brainstorming and maximising my new wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

brainstorming and maximising my new wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hartz404
01-11-05, 10:30 AM Hi there,
I could need your help by planning my new (neutral or evil) sunelf-wizard (strictly speaking a cast-off person, by some roleplay-reason) , starting level 1. Maybe I should tell you first, what I wanted to do with him.

My main intention is a good ground controll and to be able to beat nearly everything in a one on one (especially to be able to battle the allmighty “ebil wizard of doom!!!11” and other spellcasters). This leads me to Evocation (lot of damage) and maybe Necromancy (the nasty “save or kill” things, not the armymancer-style) -> fighting role: something like mass controll / take out the enemy mage / bosskiller with balance point “take out the enemy mage / boss” more than the mass controll.
This leads to dropping Enchantment or Illusion, if any specialising is needed.

Another aim for me is to stay alive (who won’t that, too?), so my char should not only be a mighty lategame caster, I also want a powerful midlevel being. Someone who can, if he needs, survive on his own long enough.

And here we go..
All books may be allow (DM may take a look before he allows them, but principally he allows everything) State-Rolls gave me a 18, 17, 15, 10, 9, 12 – good enough I guess. With the Sunelf-boost, I could get a Ini 20 to start with.

To be flexible, there may be the / urPriest X/ Mystic Theurge X/ ArchmageX /XXX – route, I read about. But I read nowhere about the UrPriest. Where can I find him? What pre’s does he need? And can I go straight Wizard (5) to get him, or do I need Wizard (4) / Cleric (1)? This way, he could get away with a Wis 17

But than again, I read about the Mystic Theurge isn’t that powerful. Well.. I haven’t ever played one. So I’m very open for other class and level-suggestions. Feats would be nice, too.

The Char should be powerful indeed, as far as he can get by the build, ‘cause the DM warned us that it will be a very difficult and dangerous campaign. So I want max. out things, I’m planing

May you help me with that..? (I also hope my english is good enough for you to understand, what I mean ^^ )
Althalas
01-11-05, 11:10 AM Meh. Ur-priest is in Complete Divine and(the older version) in the Book Of Vile Darkness. You need a fort save of +3, so wizard 5 isn´t enough. However, since all clerical casting must be forsaken, you could consider some other base class which gives you a bonus to your fort save. on the other hand, the domains can be kinda nice. Some of my favorites are Celerity,Liberation and Fate (CD,CD and CW respectively).
Come to think of it, I´m not sure whether domains count as spellcasting ability(which you lose from ur-priest) so I may just be rambling here.

Althalas
Hartz404
01-12-05, 09:49 AM Domain Death would be better for the high-level necromancy spells. But without 5 levels of wizard I won't get the bonus feat. hm..
CompleteSatori
01-12-05, 11:26 AM Think about a Frozen Mage build, they are totally viable from early levels and get even more powerful past midlevel, and you can choose to be an Evoker specialist if you wish, this is one of the rare builds where you will not be hurt by specializing in Evocation spells, since nothing can be immune to them...

Example- Wizard 5/ Elemental Savant (Ice) 1/ Frozen Mage 4/ Cleric 1/ Winterhaunt 6/ Elemental Savant 2-3

The latter half of the level progression grants you d8 hit points and favored Fort and Will (Winterhaunt and Cleric), as well as excellent natural armor and the fact that you cast ALL elemental spells automatically as [Cold] descriptor spells, and cast all [Cold] spells at a natural +4 caster level (+6 vs Dispel and SR), which can easily be buffed up to +12 with a few items and feats.

I would suggest Illumian for Race, and will not go into too many details about Feat progression and whatnot unless you need me to.

EDIT- Did I mention that at 10th level you can affect even things that are IMMUNE to Cold with your spells (+1 spell slot), and at 16th you do it for free??
Hartz404
01-13-05, 07:11 AM Interesting. Sounds very.. cool, indeed.

A few Questions 'bout this build:
1. In which Books can I find the Element Savage, Frozen Mage and Winterhaunt? And what requirements do I need to enter?

2. 'Cause I don't know this PrCs, with which char-level do I reach Arcane Spells Level 9? Which Divine Level will I have at the end?

