BOW&THROW [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

BOW&THROW [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ramhammer
11-06-05, 06:29 PM I'm working on a build for an archer/master thrower. But I have a question about the order of the bow initiate (OBI). Close combat shot, reads an OBI can attack with a ranged weapon in a theatened square and not provoke an AoO. Does this mean a thrown weapon too, and does it count as a flank? Also ranged precsion with a thrown weapon? Next can you use the master thrower thrown weapon trick (sneaky shot) with a bow? Sneaky shot reads; Just before making a ranged attack...use a move action , slight of hand opposed by opponets spot check, to denie opponet of dex bonus to ac for the attack. If I can get these answers I can show the build soon. Thanks
ramhammer
11-06-05, 09:08 PM wrong place, or no one knows?
White_Phoenix
11-07-05, 04:23 AM I'm working on a build for an archer/master thrower. But I have a question about the order of the bow initiate (OBI). Close combat shot, reads an OBI can attack with a ranged weapon in a theatened square and not provoke an AoO. Does this mean a thrown weapon too..

I don't have the book with me, but if it says you don't provoke an AoO with a ranged weapon and you use a ranged weapon then you don't provoke an AoO. Seems clear to me.

..and does it count as a flank?..

Not unless you have an ally on the other side of your opponent.

..Also ranged precsion with a thrown weapon?..

I don't have the book with me but most ranged precision attacks only work within 30 ft.

..Next can you use the master thrower thrown weapon trick (sneaky shot) with a bow? Sneaky shot reads; Just before making a ranged attack...use a move action , slight of hand opposed by opponets spot check, to denie opponet of dex bonus to ac for the attack. If I can get these answers I can show the build soon. Thanks

"Just before making a ranged attack" says it all. A bow is a ranged attack, so I would say yes. Even the trick is called sneaky shot an not sneaky throw.

Good luck with your build.
ksbsnowowl
11-07-05, 09:56 AM ..and does it count as a flank?..
Not unless you have an ally on the other side of your opponent.Actually, this still doesn't work even then. To be flanking you must be making a melee attack. Ergo, you cannot flank with your ranged attack; it's simply not possible.
solbergb
11-07-05, 12:36 PM Well..arrow mind lets you provide a flank.

But in general any archer who also does thrown weapons can provide a flank at will, just by filling his hand with some random weapon between volleys.

I don't see the point of OOTBI in this build, but that may be because I had some (incorrect) memory of master thrower fixing that up. Maybe I'm confusing it with whisperknife.
Lilt
11-07-05, 12:41 PM Well..arrow mind lets you provide a flank.
I think it lets you provide a flank but it's noteable that you still wouldn't gain benefits from flanking as you yourself are using a ranged weapon (even if it is at short range). This means no +2 to attack and no sneak attack.
ksbsnowowl
11-07-05, 01:12 PM I think it lets you provide a flank but it's noteable that you still wouldn't gain benefits from flanking as you yourself are using a ranged weapon (even if it is at short range). This means no +2 to attack and no sneak attack.I agree with this, but a week or two ago Otto provided a somewhat convoluted argument that Arrow Mind does make you have a melee attack, and thus can flank/sneak attack. According to his reasoning, the spell says 'you flank,' and the deffinition of flanking in the back of the PHB is 'making a melee attack....'

I don't agree with his interpretation, but just thought I'd point it out.
Timlagor
11-07-05, 01:50 PM You would have to check the class text on the special abilities to know if they apply to non-thrown or non-bow attacks. I don't have CW to hand.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ramhammer 11-06-05, 06:29 PM	I'm working on a build for an archer/master thrower. But I have a question about the order of the bow initiate (OBI). Close combat shot, reads an OBI can attack with a ranged weapon in a theatened square and not provoke an AoO. Does this mean a thrown weapon too, and does it count as a flank? Also ranged precsion with a thrown weapon? Next can you use the master thrower thrown weapon trick (sneaky shot) with a bow? Sneaky shot reads; Just before making a ranged attack...use a move action , slight of hand opposed by opponets spot check, to denie opponet of dex bonus to ac for the attack. If I can get these answers I can show the build soon. Thanks
ramhammer 11-06-05, 09:08 PM	wrong place, or no one knows?
White_Phoenix 11-07-05, 04:23 AM	I'm working on a build for an archer/master thrower. But I have a question about the order of the bow initiate (OBI). Close combat shot, reads an OBI can attack with a ranged weapon in a theatened square and not provoke an AoO. Does this mean a thrown weapon too.. I don't have the book with me, but if it says you don't provoke an AoO with a ranged weapon and you use a ranged weapon then you don't provoke an AoO. Seems clear to me. ..and does it count as a flank?.. Not unless you have an ally on the other side of your opponent. ..Also ranged precsion with a thrown weapon?.. I don't have the book with me but most ranged precision attacks only work within 30 ft. ..Next can you use the master thrower thrown weapon trick (sneaky shot) with a bow? Sneaky shot reads; Just before making a ranged attack...use a move action , slight of hand opposed by opponets spot check, to denie opponet of dex bonus to ac for the attack. If I can get these answers I can show the build soon. Thanks "Just before making a ranged attack" says it all. A bow is a ranged attack, so I would say yes. Even the trick is called sneaky shot an not sneaky throw. Good luck with your build.
ksbsnowowl 11-07-05, 09:56 AM	..and does it count as a flank?.. Not unless you have an ally on the other side of your opponent.Actually, this still doesn't work even then. To be flanking you must be making a melee attack. Ergo, you cannot flank with your ranged attack; it's simply not possible.
solbergb 11-07-05, 12:36 PM	Well..arrow mind lets you provide a flank. But in general any archer who also does thrown weapons can provide a flank at will, just by filling his hand with some random weapon between volleys. I don't see the point of OOTBI in this build, but that may be because I had some (incorrect) memory of master thrower fixing that up. Maybe I'm confusing it with whisperknife.
Lilt 11-07-05, 12:41 PM	Well..arrow mind lets you provide a flank. I think it lets you provide a flank but it's noteable that you still wouldn't gain benefits from flanking as you yourself are using a ranged weapon (even if it is at short range). This means no +2 to attack and no sneak attack.
ksbsnowowl 11-07-05, 01:12 PM	I think it lets you provide a flank but it's noteable that you still wouldn't gain benefits from flanking as you yourself are using a ranged weapon (even if it is at short range). This means no +2 to attack and no sneak attack.I agree with this, but a week or two ago Otto provided a somewhat convoluted argument that Arrow Mind does make you have a melee attack, and thus can flank/sneak attack. According to his reasoning, the spell says 'you flank,' and the deffinition of flanking in the back of the PHB is 'making a melee attack....' I don't agree with his interpretation, but just thought I'd point it out.
Timlagor 11-07-05, 01:50 PM	You would have to check the class text on the special abilities to know if they apply to non-thrown or non-bow attacks. I don't have CW to hand.