Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gamefiend 09-10-06, 09:23 PM	Hi, longtime lurker here with a petition for aid. With the ToB out, it seems that fighters are even more underpowered than they were. I've thought over changes I could make, and the only thing I could think of that keeps the fighter's flavor is this: at 9th level and every level after, the fighter gets an bonus feat. This keeps the fighter as the feat master, and seems reasonable as feats are typically not anywhere near the power of class abilities of spells. I've tried some stuff out myself , and it seems OK. I didn't want to start it too early howe But what I'd really like is to get some optimizing muscle behind this. Your mission, should you accept -- break this "new and improved" (?) fighter. Obviously you have to include enough levels of fighter to see (minimum 10 levels) It would be nice to see a ftr 20 here as well. Please DO NOT post your alternate fighter improvements (although if you have suggestion for this idea , please share). I'm curious to see if *this* will work. use any WotC 3.5 material that you want. Looking forward to something interesting from the CO. Thanks in advance.
X-Codes 09-10-06, 09:44 PM	Barring taking multiple combat manuvers from ToB, this is not a Fighter fix at all. Anyone can take any feat a fighter can except for 4: Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, and Weapon Supremacy. The problem with those 4 feats is that they suck with a capital suck, two exclamation points, and a 1. In other words, they SUCK!!1 It certainly doesn't help the Fighter's case that theres another class with almost as many bonus feats that also has a very good selection of Psionic Powers to choose from, as well as a few easy-to-access PrC's that also give Weapon Specialization for free (which opens up access to Melee Weapon Mastery, Crushing Strike, Driving Attack, and Slashing Flurry, the best combat feats in the PHB II). Theres never any reason to play the Fighter class past level 4 because theres nothing a Fighter can do that someone else can't also do, and since someone else also gets some cool class abilities...
Shaggy_Shaggs 09-10-06, 09:58 PM	Well, this is another six feats for the gatling chain gun tripper, if nothing else.
Iry 09-10-06, 09:58 PM	I humbly propose that if the Fighter got a feat every single level of it's existence it still wouldn't equal 9th level spells.
Brol_The_Mighty 09-11-06, 09:02 AM	No, but it'd freakin ROCK in a gestalt build...
gamefiend 09-11-06, 01:28 PM	Barring taking multiple combat manuvers from ToB, this is not a Fighter fix at all. Anyone can take any feat a fighter can except for 4: Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, and Weapon Supremacy. The problem with those 4 feats is that they suck with a capital suck, two exclamation points, and a 1. In other words, they SUCK!!1 It certainly doesn't help the Fighter's case that theres another class with almost as many bonus feats that also has a very good selection of Psionic Powers to choose from, as well as a few easy-to-access PrC's that also give Weapon Specialization for free (which opens up access to Melee Weapon Mastery, Crushing Strike, Driving Attack, and Slashing Flurry, the best combat feats in the PHB II). Theres never any reason to play the Fighter class past level 4 because theres nothing a Fighter can do that someone else can't also do, and since someone else also gets some cool class abilities... I understand all of what you're saying, but I guess what I'm trying to do is see what can be done to make the fighter better. I could post on the character class forum, but a lot of their fixes don't gel with me. I also ask here because I feel the CO has a much better understanding of balance in the game than people on the other forums. I think people are missing my point, so I'll try to be more clear: I know that fighters suck, but is there a way to balance the 'class ability' of the fighter (i.e. feats) so that it sucks less, or (heaven forbid) becomes pretty good? I'll ask a question: How many feats is a class ability worth? How many feats is the Barbarian Rage ability worth? a 1st level spell? a fifth level spell? ninth? If a fighter had 40 feats to play with, would he be any good? Thanks for contributions thus far.
Kharmakazy 09-11-06, 04:32 PM	There is a guy out there somewhere... rebalancing classes. His rebalanced fighter if I recall... got a bonus feat every level.
X-Codes 09-11-06, 04:40 PM	There is a guy out there somewhere... rebalancing classes. His rebalanced fighter if I recall... got a bonus feat every level. I still wouldn't play it past 4th level. The way to fix the fighter is to put in more Fighter-Specific feats, and powerful ones, too, not this +2 damage crap. In other words, in order to make the Fighter powerful you pretty much need to write ToB.