3. "automatically as [Cold] descriptor spells".. can I choose NOT to cast them as [cold] against cold immunity before reaching level 10?
CompleteSatori
01-13-05, 08:49 AM 1.) Elemental Savant is in the Complete Arcane, Winterhaunt and Frozen Mage are in the new Frostburn book.

2.) This build is only one level behind in Arcane Casting, so you get 9th level Arcane at 18th level, and you cast only as a 1st level Cleric.
For synergy purposes I would change your race over to Illumian, as it offers incredible powers to a mage, and this character specifically, as this build has 5 classes over level 2 (thus more Illumian Power Sigils), and the ability to use your
rebuke attempts to power metamagic feats at a lower cost than Divine Metamagic! (Plus with Illumian, you will cast your first level Cleric spells as a 6th level Cleric, and automatically cast as a full Arcane caster due to its +CL Power Sigil).

3.) Well thats the great thing about a wizzy, don't prepare all Cold blasting spells (but to answer the question, after 6th level ALL of your energy descriptor spells will be automatically [Cold] spells), get some good Necromancy and Enchantment spells for combat, and save your big AoE spells
for when you are comfortable that the creatures you are fighting don't have high Cold resist (its pretty rare at the lower to mid levels, and by 10th when you begin seeing lots of [Cold] subtype and resistant characters, you will have Piercing Cold).

As well, the Frostburn book has several [Cold] spells that have no save (one of them drains 3d6 DEX damage with no save), or have very useful effects for a [Cold] mage.
Hartz404
01-13-05, 03:05 PM How would this Build battle against outer spellcasters? I would really like to take out the enemy wizard / evil lich / random spellcaster of DOOM.

And which Power Sigils to take after the first two? Power Sigil skills?
PhaedrusXY
01-13-05, 04:24 PM CompleteSatori's build is nice. But even now, it's still hard to beat the old Wiz5/Incantrix10/ArchmageX (not sure I'd go Arch5 now). Being able to metamagic things for free is still quite powerful, even with all the new stuff that's came out since the Incantrix was first printed.

At the higher levels, caster vs. caster combat often comes down to two things: 1) Who gets initiative, and 2) who's best prepared for the fight. If neither party gets to prepare before hand, it comes down to who wins initiative, unless you have some extremely good defensive measures like a Rod of Absorption, good Contingencies in place, etc.
Angrillori
01-13-05, 05:04 PM which can easily be buffed up to +12 with a few items and feats.

Spell penetration and GSP I can see adding 4 to caster level checks for the purpose of defeating SR, what items are you thinking of in particular that add to Wiz caster level?

Thanks!
PhaedrusXY
01-13-05, 05:44 PM Spell penetration and GSP I can see adding 4 to caster level checks for the purpose of defeating SR, what items are you thinking of in particular that add to Wiz caster level?

Thanks!Well, orange ioun stones add +1 to caster level each. And even though I know the Karma Bead on the Strand of Prayer beads is probably only supposed to work for divine caster levels, if you read the description it doesn't actually say that. It only says that it adds to caster levels. It does take a divine caster to activate it, but you could emulate that with Use Magic Device. ;) the beads of karma and summons can be activated by any character capable of casting divine spells.and Wearer casts his spells at +4 caster level. Effect lasts 10 minutes.I'm just going on what the SRD says here, as I don't own the 3.5 DMG.

The Create Magic Tattoo spell from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting can be used to add +1 to caster level, if you're already a 13th level caster. And I have no idea how the description of the Ankh of Acenscion is worded. If it is similiar to the Karma Bead, you might be able to use it, also.
Bane
01-13-05, 07:34 PM Bard 7/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8

No levels of Wizard, but it gets 9th level Arcane and Divine spells, and that's never a bad thing. The bad side? The most laid-back DM I know as far as power levels go threw this out of our campaign, and threatened to use it against us if we ever brought it up again. Like a fool, I said, "No problem, it's got low hit points." Guess what our next BBEG was? TPK, after he started hitting us with implosion. He knew we were coming, of course, and had some major Buffs up. I honestly thought we had him when the Order of the Bow Initiate used Multishot at him with his +3 Holy Axiomatic Flaming Frost Shocking Bow with Arrows of Death. No one noticed the Wind Wall before that :weep:
Hartz404
01-14-05, 09:16 PM Naaa, either MT or FM.. I think I will try both in different campaigns.

