Brawler build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Brawler build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NPCRedshirt
08-30-06, 10:14 AM Hi everyone. New poster here.

I've read the stickies and the FAQ but don't see what I'm looking for, so I'm asking for a few pointers.

I am trying to create a PC based on an old 1/2 ogre fighter I used to play in the 80s. He was specialized in, well, nothing. He used whatever was at hand for a weapon (table, beer mug, dead NPC, etc.). Back in 2E one could get away with this because such massive amounts of damage weren't so readily available as they are in 3.X and all one needed was "a magic weapon" for what qualified as DR back then.

Lately I have been watching Angel (the series) and noticed that they just grab whatever is lying around and go beat on stuff with it, also. So I am inspired to create something like this for our next home group.

Could someone direct me to where I can find information on this type of character? I want to build this myself but have no idea where to start, so I don't need full builds (unless there are threads for this and someone just wants to post a link). What I really need are suggestions from people that know the books better than I do. Like "try this combo," or "these feats work well together" type of suggestions. I have access to many books and will buy others for this if needed.

A friend of mine (who will be at the table) told me a PC like this won't survive long b/c he won't be able to do enough damage at mid to higher levels, but then I think it can be done since this guy will have all weapon proficiencies, and well my friend doesn't read this board and know what you guys are capable of. I've seen Pun-Pun . . . ;)

Here is the relevant information:

32 point buy -- want to focus on the physical stats but not have an INT of 6 either, so the 16, 14, 14, 12, 12, 8 seems like a good set of stats. Modifiable, of course depending on what's needed.

Monk should be included since he's a brawler, and I can see 2 levels of fighter for the feats. After that I'm clueless as to how to make this type of char. I'd go monk/barbarian were it not for alignment issues (and that sucks - is there are way around that other than "I uh just changed alignments")

Any suggestions? Almost every book is available outside of Eberron. I even have most Dragon issues. I just ordered the new ToB and can get anything else I don't already have.

Help? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: I should add that the character does not have to be 1/2 ogre. I was actually thinking human for extra feats. Whatever works best.
Save-vs-DM
08-30-06, 10:31 AM Welcome to the boards!

First of all, this can be a rather fun build! Information on the new Half-Orge can be found on page 97 of Races of Destiny. They get +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha. Giving you a respectable 22, 12, 16, 10, 12, 6 for abilities with the set you posted. Not a chess champion, but not too dumb, either. Unfortunately, Half-Orges are +2 LA, which hurts. They are large, though.

Another race option might be Half-Giant. They get powerful build, which gives them most of the benefits of being large, but few of the penalties (mainly they can use large weapons, but they don't have reach). Half-Giants are in the Expanded Psionics Handbook or the psionics section of the SRD. They get +2 Str, -2 Dex, and +2 Con, plus some nifty psionic abilities. They're only +1 LA, which is great if you play with teh LA buyoff found in Unearthed Arcana.

Finally, you could look at Goliaths, which are found in Races of Stone. They are medium sized with powerful build as well. They're also +1 LA, but have +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Goliath would be a decent choice.

If you can play with the LA buy off rules (you can find them here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm ), then Half-Ogre becomes very attractive.

As for classes, I point you towards page 27 of the Complete Warrior, to the Drunken Master prestige class. They get a class feature called Improvised Weapons, which lets you do just what you want. It keeps getting better with levels, too! This sounds exactly what you want.

As for abilities: 22, 13 (needed for dodge), 14, 10, 12, 6 should work well enough.

I'd go something like Monk 5/Drunken Master 10/Monk 5 or Monk 4/Fighter 1/Drunken Master 10/Fighter 3/Monk 2. If you have access to Unearthed Arcana, the Cobra Strike variant monk on page 52 will net you Dodge as a bonus feat.

Alternatively, if you're not sold on natural weapons, a half-giant or goliath reaping mauler could be an excellent grappler expert. (reaping mauler is also found in Complete Warrior).

Hope this helps!

Save vs DM
Kurama Youko
08-30-06, 11:26 AM Can you use the Dragon Compendium?

