Boost my druids AC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Boost my druids AC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
StreLockKi
03-15-05, 03:14 PM I start my druid with
STR 5
DEX 6
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 23 (don’t ask)
CHA 10

@ 15 Level I want to be a +60AC Druid
Help me out. This is what I have so far
10
+3 DEX Legendary Ape
+6 Nat Armor Legendary Ape
+1 Insight Ion stone
=20 AC
+8 Armor Breacers of armor
+12 WIS Monks Belt ( +1 Monk 5ft lvl , +8 Wis modifier by leveling, +3 Periapt of Wis )
=40 AC
+5 Deflection Ring of protection
+3 DEX (ench) Gloves of DEX
=48 AC + Spells
+5 Nat Armor(ench) Barkskin
+4 Shield Spell Shield (from my sor)
=57 AC
warok
03-15-05, 04:07 PM get a defending weapon or two

not sure if you got a tomb of wis yet(you wis seems to say yes)

combat expertise feat, and superior expertise

fight defensively

highly unlikely but if you can get wild armor to combine with you monk's belt it will beat the bracers of armor (not many DMs allow this)

boots of speed will give haste for 10 rounds a day which gives another +1

also last i checked legendary apes only have +6 NA

have your summons trip and grapple to get virtual ac

i went to otto's ac thread to grab little tid-bits of ac boosting stuff
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=305263
Snarf
03-15-05, 04:20 PM Also, the Monk's Belt gives an insight bonus to AC, I don't think that'll stack with your Ioun Stone.

You could take levels of Nature's Warrior, to improve your natural AC bonus by up to +5. One good approach (after 15th) is Druid 16 / NW 4 to get +16 BAB.

I do believe that one standard way of attaining crazy AC is to get Dragon Wildshape (Draconomicon) and taking Shadow Dragon form. Might compromise your equipment though.

Oh yeah, I think there's a Tortoise Shell spell (Complete Divine maybe?) that grants a better enhancement to natural AC than Barkskin, at the cost of some mobility.
Saihtam
03-16-05, 07:52 AM Maybe you can buy a few beers for a burly dwarf ask him to stand in front of you.

See you at McBoll W-man :pint:
Ardras
03-16-05, 09:37 AM Get yourself an animated shiled. This way the shield loses two points of ac, but on the other hand you can just profit from the bonuses of a shield without actually having to wear one. This would net you about 6-10 more points of ac.
ksbsnowowl
03-16-05, 10:41 AM Get the Dragon Wildshape feat (Draconomicon) and take the form of a Shadow Dragon. Decent Dex (15-17) and +19 natural armor. You also gain total concealment in all but full daylight. And you are immune to level drain and similar effects.
Snarf
03-16-05, 04:38 PM Get yourself an animated shiled. This way the shield loses two points of ac, but on the other hand you can just profit from the bonuses of a shield without actually having to wear one. This would net you about 6-10 more points of ac.
...however, you still have the armor check penalty for wearing the shield, IIRC, so it should count as "wearing a shield" for purposes of the Monk ability. Otherwise every CO Monk and Ninja would be doing this.
Vorlir
03-16-05, 05:06 PM He's got a shield spell up anyway.
Saihtam
03-17-05, 08:48 AM I'm sorry W-man :
A monk has two AC-related abilities:
1 : Bonus to AC : every 5 levers or so, a monk gets +1 AC
2 : Wisdom mod to AC : A monk may add his WIS modifier to AC

a monk's belt gives a monks bonus to AC, not the Wis modifier to AC.

Happy St.Patricks day though. :dancin: :pint: :w00t:
Setanos
03-17-05, 09:23 AM I'm sorry W-man :
A monk has two AC-related abilities:
1 : Bonus to AC : every 5 levers or so, a monk gets +1 AC
2 : Wisdom mod to AC : A monk may add his WIS modifier to AC

Actually, thats not true. Per SRD:

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Belt, Monk’s: This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.
(Underlined for emphasis)

