Boosing my spiked chain Goliath fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Boosing my spiked chain Goliath fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kiras
07-19-06, 04:53 PM Hello, I'm quite fresh in 3.5, and I need help with the level advancement of my goliath fighter, who specializes in spiked chain fight.
DM gave us ECL 5, so I have 4 levels to dispense (goliath has LA +1).

Str 17, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 13 (atributes after level advancement and racial modification)

My guess for feats is:

1. Combat expertise, Exotic weapon prof. (spiked chain)
2. Improved trip
3. Combat reflexes
4. Dodge or Weapon focus (spiked chain)

I've doubts because i'm not sure of taking Karmic strike on 6th level. What do ou think? What other classes (prc) do you propose for the ultimate spiked chain master and his advancement? :)

Thanks in advance
Kiras
Maxxim
07-19-06, 08:23 PM I too am building a fighter specializing in spiked chains. My thought was to get to whirlwind attack as fast as I could (exotic proficiency, dodge, mobility, spring attack, combat expertise, whirlwind attack, in no specific order, are the requirements).

I think spring attack with a reach weapon (that can also be used up close) will be very helpful, but what excites me is being able to do a whirlwind attack, taking a shot at every enemy within 10 feet of me.

My thoughts on improved trip and improved disarm are that they would be helpful, especially since the chain itself already gives a trip bonus, so you're getting +8, but I am going to wait on that one until I have the above feats. I am more excited about the multiple attacks than the bonus to tripping one enemy.

I have no idea how it's going to play out, but it strikes me as a good way to go. And since your goliath is going to be doing even more damage using a larger sized chain, it might even work better for you than me.
vogster
07-19-06, 08:29 PM My thoughts on improved trip and improved disarm are that they would be helpful, especially since the chain itself already gives a trip bonus, so you're getting +8, but I am going to wait on that one until I have the above feats. I am more excited about the multiple attacks than the bonus to tripping one enemy.

I think you might want to double check what it says for "chain, spiked" in the PHB. It grants a +2 bonus on disarm checks but no bonus to tripping other than allowing you to drop it if you get beat on your trip check.
PhoenixInferno
07-19-06, 08:31 PM Whirlwind Attack is a terrible idea - in order to get all those attacks, you have to be surrounded, and when is that ever a good idea? I would take Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain) and get into Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior) as soon as possible.
LordBOB777
07-19-06, 09:11 PM Whirlwind Attack is a terrible idea - in order to get all those attacks, you have to be surrounded, and when is that ever a good idea?

If you spring attack then the person you srping attack doesnt get an AoO but everyone else will.

Though since you are using a spiked chain with a reach of 10ft. Are you provoking an AoO since your not threatning their square (depending on their size)
Maxxim
07-20-06, 12:41 PM Whirlwind Attack is a terrible idea - in order to get all those attacks, you have to be surrounded, and when is that ever a good idea? I would take Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain) and get into Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior) as soon as possible.

I don't think you'd have to be surrounded. Sure, if there were 8 enemies, I might have to jump in the middle to attack all of them. But there might be 3 or 4 enemies in front of me, within 10 feet. I could attack all of them without provoking AoO.
PhoenixInferno
07-20-06, 01:09 PM And having that many opponents closing in on you is a good situation, when? In that situation, I would rather attack one as a standard action and step back and force them into my reach and draw AoOs - and if I used Standstill (XPH, but not a Psionic feat), I could keep them there. Much smarter. Or I could trip them.
Khan the Destroyer
07-21-06, 02:41 AM Well... switching out a level of fighter for a level of barbarian would open up the goliath substitution level in Races of Stone. When you rage, you gain more strength and become large. This increases your reach to 20 ft. (since reach weapons double your normal threat range) and gives you a better chance to trip. The increased reach is especially nice in an AoO build.

If you are allowed some material from Unearthed Arcana, the Wolf Totem Barbarian gives you Improved Trip at second level instead of Uncanny Dodge (or whatever it is you gain). This would make your build Fighter 2/Barbarian 2. You don't actually lose any feats because you no longer need Combat Expertise as a prerequisite feat, and you gain Improved Trip from barbarian. You wouldn't need the 13 intelligence as well.

Even if you can't use Unearthed Arcana, I think the barbarian substitution level is worth looking into.
Big_Mac
07-21-06, 02:34 PM And having that many opponents closing in on you is a good situation, when? In that situation, I would rather attack one as a standard action and step back and force them into my reach and draw AoOs - and if I used Standstill (XPH, but not a Psionic feat), I could keep them there. Much smarter. Or I could trip them.