I ask because in the book there is a new melee class known as the Battle Dancer (I think) it gets Full BAB and Unarmed Strike like a monk but rather than focus on Wis it focuses on Cha, it gets alot of movement bonuses (+30 Feet total) but doesnt get Flurry, or Evasion. It gets dances as you gain more levels and increase your tumble ranks. These dances are manuvers that you can do as many times per day as you like so long as you succeed on the tumble check, they get special strikes that allow them to over come DR as well, ones that you have the decision of taking unlike the monk who is straight jacked into his ki strikes. The Dance Manuvers are pretty decent, the Leaping Tiger one is great if you optimize it with Charge based feats and so on, it basically lets you make a full around attack after any charge. Shock Trooper is almost a must here, you also get a dance manuver that allows you to tumble up to your full speed without penalty. Eventually they even get the ability to fly at a speed equal to their current speed with average manuverability. They get 3 other dance manuvers as well but the last one is by far the most interesting, a manuver than can be done with a simple DC 35 Tumble check at 20th lv that will add to 2d6 damage to all your attacks against a specified foe and whenever you threat to crit it's automatically successful. Hazzah!

I would also like to point out that though this class isnt proficient with armor and adds its cha to ac and gains a dodge bonus like monks do. I would highly recommend taking a level of whatever grants armor proficiency seeing as how this class unlike the monk doesnt lose all of its special features when wearing armor, it only loses the AC and Cha to AC bonuses. Everything else stays, and since Cha doesnt influence any of the other class features, I dont see the problem, also it has any Chaotic as the alignment requirement meaning its good for Barbarian Rage multiclass levels as well. Maybe a Battle Dancer 8/Barbarian 2/Frenzied Berserker 8 or 9 or something depending the race you take.
NPCRedshirt
08-30-06, 11:48 AM Thanks for the reply. I didn't even think of Drunken Master but that's a good fit. I need to work in a better balance with actual weapons though so I can overcome DR when it matters, since I won't have huge power attack or big damage bonuses to compensate. I need a guy who can also pick up the big axe and use it effectively, so more of a balance between fighter type levels and monk. Maybe Monk6, Ftr2, DrunkenX, some other martial prestige class or maybe even more fighter levels if I need to build this from scratch, so to speak.

I was thinking more of an improvised weapon type guy and not a grappler build as I found some of those. Grapplers grab onto something/one and then stand there for several rounds. I want someone to get in there and mix it up a bit more. :)

The Savage Species half ogre is the same setup but only +1 LA IIRC - that's what I was thinking of, or human. Goliath looks cool too.

Welcome to the boards!

First of all, this can be a rather fun build! Information on the new Half-Orge can be found on page 97 of Races of Destiny. They get +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha. Giving you a respectable 22, 12, 16, 10, 12, 6 for abilities with the set you posted. Not a chess champion, but not too dumb, either. Unfortunately, Half-Orges are +2 LA, which hurts. They are large, though.

Another race option might be Half-Giant. They get powerful build, which gives them most of the benefits of being large, but few of the penalties (mainly they can use large weapons, but they don't have reach). Half-Giants are in the Expanded Psionics Handbook or the psionics section of the SRD. They get +2 Str, -2 Dex, and +2 Con, plus some nifty psionic abilities. They're only +1 LA, which is great if you play with teh LA buyoff found in Unearthed Arcana.

Finally, you could look at Goliaths, which are found in Races of Stone. They are medium sized with powerful build as well. They're also +1 LA, but have +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Goliath would be a decent choice.

If you can play with the LA buy off rules (you can find them here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm ), then Half-Ogre becomes very attractive.

As for classes, I point you towards page 27 of the Complete Warrior, to the Drunken Master prestige class. They get a class feature called Improvised Weapons, which lets you do just what you want. It keeps getting better with levels, too! This sounds exactly what you want.

As for abilities: 22, 13 (needed for dodge), 14, 10, 12, 6 should work well enough.

I'd go something like Monk 5/Drunken Master 10/Monk 5 or Monk 4/Fighter 1/Drunken Master 10/Fighter 3/Monk 2. If you have access to Unearthed Arcana, the Cobra Strike variant monk on page 52 will net you Dodge as a bonus feat.

