the Cust-Serv guys name, your question, etc. Just leave out your real name. That way people can use this post as a reference.
Dark1ord
09-12-06, 06:11 PM ok, so, something like:

---
Desecrate - bonus hit points

Question (Dark1ord) 09/10/2006 01:41 PM: The notion of summoning seems odd. An example: You bring an undead to another plane, leave it there, return home, and summon it back to you, using a desecrate spell beforehand. Now the undead suddenly has more hitpoints. Now, if the hit point bonus isn't permanent, this wouldn't be so weird, but it sounds like the bonus is in fact permanent - which works for creation, but seems odd for summoning. So how do these extra hitpoints work? Permanent or not?

Response (Brandon) 09/11/2006 02:10 PM: The hit points would be permanent so long as the Undead was Created or Summoned into the Desecrated area.
---

only edited a little bit.
PhaedrusXY
09-12-06, 06:25 PM Wow, you even gave them the "worst case scenario" and they still answered they are permanent. :D
Dark1ord
09-12-06, 06:43 PM yeah that was sort of the test, so to speak. ;)

not that it's exploitable or anything... or at least, I can't think of anything. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DrakeRunner 09-09-06, 12:51 PM	Ok, I'm going to be playing a game where I will NOT have access to ressurection magic, so I want to get myself some meat shields. I want to play a Cleric of Wee Jas focusing on the animation of Skeletons. Okay, not technically meat shields I guess. Control is not too much of an issue, the DM has allowed me to double my control ability as part of a special perk system. Also, morality is not an issue. I've already taken the Corpsecrafter and Nimble Bones feats from the Libris Mortis. Am I missing anything else?
prototype00 09-09-06, 01:19 PM	Tomb tainted soul? Just so you can heal yourself and your skeltons when you need to. A miniature alter to wee jas that you can cast desecrate on when you want to animate dead (for the extra hit points) Hmm, master of shrouds wasn't a bad PrC for the necromantically inclined cleric, I think its in libris mortis. Thats mostly what I can think of now. prototype00
Satori 09-09-06, 02:10 PM	Do a search for K's "Revised Necromancer Handbook". It might help if you let us know what books are allowed, what ECL you're starting at, your stats, etc...
DrakeRunner 09-09-06, 08:11 PM	My DM is allowing stuff on a case by case basis, not just books he has. Just as long as he can confirm I'm not BSing him. Human(ish) Cleric Of Wee Jas Level 1 Lawful Neutral 10 Str 12 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 18 Wis 16 Cha My DM is disallowing ressurection in his campaign, but is allowing perks to make up for it, and has allowed me double undead control (8 HD instead of 4 HD per level under animate Dead).
jstorrie 09-09-06, 09:30 PM	Fearless Destiny (Races of Destiny) is pretty useful in a no-resurrection campaign.
Xaktsaroth 09-10-06, 12:18 AM	Check out Necrosis in my Triad of the Shadows link in my .sig. Might give you a few ideas. :)
Pinky's brain 09-10-06, 12:27 AM	I wouldn't get too attached to the character, unless you use the "erase the name and put in a new one" method of resurrection :) Tomb touched soul combined with Necrosis Carnex from MM4 is a nice thing to have at this point in the game (where it won't instantly die).
DrakeRunner 09-10-06, 12:38 AM	I think you guys misunderstand me. I'm not going with necromancy to cheat death, I'm going with necromancy to have a wall of Skeletons between me and my death.
Pinky's brain 09-10-06, 12:49 AM	What are you reading? All the suggestions were just about how to make your character better, they have nothing to do with cheating death (well except for fearless destiny, and that's not so much cheating death ... just not dieing). BTW, no matter how many skeletons you put up ... in the end it comes down to luck and the DM pulling his punches. Which is why I never see the point in taking out resurrection, resurrection cheapens death they say? Well, lack of resurrection cheapens the game.
Dark1ord 09-10-06, 01:10 AM	A miniature alter to wee jas that you can cast desecrate on when you want to animate dead (for the extra hit points)you're referring to the sentence "an undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD", right? I'm wondering whether that bonus stays when outside the area - or not.
PhaedrusXY 09-10-06, 01:29 AM	They're not stated to be temporary hit points, so they're permanent hit points. So yes, they stay. If the area has a permanent altar to an evil deity, it is 2 hit points per hit die. Since obviously it is possible to come back in Undeath, even if it isn't possible to come back as a living being, I'd look into spells that can bring your character back as an undead if it dies. A Contingent Create Undead (Bone/Corpse Creature) is a good one. There are other lower level options, though.
gorfnad the shiznit 09-10-06, 02:14 AM	Do a search for K's "Revised Necromancer Handbook". It might help if you let us know what books are allowed, what ECL you're starting at, your stats, etc... Found them for you. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=590896 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=599129