I'd also like your opinions about the feets for this two classes (FM Illumian, MT sunelf.. no regional-feats)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hartz404 01-11-05, 10:30 AM	Hi there, I could need your help by planning my new (neutral or evil) sunelf-wizard (strictly speaking a cast-off person, by some roleplay-reason) , starting level 1. Maybe I should tell you first, what I wanted to do with him. My main intention is a good ground controll and to be able to beat nearly everything in a one on one (especially to be able to battle the allmighty “ebil wizard of doom!!!11” and other spellcasters). This leads me to Evocation (lot of damage) and maybe Necromancy (the nasty “save or kill” things, not the armymancer-style) -> fighting role: something like mass controll / take out the enemy mage / bosskiller with balance point “take out the enemy mage / boss” more than the mass controll. This leads to dropping Enchantment or Illusion, if any specialising is needed. Another aim for me is to stay alive (who won’t that, too?), so my char should not only be a mighty lategame caster, I also want a powerful midlevel being. Someone who can, if he needs, survive on his own long enough. And here we go.. All books may be allow (DM may take a look before he allows them, but principally he allows everything) State-Rolls gave me a 18, 17, 15, 10, 9, 12 – good enough I guess. With the Sunelf-boost, I could get a Ini 20 to start with. To be flexible, there may be the / urPriest X/ Mystic Theurge X/ ArchmageX /XXX – route, I read about. But I read nowhere about the UrPriest. Where can I find him? What pre’s does he need? And can I go straight Wizard (5) to get him, or do I need Wizard (4) / Cleric (1)? This way, he could get away with a Wis 17 But than again, I read about the Mystic Theurge isn’t that powerful. Well.. I haven’t ever played one. So I’m very open for other class and level-suggestions. Feats would be nice, too. The Char should be powerful indeed, as far as he can get by the build, ‘cause the DM warned us that it will be a very difficult and dangerous campaign. So I want max. out things, I’m planing May you help me with that..? (I also hope my english is good enough for you to understand, what I mean ^^ )
Althalas 01-11-05, 11:10 AM	Meh. Ur-priest is in Complete Divine and(the older version) in the Book Of Vile Darkness. You need a fort save of +3, so wizard 5 isn´t enough. However, since all clerical casting must be forsaken, you could consider some other base class which gives you a bonus to your fort save. on the other hand, the domains can be kinda nice. Some of my favorites are Celerity,Liberation and Fate (CD,CD and CW respectively). Come to think of it, I´m not sure whether domains count as spellcasting ability(which you lose from ur-priest) so I may just be rambling here. Althalas
Hartz404 01-12-05, 09:49 AM	Domain Death would be better for the high-level necromancy spells. But without 5 levels of wizard I won't get the bonus feat. hm..
CompleteSatori 01-12-05, 11:26 AM	Think about a Frozen Mage build, they are totally viable from early levels and get even more powerful past midlevel, and you can choose to be an Evoker specialist if you wish, this is one of the rare builds where you will not be hurt by specializing in Evocation spells, since nothing can be immune to them... Example- Wizard 5/ Elemental Savant (Ice) 1/ Frozen Mage 4/ Cleric 1/ Winterhaunt 6/ Elemental Savant 2-3 The latter half of the level progression grants you d8 hit points and favored Fort and Will (Winterhaunt and Cleric), as well as excellent natural armor and the fact that you cast ALL elemental spells automatically as [Cold] descriptor spells, and cast all [Cold] spells at a natural +4 caster level (+6 vs Dispel and SR), which can easily be buffed up to +12 with a few items and feats. I would suggest Illumian for Race, and will not go into too many details about Feat progression and whatnot unless you need me to. EDIT- Did I mention that at 10th level you can affect even things that are IMMUNE to Cold with your spells (+1 spell slot), and at 16th you do it for free??
Hartz404 01-13-05, 07:11 AM	Interesting. Sounds very.. cool, indeed. A few Questions 'bout this build: 1. In which Books can I find the Element Savage, Frozen Mage and Winterhaunt? And what requirements do I need to enter? 2. 'Cause I don't know this PrCs, with which char-level do I reach Arcane Spells Level 9? Which Divine Level will I have at the end? 3. "automatically as [Cold] descriptor spells".. can I choose NOT to cast them as [cold] against cold immunity before reaching level 10?