Alternatively, if you're not sold on natural weapons, a half-giant or goliath reaping mauler could be an excellent grappler expert. (reaping mauler is also found in Complete Warrior).

Hope this helps!

Save vs DM
NPCRedshirt
08-30-06, 11:49 AM I don't have it but I can get it and use it. Would this work with weapons too? I don't have the book (yet) to look at.

Can you use the Dragon Compendium?

I ask because in the book there is a new melee class known as the Battle Dancer (I think) it gets Full BAB and Unarmed Strike like a monk but rather than focus on Wis it focuses on Cha, it gets alot of movement bonuses (+30 Feet total) but doesnt get Flurry, or Evasion. It gets dances as you gain more levels and increase your tumble ranks. These dances are manuvers that you can do as many times per day as you like so long as you succeed on the tumble check, they get special strikes that allow them to over come DR as well, ones that you have the decision of taking unlike the monk who is straight jacked into his ki strikes. The Dance Manuvers are pretty decent, the Leaping Tiger one is great if you optimize it with Charge based feats and so on, it basically lets you make a full around attack after any charge. Shock Trooper is almost a must here, you also get a dance manuver that allows you to tumble up to your full speed without penalty. Eventually they even get the ability to fly at a speed equal to their current speed with average manuverability. They get 3 other dance manuvers as well but the last one is by far the most interesting, a manuver than can be done with a simple DC 35 Tumble check at 20th lv that will add to 2d6 damage to all your attacks against a specified foe and whenever you threat to crit it's automatically successful. Hazzah!

I would also like to point out that though this class isnt proficient with armor and adds its cha to ac and gains a dodge bonus like monks do. I would highly recommend taking a level of whatever grants armor proficiency seeing as how this class unlike the monk doesnt lose all of its special features when wearing armor, it only loses the AC and Cha to AC bonuses. Everything else stays, and since Cha doesnt influence any of the other class features, I dont see the problem, also it has any Chaotic as the alignment requirement meaning its good for Barbarian Rage multiclass levels as well. Maybe a Battle Dancer 8/Barbarian 2/Frenzied Berserker 8 or 9 or something depending the race you take.
ChristopherGroves
08-30-06, 11:51 AM Well, there are feats and such that allow your various "weapons" to be treated as magic, adamantine, whatever right? Vow of Poverty leaps to mind ... that doesn't really work though as you'd have to keep asking people for money to get your booze to do drunken master with ;-)
NPCRedshirt
08-30-06, 12:32 PM Maybe if I took battle dancer I could perform for my beer.

Well, there are feats and such that allow your various "weapons" to be treated as magic, adamantine, whatever right? Vow of Poverty leaps to mind ... that doesn't really work though as you'd have to keep asking people for money to get your booze to do drunken master with ;-)
Save-vs-DM
08-30-06, 12:40 PM Maybe if I took battle dancer I could perform for my beer.

Best. Workaround. Ever.

Save vs DM
WombleHunter
08-30-06, 01:01 PM With the Tome of Battle, you could pick up Superior Unarmed Strike instead of Monk levels. It requires Improved Unarmed Strike, and scales up your unarmed damage from 1d4 to 2d6 at 16th level, IIRC. Then you could take Barbarian levels with no worries.
duhtroll
08-31-06, 09:34 AM This . . .

has inspired me. I will be back soon with an idea. ;)
WombleHunter
08-31-06, 10:08 AM Throw in Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike)! Monk? Who needs Monk?
ChristopherGroves
08-31-06, 10:08 AM Any idea what level you're starting and likely progressing to?

Barbarian 2 ('cause he gets mad sometimes)
Ranger 2 ('cause sometimes he needs to live off the land, pick through trash, etc.)
Fighter 2 ('cause he did have formal training at one point)
Monk 2 ('cause you need tumble, evasion, etc.)

Of course, this delays entry into the PrC a bit.

Meat-wise you get +7 BAB, 2 fighter feats, fast movement, uncanny dodge, two weapon fighting, track, a mess of skills, a favored enemy, flurry of blows, evasion (which does stack w/ two weapon).