The belt gives the wearer, if not a monk, an ability that functions just like the ability "AC bonus" in the monks class features, at 5th level. The ability "AC bonus" is clearly defined as providing 2 benifits: Wisdom to AC, and +1 AC bonus per 5 levels.
StreLockKi
03-17-05, 09:55 AM :cheer: :rofl: :cheer: :bounce: :dancin: :ayyyy!: :ayyyy!: :ayyyy!: :ayyyy!: :cheer:

TNX fox explaining that Setanos
and Saihtam good for you the DM is always wright! ;)

(jaja de snullen verdedigen mij :P )
Planar Demon
03-17-05, 10:14 AM get yourself an amulet of natural armor + 5...
and the natural armor of the lengendary ape is only +6...
StreLockKi
03-17-05, 10:22 AM get yourself an amulet of natural armor + 5...

I already have a Periapt of Wis neck/neck
And I have the spell > does not stack
Saihtam
03-17-05, 10:45 AM Ok, a few remarks :
- a monkey with a belt, bracers, a ring and gloves, what next : cows in dresses and Puss in boots?
- Does Nat armor from spell or amulet stack with that of the ledgendary monkey-man?
- Don't you lose (temp) all items when you shapechange?

(I'm just being anoying now) :evillaugh :headexplo

Don't **** of a dwarf! Especialy when he's currently your DM W-man!!
Be aware, ... be very aware.
StreLockKi
03-17-05, 10:46 AM Ok, a few remarks :
cows in dresses and Puss in boots?

:rofl:
thorian
03-17-05, 02:45 PM Ok, a few remarks :
- Does Nat armor from spell or amulet stack with that of the ledgendary monkey-man?
- Don't you lose (temp) all items when you shapechange?
The Amulet of Natural Armor and the Barkskin spell both stack with the natural armor provided by the creature wildshaped into since they provide an enhancement bonus to natural armor, but the amulet and barkskin would not stack with each other.

You don't lose items when shapechanging if they fit your form.
Darken
03-17-05, 03:06 PM Owl's Insight, from Magic of Faerun, gives +1 enhancement to Wisdom per two caster levels. After level 13, it will give you better Wisdom bonus than a periapt of Wisdom; it'll provide a better AC from your Monk's Belt.

Wildshape into a creature with multiple arms and pick up a +5 defending weapon for each arm. IIRC the bonus to AC will stack from these weapons; and then you can pick up Improved Unarmed Strike feat to unarmed strike with other parts of your body as well, using the (Improved) Multiattack feat that almost all Druids already have.

Maybe dip into Deep Warden for Con bonus to AC, and wildshape into something with massive Constitution.
Snarf
03-17-05, 05:57 PM Actually, there's a horrible rules rape that may be possible along those lines, you can enchant a shield as a weapon (intended for bashing) separately from its defensive enchantments, which means it could be enchanted as +5 shield, +5 Defending (blammo +12 AC shield). Also, you could enchant armor spikes as +5 armor, +5 Defending (blammo +18 AC fullplate). Unless I'm forgetting something critical here.

I don't know if some rule fixes this, like needing to be using the item "in the offensive mode" to gain the benefits of such offensive enchantments (which aid defense)...but you can still carry a pair of +5 Defending daggers or whatever around all day.
Snarf
03-17-05, 06:01 PM Owl's Insight, from Magic of Faerun, gives +1 enhancement to Wisdom per two caster levels. After level 13, it will give you better Wisdom bonus than a periapt of Wisdom; it'll provide a better AC from your Monk's Belt.
I doubt that many DMs would allow that, since this spell was essentially replaced in 3.5 with the standard +4 stat version (non-variable to eliminate the "empower" tactic on the older +1d4+1 stat versions).
Planar Demon
03-17-05, 10:11 PM actually natural bonus all stack togheter if they don't come from the same source...
bakskin stacks with amulet of natural armor and they stack with the natural armor of the creature as well...

and in page 288 of the DMG 3.5 there is rules to make magical items in different slots, you can make the amulet of natural armor be a cloak of natural armor for the same price...

the saint template from exalted deeds add your wisdom modifier as an insight bonus to ac, which stacks with the monk's belt :D

of course you will need to spend 3 feats in exalted ones...
warok
03-17-05, 10:19 PM actually natural bonus all stack togheter if they don't come from the same source...
bakskin stacks with amulet of natural armor and they stack with the natural armor of the creature as well...