CompleteSatori 01-13-05, 08:49 AM	1.) Elemental Savant is in the Complete Arcane, Winterhaunt and Frozen Mage are in the new Frostburn book. 2.) This build is only one level behind in Arcane Casting, so you get 9th level Arcane at 18th level, and you cast only as a 1st level Cleric. For synergy purposes I would change your race over to Illumian, as it offers incredible powers to a mage, and this character specifically, as this build has 5 classes over level 2 (thus more Illumian Power Sigils), and the ability to use your rebuke attempts to power metamagic feats at a lower cost than Divine Metamagic! (Plus with Illumian, you will cast your first level Cleric spells as a 6th level Cleric, and automatically cast as a full Arcane caster due to its +CL Power Sigil). 3.) Well thats the great thing about a wizzy, don't prepare all Cold blasting spells (but to answer the question, after 6th level ALL of your energy descriptor spells will be automatically [Cold] spells), get some good Necromancy and Enchantment spells for combat, and save your big AoE spells for when you are comfortable that the creatures you are fighting don't have high Cold resist (its pretty rare at the lower to mid levels, and by 10th when you begin seeing lots of [Cold] subtype and resistant characters, you will have Piercing Cold). As well, the Frostburn book has several [Cold] spells that have no save (one of them drains 3d6 DEX damage with no save), or have very useful effects for a [Cold] mage.
Hartz404 01-13-05, 03:05 PM	How would this Build battle against outer spellcasters? I would really like to take out the enemy wizard / evil lich / random spellcaster of DOOM. And which Power Sigils to take after the first two? Power Sigil skills?
PhaedrusXY 01-13-05, 04:24 PM	CompleteSatori's build is nice. But even now, it's still hard to beat the old Wiz5/Incantrix10/ArchmageX (not sure I'd go Arch5 now). Being able to metamagic things for free is still quite powerful, even with all the new stuff that's came out since the Incantrix was first printed. At the higher levels, caster vs. caster combat often comes down to two things: 1) Who gets initiative, and 2) who's best prepared for the fight. If neither party gets to prepare before hand, it comes down to who wins initiative, unless you have some extremely good defensive measures like a Rod of Absorption, good Contingencies in place, etc.
Angrillori 01-13-05, 05:04 PM	which can easily be buffed up to +12 with a few items and feats. Spell penetration and GSP I can see adding 4 to caster level checks for the purpose of defeating SR, what items are you thinking of in particular that add to Wiz caster level? Thanks!
PhaedrusXY 01-13-05, 05:44 PM	Spell penetration and GSP I can see adding 4 to caster level checks for the purpose of defeating SR, what items are you thinking of in particular that add to Wiz caster level? Thanks!Well, orange ioun stones add +1 to caster level each. And even though I know the Karma Bead on the Strand of Prayer beads is probably only supposed to work for divine caster levels, if you read the description it doesn't actually say that. It only says that it adds to caster levels. It does take a divine caster to activate it, but you could emulate that with Use Magic Device. ;) the beads of karma and summons can be activated by any character capable of casting divine spells.and Wearer casts his spells at +4 caster level. Effect lasts 10 minutes.I'm just going on what the SRD says here, as I don't own the 3.5 DMG. The Create Magic Tattoo spell from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting can be used to add +1 to caster level, if you're already a 13th level caster. And I have no idea how the description of the Ankh of Acenscion is worded. If it is similiar to the Karma Bead, you might be able to use it, also.
Bane 01-13-05, 07:34 PM	Bard 7/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8 No levels of Wizard, but it gets 9th level Arcane and Divine spells, and that's never a bad thing. The bad side? The most laid-back DM I know as far as power levels go threw this out of our campaign, and threatened to use it against us if we ever brought it up again. Like a fool, I said, "No problem, it's got low hit points." Guess what our next BBEG was? TPK, after he started hitting us with implosion. He knew we were coming, of course, and had some major Buffs up. I honestly thought we had him when the Order of the Bow Initiate used Multishot at him with his +3 Holy Axiomatic Flaming Frost Shocking Bow with Arrows of Death. No one noticed the Wind Wall before that :weep:
Hartz404 01-14-05, 09:16 PM	Naaa, either MT or FM.. I think I will try both in different campaigns. I'd also like your opinions about the feets for this two classes (FM Illumian, MT sunelf.. no regional-feats)