Phoenix man you do hate the WWA feat. I think it is great feat for fighting large numbers of 2 and 3 HD creatures when you are 5th or 6th level. If I was fighting 2 orges I would just use SA and dance away. It's all about tactics.
Surreal
07-21-06, 02:56 PM Phoenix man you do hate the WWA feat. I think it is great feat for fighting large numbers of 2 and 3 HD creatures when you are 5th or 6th level. If I was fighting 2 orges I would just use SA and dance away. It's all about tactics.
As mentioned before, WWA requires surrounding yourself with enemies, which is usually a bad idea. It's also a full round action, which makes it even more difficult to set up. As well, WWA is a decidely offensive related feat, whereas its hefty prereqs are all more defensive. For an offensive melee character, you'd get much more mileage out of power attack, cleave, and shock trooper. You don't have to place yourself in the midst of danger, and against mobs of low HD creatures your charging cleaving attack will probably do more damage overall than a WWA.
LordPendragon
07-21-06, 03:07 PM And nobody's suggested Vexing Flanker and Adaptible Flanker yet. That's not good, especially since if this is an AoO heavy build then the prerequisite (Combat Reflexes) is already covered.

Thos 2 feats together give you a +4 bonus on attack rolls when attack an enemy whose opposite side you also threaten. It'll also give your allies flanking bonuses on attacks, since the enemy counts as flanked.
Big_Mac
07-21-06, 03:07 PM As mentioned before, WWA requires surrounding yourself with enemies, which is usually a bad idea. It's also a full round action, which makes it even more difficult to set up. As well, WWA is a decidely offensive related feat, whereas its hefty prereqs are all more defensive. For an offensive melee character, you'd get much more mileage out of power attack, cleave, and shock trooper. You don't have to place yourself in the midst of danger, and against mobs of low HD creatures your charging cleaving attack will probably do more damage overall than a WWA.