thats wrong
barkskin and amulets of natural armor OVERLAP, they both provide enhancement bonuses to natural armor, and enhancement bonuses never stack with each other

however each will stack with the creature's existing natural armor bonus, again not with each other.
Planar Demon
03-17-05, 10:39 PM sorry, you are right... I must be getting old...
ksbsnowowl
03-18-05, 05:26 PM I doubt that many DMs would allow that, since this spell was essentially replaced in 3.5 with the standard +4 stat version (non-variable to eliminate the "empower" tactic on the older +1d4+1 stat versions).Snarf, note that he's not talking about the second level Owl's Wisdom. Owl's Insight was an improved 'version' of the spell and was around fifth or sixth level, IIRC.
Vorlir
03-18-05, 06:28 PM in MOF its a level 5 Druid spell, duration 1 hour. Enhancement bonus equal to half your level.
Snarf
03-19-05, 02:26 AM Snarf, note that he's not talking about the second level Owl's Wisdom. Owl's Insight was an improved 'version' of the spell and was around fifth or sixth level, IIRC.
Aaaahhh that's what I get for posting at work :) Sorry about the mix-up. Seems like that spell is kinda dangerous, balance-wise, it means your spell DCs increase by 1 every 2 levels (assuming you persist it or whatever) as well as your AC if you have Wis to AC. Playing epic it would get sick, unless it caps at 20th or something.
Otto the Bugbear
03-19-05, 07:23 AM The problem with all the defending weapons, plus defending shield spikes, plus defending armor spikes has been laid out before.

You have to use the defending weapon as part of the attack to gain the AC bonus. Thus, a duelist with rapier in one hand and +5 defending dagger in the other can't actually use the AC boost unless he uses the dagger as part of the attack.

I don't remember if that's in the FAQ or where it was clarified, but I specifically remember that. Hence, the trick wasn't included in the maximum AC build.