Drop Ranger if you want to get into the PrC quicker. If you want to get in at 6th level you need to drop a level of fighter or barbarian.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NPCRedshirt 08-30-06, 10:14 AM	Hi everyone. New poster here. I've read the stickies and the FAQ but don't see what I'm looking for, so I'm asking for a few pointers. I am trying to create a PC based on an old 1/2 ogre fighter I used to play in the 80s. He was specialized in, well, nothing. He used whatever was at hand for a weapon (table, beer mug, dead NPC, etc.). Back in 2E one could get away with this because such massive amounts of damage weren't so readily available as they are in 3.X and all one needed was "a magic weapon" for what qualified as DR back then. Lately I have been watching Angel (the series) and noticed that they just grab whatever is lying around and go beat on stuff with it, also. So I am inspired to create something like this for our next home group. Could someone direct me to where I can find information on this type of character? I want to build this myself but have no idea where to start, so I don't need full builds (unless there are threads for this and someone just wants to post a link). What I really need are suggestions from people that know the books better than I do. Like "try this combo," or "these feats work well together" type of suggestions. I have access to many books and will buy others for this if needed. A friend of mine (who will be at the table) told me a PC like this won't survive long b/c he won't be able to do enough damage at mid to higher levels, but then I think it can be done since this guy will have all weapon proficiencies, and well my friend doesn't read this board and know what you guys are capable of. I've seen Pun-Pun . . . ;) Here is the relevant information: 32 point buy -- want to focus on the physical stats but not have an INT of 6 either, so the 16, 14, 14, 12, 12, 8 seems like a good set of stats. Modifiable, of course depending on what's needed. Monk should be included since he's a brawler, and I can see 2 levels of fighter for the feats. After that I'm clueless as to how to make this type of char. I'd go monk/barbarian were it not for alignment issues (and that sucks - is there are way around that other than "I uh just changed alignments") Any suggestions? Almost every book is available outside of Eberron. I even have most Dragon issues. I just ordered the new ToB and can get anything else I don't already have. Help? Thanks in advance. EDIT: I should add that the character does not have to be 1/2 ogre. I was actually thinking human for extra feats. Whatever works best.
Save-vs-DM 08-30-06, 10:31 AM	Welcome to the boards! First of all, this can be a rather fun build! Information on the new Half-Orge can be found on page 97 of Races of Destiny. They get +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha. Giving you a respectable 22, 12, 16, 10, 12, 6 for abilities with the set you posted. Not a chess champion, but not too dumb, either. Unfortunately, Half-Orges are +2 LA, which hurts. They are large, though. Another race option might be Half-Giant. They get powerful build, which gives them most of the benefits of being large, but few of the penalties (mainly they can use large weapons, but they don't have reach). Half-Giants are in the Expanded Psionics Handbook or the psionics section of the SRD. They get +2 Str, -2 Dex, and +2 Con, plus some nifty psionic abilities. They're only +1 LA, which is great if you play with teh LA buyoff found in Unearthed Arcana. Finally, you could look at Goliaths, which are found in Races of Stone. They are medium sized with powerful build as well. They're also +1 LA, but have +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Goliath would be a decent choice. If you can play with the LA buy off rules (you can find them here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm ), then Half-Ogre becomes very attractive. As for classes, I point you towards page 27 of the Complete Warrior, to the Drunken Master prestige class. They get a class feature called Improvised Weapons, which lets you do just what you want. It keeps getting better with levels, too! This sounds exactly what you want. As for abilities: 22, 13 (needed for dodge), 14, 10, 12, 6 should work well enough. I'd go something like Monk 5/Drunken Master 10/Monk 5 or Monk 4/Fighter 1/Drunken Master 10/Fighter 3/Monk 2. If you have access to Unearthed Arcana, the Cobra Strike variant monk on page 52 will net you Dodge as a bonus feat. Alternatively, if you're not sold on natural weapons, a half-giant or goliath reaping mauler could be an excellent grappler expert. (reaping mauler is also found in Complete Warrior). Hope this helps! Save vs DM