I am going to respecfully disagree. At 6th level my current fighter wiped the board of 20 Sahguan. The party took care of 5 others and 5 lizard men. I was surround by never less than 3 and as many as 5. I only missed 1 and had none survive the one hit. Except the big one he took 2. I took 0 damage.
PhoenixInferno
07-21-06, 03:22 PM If I found myself fighting 20 opponents about 3-4 HD below mine, then I might be wishing for WWA. Or I could let the spellcasters take care of it with a Fireball or a Evard's Black Tentacles.
Surreal
07-21-06, 04:26 PM I am going to respecfully disagree. At 6th level my current fighter wiped the board of 20 Sahguan. The party took care of 5 others and 5 lizard men. I was surround by never less than 3 and as many as 5. I only missed 1 and had none survive the one hit. Except the big one he took 2. I took 0 damage.
If you're consistently fighting mobs where each opponent can be dropped with a single hit, then WWA is alright. The chances of this happening however usually decrease as you level up, as monsters become more powerful and their hit points increase subtantially. But if your DM likes to give you plenty of fodder to smack around, then WWA by all means. It's not like straight fighters don't have the feats to spare anyways.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kiras 07-19-06, 04:53 PM	Hello, I'm quite fresh in 3.5, and I need help with the level advancement of my goliath fighter, who specializes in spiked chain fight. DM gave us ECL 5, so I have 4 levels to dispense (goliath has LA +1). Str 17, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 13 (atributes after level advancement and racial modification) My guess for feats is: 1. Combat expertise, Exotic weapon prof. (spiked chain) 2. Improved trip 3. Combat reflexes 4. Dodge or Weapon focus (spiked chain) I've doubts because i'm not sure of taking Karmic strike on 6th level. What do ou think? What other classes (prc) do you propose for the ultimate spiked chain master and his advancement? :) Thanks in advance Kiras
Maxxim 07-19-06, 08:23 PM	I too am building a fighter specializing in spiked chains. My thought was to get to whirlwind attack as fast as I could (exotic proficiency, dodge, mobility, spring attack, combat expertise, whirlwind attack, in no specific order, are the requirements). I think spring attack with a reach weapon (that can also be used up close) will be very helpful, but what excites me is being able to do a whirlwind attack, taking a shot at every enemy within 10 feet of me. My thoughts on improved trip and improved disarm are that they would be helpful, especially since the chain itself already gives a trip bonus, so you're getting +8, but I am going to wait on that one until I have the above feats. I am more excited about the multiple attacks than the bonus to tripping one enemy. I have no idea how it's going to play out, but it strikes me as a good way to go. And since your goliath is going to be doing even more damage using a larger sized chain, it might even work better for you than me.
vogster 07-19-06, 08:29 PM	My thoughts on improved trip and improved disarm are that they would be helpful, especially since the chain itself already gives a trip bonus, so you're getting +8, but I am going to wait on that one until I have the above feats. I am more excited about the multiple attacks than the bonus to tripping one enemy. I think you might want to double check what it says for "chain, spiked" in the PHB. It grants a +2 bonus on disarm checks but no bonus to tripping other than allowing you to drop it if you get beat on your trip check.
PhoenixInferno 07-19-06, 08:31 PM	Whirlwind Attack is a terrible idea - in order to get all those attacks, you have to be surrounded, and when is that ever a good idea? I would take Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain) and get into Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior) as soon as possible.
LordBOB777 07-19-06, 09:11 PM	Whirlwind Attack is a terrible idea - in order to get all those attacks, you have to be surrounded, and when is that ever a good idea? If you spring attack then the person you srping attack doesnt get an AoO but everyone else will. Though since you are using a spiked chain with a reach of 10ft. Are you provoking an AoO since your not threatning their square (depending on their size)
Maxxim 07-20-06, 12:41 PM	Whirlwind Attack is a terrible idea - in order to get all those attacks, you have to be surrounded, and when is that ever a good idea? I would take Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain) and get into Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior) as soon as possible. I don't think you'd have to be surrounded. Sure, if there were 8 enemies, I might have to jump in the middle to attack all of them. But there might be 3 or 4 enemies in front of me, within 10 feet. I could attack all of them without provoking AoO.
PhoenixInferno 07-20-06, 01:09 PM	And having that many opponents closing in on you is a good situation, when? In that situation, I would rather attack one as a standard action and step back and force them into my reach and draw AoOs - and if I used Standstill (XPH, but not a Psionic feat), I could keep them there. Much smarter. Or I could trip them.
Khan the Destroyer 07-21-06, 02:41 AM	Well... switching out a level of fighter for a level of barbarian would open up the goliath substitution level in Races of Stone. When you rage, you gain more strength and become large. This increases your reach to 20 ft. (since reach weapons double your normal threat range) and gives you a better chance to trip. The increased reach is especially nice in an AoO build. If you are allowed some material from Unearthed Arcana, the Wolf Totem Barbarian gives you Improved Trip at second level instead of Uncanny Dodge (or whatever it is you gain). This would make your build Fighter 2/Barbarian 2. You don't actually lose any feats because you no longer need Combat Expertise as a prerequisite feat, and you gain Improved Trip from barbarian. You wouldn't need the 13 intelligence as well. Even if you can't use Unearthed Arcana, I think the barbarian substitution level is worth looking into.
Big_Mac 07-21-06, 02:34 PM	And having that many opponents closing in on you is a good situation, when? In that situation, I would rather attack one as a standard action and step back and force them into my reach and draw AoOs - and if I used Standstill (XPH, but not a Psionic feat), I could keep them there. Much smarter. Or I could trip them. Phoenix man you do hate the WWA feat. I think it is great feat for fighting large numbers of 2 and 3 HD creatures when you are 5th or 6th level. If I was fighting 2 orges I would just use SA and dance away. It's all about tactics.
Surreal 07-21-06, 02:56 PM	Phoenix man you do hate the WWA feat. I think it is great feat for fighting large numbers of 2 and 3 HD creatures when you are 5th or 6th level. If I was fighting 2 orges I would just use SA and dance away. It's all about tactics. As mentioned before, WWA requires surrounding yourself with enemies, which is usually a bad idea. It's also a full round action, which makes it even more difficult to set up. As well, WWA is a decidely offensive related feat, whereas its hefty prereqs are all more defensive. For an offensive melee character, you'd get much more mileage out of power attack, cleave, and shock trooper. You don't have to place yourself in the midst of danger, and against mobs of low HD creatures your charging cleaving attack will probably do more damage overall than a WWA.
LordPendragon 07-21-06, 03:07 PM	And nobody's suggested Vexing Flanker and Adaptible Flanker yet. That's not good, especially since if this is an AoO heavy build then the prerequisite (Combat Reflexes) is already covered. Thos 2 feats together give you a +4 bonus on attack rolls when attack an enemy whose opposite side you also threaten. It'll also give your allies flanking bonuses on attacks, since the enemy counts as flanked.
Big_Mac 07-21-06, 03:07 PM	As mentioned before, WWA requires surrounding yourself with enemies, which is usually a bad idea. It's also a full round action, which makes it even more difficult to set up. As well, WWA is a decidely offensive related feat, whereas its hefty prereqs are all more defensive. For an offensive melee character, you'd get much more mileage out of power attack, cleave, and shock trooper. You don't have to place yourself in the midst of danger, and against mobs of low HD creatures your charging cleaving attack will probably do more damage overall than a WWA. I am going to respecfully disagree. At 6th level my current fighter wiped the board of 20 Sahguan. The party took care of 5 others and 5 lizard men. I was surround by never less than 3 and as many as 5. I only missed 1 and had none survive the one hit. Except the big one he took 2. I took 0 damage.
PhoenixInferno 07-21-06, 03:22 PM	If I found myself fighting 20 opponents about 3-4 HD below mine, then I might be wishing for WWA. Or I could let the spellcasters take care of it with a Fireball or a Evard's Black Tentacles.
Surreal 07-21-06, 04:26 PM	I am going to respecfully disagree. At 6th level my current fighter wiped the board of 20 Sahguan. The party took care of 5 others and 5 lizard men. I was surround by never less than 3 and as many as 5. I only missed 1 and had none survive the one hit. Except the big one he took 2. I took 0 damage. If you're consistently fighting mobs where each opponent can be dropped with a single hit, then WWA is alright. The chances of this happening however usually decrease as you level up, as monsters become more powerful and their hit points increase subtantially. But if your DM likes to give you plenty of fodder to smack around, then WWA by all means. It's not like straight fighters don't have the feats to spare anyways.