Cheers

Otto :)
Snarf
03-19-05, 04:10 PM That's good to know, Otto. I myself would rule it this way regardless, as a DM. However, it's nice to know that somewhere out there, a legal justification exists.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StreLockKi 03-15-05, 03:14 PM	I start my druid with STR 5 DEX 6 CON 10 INT 10 WIS 23 (don’t ask) CHA 10 @ 15 Level I want to be a +60AC Druid Help me out. This is what I have so far 10 +3 DEX Legendary Ape +6 Nat Armor Legendary Ape +1 Insight Ion stone =20 AC +8 Armor Breacers of armor +12 WIS Monks Belt ( +1 Monk 5ft lvl , +8 Wis modifier by leveling, +3 Periapt of Wis ) =40 AC +5 Deflection Ring of protection +3 DEX (ench) Gloves of DEX =48 AC + Spells +5 Nat Armor(ench) Barkskin +4 Shield Spell Shield (from my sor) =57 AC
warok 03-15-05, 04:07 PM	get a defending weapon or two not sure if you got a tomb of wis yet(you wis seems to say yes) combat expertise feat, and superior expertise fight defensively highly unlikely but if you can get wild armor to combine with you monk's belt it will beat the bracers of armor (not many DMs allow this) boots of speed will give haste for 10 rounds a day which gives another +1 also last i checked legendary apes only have +6 NA have your summons trip and grapple to get virtual ac i went to otto's ac thread to grab little tid-bits of ac boosting stuff http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=305263
Snarf 03-15-05, 04:20 PM	Also, the Monk's Belt gives an insight bonus to AC, I don't think that'll stack with your Ioun Stone. You could take levels of Nature's Warrior, to improve your natural AC bonus by up to +5. One good approach (after 15th) is Druid 16 / NW 4 to get +16 BAB. I do believe that one standard way of attaining crazy AC is to get Dragon Wildshape (Draconomicon) and taking Shadow Dragon form. Might compromise your equipment though. Oh yeah, I think there's a Tortoise Shell spell (Complete Divine maybe?) that grants a better enhancement to natural AC than Barkskin, at the cost of some mobility.
Saihtam 03-16-05, 07:52 AM	Maybe you can buy a few beers for a burly dwarf ask him to stand in front of you. See you at McBoll W-man :pint:
Ardras 03-16-05, 09:37 AM	Get yourself an animated shiled. This way the shield loses two points of ac, but on the other hand you can just profit from the bonuses of a shield without actually having to wear one. This would net you about 6-10 more points of ac.
ksbsnowowl 03-16-05, 10:41 AM	Get the Dragon Wildshape feat (Draconomicon) and take the form of a Shadow Dragon. Decent Dex (15-17) and +19 natural armor. You also gain total concealment in all but full daylight. And you are immune to level drain and similar effects.
Snarf 03-16-05, 04:38 PM	Get yourself an animated shiled. This way the shield loses two points of ac, but on the other hand you can just profit from the bonuses of a shield without actually having to wear one. This would net you about 6-10 more points of ac. ...however, you still have the armor check penalty for wearing the shield, IIRC, so it should count as "wearing a shield" for purposes of the Monk ability. Otherwise every CO Monk and Ninja would be doing this.
Vorlir 03-16-05, 05:06 PM	He's got a shield spell up anyway.
Saihtam 03-17-05, 08:48 AM	I'm sorry W-man : A monk has two AC-related abilities: 1 : Bonus to AC : every 5 levers or so, a monk gets +1 AC 2 : Wisdom mod to AC : A monk may add his WIS modifier to AC a monk's belt gives a monks bonus to AC, not the Wis modifier to AC. Happy St.Patricks day though. :dancin: :pint: :w00t:
Setanos 03-17-05, 09:23 AM	I'm sorry W-man : A monk has two AC-related abilities: 1 : Bonus to AC : every 5 levers or so, a monk gets +1 AC 2 : Wisdom mod to AC : A monk may add his WIS modifier to AC Actually, thats not true. Per SRD: AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load. Belt, Monk’s: This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus. (Underlined for emphasis) The belt gives the wearer, if not a monk, an ability that functions just like the ability "AC bonus" in the monks class features, at 5th level. The ability "AC bonus" is clearly defined as providing 2 benifits: Wisdom to AC, and +1 AC bonus per 5 levels.
StreLockKi 03-17-05, 09:55 AM	:cheer: :rofl: :cheer: :bounce: :dancin: :ayyyy!: :ayyyy!: :ayyyy!: :ayyyy!: :cheer: TNX fox explaining that Setanos and Saihtam good for you the DM is always wright! ;) (jaja de snullen verdedigen mij :P )
Planar Demon 03-17-05, 10:14 AM	get yourself an amulet of natural armor + 5... and the natural armor of the lengendary ape is only +6...
StreLockKi 03-17-05, 10:22 AM	get yourself an amulet of natural armor + 5... I already have a Periapt of Wis neck/neck And I have the spell > does not stack
Saihtam 03-17-05, 10:45 AM	Ok, a few remarks : - a monkey with a belt, bracers, a ring and gloves, what next : cows in dresses and Puss in boots? - Does Nat armor from spell or amulet stack with that of the ledgendary monkey-man? - Don't you lose (temp) all items when you shapechange? (I'm just being anoying now) :evillaugh :headexplo Don't **** of a dwarf! Especialy when he's currently your DM W-man!! Be aware, ... be very aware.
StreLockKi 03-17-05, 10:46 AM	Ok, a few remarks : cows in dresses and Puss in boots? :rofl:
thorian 03-17-05, 02:45 PM	Ok, a few remarks : - Does Nat armor from spell or amulet stack with that of the ledgendary monkey-man? - Don't you lose (temp) all items when you shapechange? The Amulet of Natural Armor and the Barkskin spell both stack with the natural armor provided by the creature wildshaped into since they provide an enhancement bonus to natural armor, but the amulet and barkskin would not stack with each other. You don't lose items when shapechanging if they fit your form.
Darken 03-17-05, 03:06 PM	Owl's Insight, from Magic of Faerun, gives +1 enhancement to Wisdom per two caster levels. After level 13, it will give you better Wisdom bonus than a periapt of Wisdom; it'll provide a better AC from your Monk's Belt. Wildshape into a creature with multiple arms and pick up a +5 defending weapon for each arm. IIRC the bonus to AC will stack from these weapons; and then you can pick up Improved Unarmed Strike feat to unarmed strike with other parts of your body as well, using the (Improved) Multiattack feat that almost all Druids already have. Maybe dip into Deep Warden for Con bonus to AC, and wildshape into something with massive Constitution.
Snarf 03-17-05, 05:57 PM	Actually, there's a horrible rules rape that may be possible along those lines, you can enchant a shield as a weapon (intended for bashing) separately from its defensive enchantments, which means it could be enchanted as +5 shield, +5 Defending (blammo +12 AC shield). Also, you could enchant armor spikes as +5 armor, +5 Defending (blammo +18 AC fullplate). Unless I'm forgetting something critical here. I don't know if some rule fixes this, like needing to be using the item "in the offensive mode" to gain the benefits of such offensive enchantments (which aid defense)...but you can still carry a pair of +5 Defending daggers or whatever around all day.
Snarf 03-17-05, 06:01 PM	Owl's Insight, from Magic of Faerun, gives +1 enhancement to Wisdom per two caster levels. After level 13, it will give you better Wisdom bonus than a periapt of Wisdom; it'll provide a better AC from your Monk's Belt. I doubt that many DMs would allow that, since this spell was essentially replaced in 3.5 with the standard +4 stat version (non-variable to eliminate the "empower" tactic on the older +1d4+1 stat versions).
Planar Demon 03-17-05, 10:11 PM	actually natural bonus all stack togheter if they don't come from the same source... bakskin stacks with amulet of natural armor and they stack with the natural armor of the creature as well... and in page 288 of the DMG 3.5 there is rules to make magical items in different slots, you can make the amulet of natural armor be a cloak of natural armor for the same price... the saint template from exalted deeds add your wisdom modifier as an insight bonus to ac, which stacks with the monk's belt :D of course you will need to spend 3 feats in exalted ones...
warok 03-17-05, 10:19 PM	actually natural bonus all stack togheter if they don't come from the same source... bakskin stacks with amulet of natural armor and they stack with the natural armor of the creature as well... thats wrong barkskin and amulets of natural armor OVERLAP, they both provide enhancement bonuses to natural armor, and enhancement bonuses never stack with each other however each will stack with the creature's existing natural armor bonus, again not with each other.
Planar Demon 03-17-05, 10:39 PM	sorry, you are right... I must be getting old...
ksbsnowowl 03-18-05, 05:26 PM	I doubt that many DMs would allow that, since this spell was essentially replaced in 3.5 with the standard +4 stat version (non-variable to eliminate the "empower" tactic on the older +1d4+1 stat versions).Snarf, note that he's not talking about the second level Owl's Wisdom. Owl's Insight was an improved 'version' of the spell and was around fifth or sixth level, IIRC.
Vorlir 03-18-05, 06:28 PM	in MOF its a level 5 Druid spell, duration 1 hour. Enhancement bonus equal to half your level.
Snarf 03-19-05, 02:26 AM	Snarf, note that he's not talking about the second level Owl's Wisdom. Owl's Insight was an improved 'version' of the spell and was around fifth or sixth level, IIRC. Aaaahhh that's what I get for posting at work :) Sorry about the mix-up. Seems like that spell is kinda dangerous, balance-wise, it means your spell DCs increase by 1 every 2 levels (assuming you persist it or whatever) as well as your AC if you have Wis to AC. Playing epic it would get sick, unless it caps at 20th or something.
Otto the Bugbear 03-19-05, 07:23 AM	The problem with all the defending weapons, plus defending shield spikes, plus defending armor spikes has been laid out before. You have to use the defending weapon as part of the attack to gain the AC bonus. Thus, a duelist with rapier in one hand and +5 defending dagger in the other can't actually use the AC boost unless he uses the dagger as part of the attack. I don't remember if that's in the FAQ or where it was clarified, but I specifically remember that. Hence, the trick wasn't included in the maximum AC build. Cheers Otto :)
Snarf 03-19-05, 04:10 PM	That's good to know, Otto. I myself would rule it this way regardless, as a DM. However, it's nice to know that somewhere out there, a legal justification exists.