Kurama Youko 08-30-06, 11:26 AM	Can you use the Dragon Compendium? I ask because in the book there is a new melee class known as the Battle Dancer (I think) it gets Full BAB and Unarmed Strike like a monk but rather than focus on Wis it focuses on Cha, it gets alot of movement bonuses (+30 Feet total) but doesnt get Flurry, or Evasion. It gets dances as you gain more levels and increase your tumble ranks. These dances are manuvers that you can do as many times per day as you like so long as you succeed on the tumble check, they get special strikes that allow them to over come DR as well, ones that you have the decision of taking unlike the monk who is straight jacked into his ki strikes. The Dance Manuvers are pretty decent, the Leaping Tiger one is great if you optimize it with Charge based feats and so on, it basically lets you make a full around attack after any charge. Shock Trooper is almost a must here, you also get a dance manuver that allows you to tumble up to your full speed without penalty. Eventually they even get the ability to fly at a speed equal to their current speed with average manuverability. They get 3 other dance manuvers as well but the last one is by far the most interesting, a manuver than can be done with a simple DC 35 Tumble check at 20th lv that will add to 2d6 damage to all your attacks against a specified foe and whenever you threat to crit it's automatically successful. Hazzah! I would also like to point out that though this class isnt proficient with armor and adds its cha to ac and gains a dodge bonus like monks do. I would highly recommend taking a level of whatever grants armor proficiency seeing as how this class unlike the monk doesnt lose all of its special features when wearing armor, it only loses the AC and Cha to AC bonuses. Everything else stays, and since Cha doesnt influence any of the other class features, I dont see the problem, also it has any Chaotic as the alignment requirement meaning its good for Barbarian Rage multiclass levels as well. Maybe a Battle Dancer 8/Barbarian 2/Frenzied Berserker 8 or 9 or something depending the race you take.
NPCRedshirt 08-30-06, 11:48 AM	Thanks for the reply. I didn't even think of Drunken Master but that's a good fit. I need to work in a better balance with actual weapons though so I can overcome DR when it matters, since I won't have huge power attack or big damage bonuses to compensate. I need a guy who can also pick up the big axe and use it effectively, so more of a balance between fighter type levels and monk. Maybe Monk6, Ftr2, DrunkenX, some other martial prestige class or maybe even more fighter levels if I need to build this from scratch, so to speak. I was thinking more of an improvised weapon type guy and not a grappler build as I found some of those. Grapplers grab onto something/one and then stand there for several rounds. I want someone to get in there and mix it up a bit more. :) The Savage Species half ogre is the same setup but only +1 LA IIRC - that's what I was thinking of, or human. Goliath looks cool too. Welcome to the boards! First of all, this can be a rather fun build! Information on the new Half-Orge can be found on page 97 of Races of Destiny. They get +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha. Giving you a respectable 22, 12, 16, 10, 12, 6 for abilities with the set you posted. Not a chess champion, but not too dumb, either. Unfortunately, Half-Orges are +2 LA, which hurts. They are large, though. Another race option might be Half-Giant. They get powerful build, which gives them most of the benefits of being large, but few of the penalties (mainly they can use large weapons, but they don't have reach). Half-Giants are in the Expanded Psionics Handbook or the psionics section of the SRD. They get +2 Str, -2 Dex, and +2 Con, plus some nifty psionic abilities. They're only +1 LA, which is great if you play with teh LA buyoff found in Unearthed Arcana. Finally, you could look at Goliaths, which are found in Races of Stone. They are medium sized with powerful build as well. They're also +1 LA, but have +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Goliath would be a decent choice. If you can play with the LA buy off rules (you can find them here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm ), then Half-Ogre becomes very attractive. As for classes, I point you towards page 27 of the Complete Warrior, to the Drunken Master prestige class. They get a class feature called Improvised Weapons, which lets you do just what you want. It keeps getting better with levels, too! This sounds exactly what you want. As for abilities: 22, 13 (needed for dodge), 14, 10, 12, 6 should work well enough. I'd go something like Monk 5/Drunken Master 10/Monk 5 or Monk 4/Fighter 1/Drunken Master 10/Fighter 3/Monk 2. If you have access to Unearthed Arcana, the Cobra Strike variant monk on page 52 will net you Dodge as a bonus feat. Alternatively, if you're not sold on natural weapons, a half-giant or goliath reaping mauler could be an excellent grappler expert. (reaping mauler is also found in Complete Warrior). Hope this helps! Save vs DM