Dark1ord 09-10-06, 12:43 PM	They're not stated to be temporary hit points, so they're permanent hit points. So yes, they stay. If the area has a permanent altar to an evil deity, it is 2 hit points per hit die.hmm... it's a bit hazy (like so much else is) - Desecrate description: "This spell imbues an area with negative energy [...] every undead creature entering a desecrated area gains a +1 profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD. If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled (-6 profane penalty on turning checks, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points per HD for undead in the area)" (emphasis mine - note: not necessarily evil). now, I'm just not sure it's supposed to mean that those hitpoints are permanent. the notion of it being an effect in the area is important... besides, I never understood the mentioning of summoning an undead (is there a spell that does that in core?). why would this yield permanent hitpoints? based on that oddness, I don't think the created ones get permanent hitpoints either. I think it means it's only while they're in that area. I would like it to mean they were permanent, I'm just hesitating that call. ;) (I have a cleric with Corpsecrafter who would appreciate additional permanent hitpoints hehe.)
PhaedrusXY 09-10-06, 01:11 PM	You could summon undead with a Gate or Planar Binding spell, if they were on another plane at the time you cast the spell. The undead don't just get the hit points for entering the area, they get them for being created there. If an undead has more hit points due to the way it was created, then it has more hit points... period. It is obvious to me that those should be permanent hit points. Otherwise, all undead that even walk into the area should get them. I really don't even know how to argue with you on this, as it seems obvious to me... As much as I hate to say it... maybe you should ask customer service. I can't remember if they address this in Libris Mortis somewhere or not. They certainly should have...
Dark1ord 09-10-06, 02:03 PM	You could summon undead with a Gate or Planar Binding spell, if they were on another plane at the time you cast the spell.yeah, but would that mean that you could acquire an undead (command), planeshift it away, summon it back into a desecrated area, and then it would have more hitpoints? just for the sake of the mechanics discussion. I really don't even know how to argue with you on this, as it seems obvious to me... As much as I hate to say it... maybe you should ask customer service. I can't remember if they address this in Libris Mortis somewhere or not. They certainly should have...haven't found anything in LM. and hey, as mentioned, I want it to work that way. more hitpoints = good! we like! ;)
PhaedrusXY 09-10-06, 03:32 PM	yeah, but would that mean that you could acquire an undead (command), planeshift it away, summon it back into a desecrated area, and then it would have more hitpoints? just for the sake of the mechanics discussion.That doesn't make alot of sense, does it? Hmm... I always just assumed that the summoning part was there to interact with spells like Summon Undead, but that isn't core. Maybe this is a rare moment of foresight on the part of the authors of Desecrate? :D
Dark1ord 09-11-06, 05:22 PM	word from customer support: "The hit points would be permanent so long as the Undead was Created or Summoned into the Desecrated area." foresight or not; we like.
PhaedrusXY 09-11-06, 05:38 PM	Awesome. Mind posting the whole message?
Dark1ord 09-12-06, 08:24 AM	actually, I already did! :D or did you mean - including the question I posed? anyways, it seems pretty simple. a bit odd, still, but hey - it's magic. ;)
DrakeRunner 09-12-06, 11:30 AM	Its not so hard to imagine, Desecrate heightens the negative energy connection to undead as they enter this plane, from the outer planes or Negative plane. Well, I'm guessing this thread is well and about to die, but at the very least, you guys reminded me to use Desecrate.
Dark1ord 09-12-06, 12:27 PM	Its not so hard to imagine, Desecrate heightens the negative energy connection to undead as they enter this plane, from the outer planes or Negative plane.yeah but from a game mechanic standpoint, it's - "odd", in lack of better terms. Well, I'm guessing this thread is well and about to die, but at the very least, you guys reminded me to use Desecrate.don't forget "an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power"! ;)
NinjaFerret 09-12-06, 02:37 PM	I have one word Palemaster from the tome of blood try it out. You get the best of all worlds.
PhaedrusXY 09-12-06, 05:53 PM	actually, I already did! :D or did you mean - including the question I posed? anyways, it seems pretty simple. a bit odd, still, but hey - it's magic. ;)I mean post a copy of the entire email with the Cust-Serv guys name, your question, etc. Just leave out your real name. That way people can use this post as a reference.
Dark1ord 09-12-06, 06:11 PM	ok, so, something like: --- Desecrate - bonus hit points Question (Dark1ord) 09/10/2006 01:41 PM: The notion of summoning seems odd. An example: You bring an undead to another plane, leave it there, return home, and summon it back to you, using a desecrate spell beforehand. Now the undead suddenly has more hitpoints. Now, if the hit point bonus isn't permanent, this wouldn't be so weird, but it sounds like the bonus is in fact permanent - which works for creation, but seems odd for summoning. So how do these extra hitpoints work? Permanent or not? Response (Brandon) 09/11/2006 02:10 PM: The hit points would be permanent so long as the Undead was Created or Summoned into the Desecrated area. --- only edited a little bit.
PhaedrusXY 09-12-06, 06:25 PM	Wow, you even gave them the "worst case scenario" and they still answered they are permanent. :D
Dark1ord 09-12-06, 06:43 PM	yeah that was sort of the test, so to speak. ;) not that it's exploitable or anything... or at least, I can't think of anything. :P