NPCRedshirt 08-30-06, 11:49 AM	I don't have it but I can get it and use it. Would this work with weapons too? I don't have the book (yet) to look at. Can you use the Dragon Compendium? I ask because in the book there is a new melee class known as the Battle Dancer (I think) it gets Full BAB and Unarmed Strike like a monk but rather than focus on Wis it focuses on Cha, it gets alot of movement bonuses (+30 Feet total) but doesnt get Flurry, or Evasion. It gets dances as you gain more levels and increase your tumble ranks. These dances are manuvers that you can do as many times per day as you like so long as you succeed on the tumble check, they get special strikes that allow them to over come DR as well, ones that you have the decision of taking unlike the monk who is straight jacked into his ki strikes. The Dance Manuvers are pretty decent, the Leaping Tiger one is great if you optimize it with Charge based feats and so on, it basically lets you make a full around attack after any charge. Shock Trooper is almost a must here, you also get a dance manuver that allows you to tumble up to your full speed without penalty. Eventually they even get the ability to fly at a speed equal to their current speed with average manuverability. They get 3 other dance manuvers as well but the last one is by far the most interesting, a manuver than can be done with a simple DC 35 Tumble check at 20th lv that will add to 2d6 damage to all your attacks against a specified foe and whenever you threat to crit it's automatically successful. Hazzah! I would also like to point out that though this class isnt proficient with armor and adds its cha to ac and gains a dodge bonus like monks do. I would highly recommend taking a level of whatever grants armor proficiency seeing as how this class unlike the monk doesnt lose all of its special features when wearing armor, it only loses the AC and Cha to AC bonuses. Everything else stays, and since Cha doesnt influence any of the other class features, I dont see the problem, also it has any Chaotic as the alignment requirement meaning its good for Barbarian Rage multiclass levels as well. Maybe a Battle Dancer 8/Barbarian 2/Frenzied Berserker 8 or 9 or something depending the race you take.
ChristopherGroves 08-30-06, 11:51 AM	Well, there are feats and such that allow your various "weapons" to be treated as magic, adamantine, whatever right? Vow of Poverty leaps to mind ... that doesn't really work though as you'd have to keep asking people for money to get your booze to do drunken master with ;-)
NPCRedshirt 08-30-06, 12:32 PM	Maybe if I took battle dancer I could perform for my beer. Well, there are feats and such that allow your various "weapons" to be treated as magic, adamantine, whatever right? Vow of Poverty leaps to mind ... that doesn't really work though as you'd have to keep asking people for money to get your booze to do drunken master with ;-)
Save-vs-DM 08-30-06, 12:40 PM	Maybe if I took battle dancer I could perform for my beer. Best. Workaround. Ever. Save vs DM
WombleHunter 08-30-06, 01:01 PM	With the Tome of Battle, you could pick up Superior Unarmed Strike instead of Monk levels. It requires Improved Unarmed Strike, and scales up your unarmed damage from 1d4 to 2d6 at 16th level, IIRC. Then you could take Barbarian levels with no worries.
duhtroll 08-31-06, 09:34 AM	This . . . has inspired me. I will be back soon with an idea. ;)
WombleHunter 08-31-06, 10:08 AM	Throw in Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike)! Monk? Who needs Monk?
ChristopherGroves 08-31-06, 10:08 AM	Any idea what level you're starting and likely progressing to? Barbarian 2 ('cause he gets mad sometimes) Ranger 2 ('cause sometimes he needs to live off the land, pick through trash, etc.) Fighter 2 ('cause he did have formal training at one point) Monk 2 ('cause you need tumble, evasion, etc.) Of course, this delays entry into the PrC a bit. Meat-wise you get +7 BAB, 2 fighter feats, fast movement, uncanny dodge, two weapon fighting, track, a mess of skills, a favored enemy, flurry of blows, evasion (which does stack w/ two weapon). Drop Ranger if you want to get into the PrC quicker. If you want to get in at 6th level you need to drop a level of fighter or barbarian.