Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tehril 01-29-07, 02:51 AM	Well, the title says it all. My character will be an 18th level critter, with a few allies to help him out. One is a 20th level monk, another an 18th level archer type, another an 18th level rogue (vampire, shadow dancer), and I'm not sure what else. Point buy is 32. Anything other than draconic heritage is allowed. The enemy will have an SR of between 32 and 45, as well as whatever ungodly artifacts one can imagine. HP is 500-1000 (dunno exactly). Saves are beyond beliefe, of course, so I already know any spell that allows a save is pretty much right out of the window. It also has at least 16 levels of sorcerer. Now,my initial build was focused on enervation... a necromancer8/incantatrix 10 with metamagic school focus (necromancy), SP/GSP, Assay Resistance and the other swift spell that grants you +10 on your next spell etc I figured perhaps greater or reaving dispel to kick it off, an Avasculating ray or two, then the enervation... and then toss in the personal antimagic ray spell from the draconomicon, and then let the rest of the party take it apart. Feats of Interest: Enlarge Spell, Empower, Quicken, Maximize, Fell Drain, Spell Castin Prodigy (boosting into to 29 for the purpose if casting spells and spells per day... no magical items so far), Searing Heat, Piercing Cold. All of this sounds nice and dandy, but I feel like I'm missing something... that I really should be able to do more (especially after hearing what the monk plans to do). Normally I'm pretty good at this stuff, but I feel over my head at the moment. Our DM likes BIG encounters, and this guy not only is this brutal, but he's got an artifact in every slot (don't know exact abilities)...and he has a book that can summon demons pretty much every round I believe :|
LordBOB777 01-29-07, 03:38 AM	Maxed Empowered Shivering Touch?
Tleilaxu_Ghola 01-29-07, 03:58 AM	*sigh* Someone seriously needs to make a How to kill a rediculously over powered dragon... with a toothpick... thread. Or something like that, just so we can link the same solutions whenever these threads pop up. Alright, in lieu of such a thread, here's the generic solution, for a character in your situation: Buffs: Foresight, extended with a rod of extend. I think you will need to be able to cast this 4 times a day or so, depending on your CL to keep it active all day long. This is a 9th level spell, you can find it in the PHB. Favor of the Martyr or that one feat from Dragon Marked which renders you immune to the dazed condition. Execution: Upon entering combat, you cast the following sequence of spells: Twinned Celerity (4th level occupying an 8th level slot, PHB 2 & CArc): Grants two standard actions as an immediate action. Foresight means you're never flat-footed. Essentially you can auto-succeed initiative, even on a surprise round. Immunity to daze means, well, you aren't dazed by using celerity. Greater Teleport somewhere safe (7th level, PHB) Time Stop (9th level, PHB), Maximized with a greater rod of maximization. Greater Teleport back. Do something Do something Do something Do something That's the generic solution. In the 4 do something slots you set up a sure death. Could involve conjuring a meteor above the dragon's head, could involve trickery with energy transformation field, could involve a lot of summoned monsters. It's up to you. But this is the guaranteed method to going first and ensuring that you'll have the upper hand, no matter the circumstances.
Tehril 01-29-07, 02:44 PM	If WOTC had a proper search by forums function (like they used to) I'd be a much happier man. But thank you for taking the time to list the solutions that you have. One more question.... where is that Favour of the Martyr from? I can fnd Favour of Ilmalter....similar effects, but it's not arcane :(
JaronK 01-29-07, 03:12 PM	But still, Maximized Reach Shivering Touch should get the job done in one hit with no save, as long as you can hit his touch AC of, what is it, 2? SR is allowed I think, so that feat from CompArc that lets you take a 10 on such tests would be a good plan. One shot TKO. JaronK
mercury529 01-29-07, 03:18 PM	Assay Spell Resistance (SC) is an immediate action and should help penetrate the SR. Arcane Mastery lets you take a 10 on the caster level check. That is 38 right there. Arcane Thesis would bump it to 40. Create Magic Tattoo and an Ioun Stone could boost that to 42 I believe. Archmage can give you more CL. 5 Wizard/10 Incantatrix/3 Archmage (provided your DM allows you to choose the +1 CL with each archmage level) with the above guarantees you beating SR 45. An item that lets you reroll in case you roll a 1 on your Shivering Touch could also be helpful. An Incantrix build (perhaps w/ Arcane Thesis) should allow you to stack metamagic on the Shivering Touch. Ideally you would want at least Empowered and Maximized Shivering Touch. It sounds like the most feasible way of dealing with him.
Tehril 01-29-07, 03:29 PM	Where is that Shivering Touch from? Frost Fell? Libre Mortis?
PhoenixInferno 01-29-07, 03:41 PM	Where is that Shivering Touch from? Frost Fell? Libre Mortis?Frostburn - it is the ULTIMATE Red Dragon neutralizer because it has the [Cold] descriptor (hence, deals 150% damage to Mr. Red).
Tehril 01-29-07, 03:43 PM	oops... I did find it & thanks for the heads up :D I just hit the wrong button after I edited my comment :| I see Ice Darts are pretty nice too... with Max, Emp, Piercing Cold on them...
The Jake 01-29-07, 05:27 PM	Assay Spell Resistance (SC) is an immediate action and should help penetrate the SR. Arcane Mastery lets you take a 10 on the caster level check. That is 38 right there. Arcane Thesis would bump it to 40. Create Magic Tattoo and an Ioun Stone could boost that to 42 I believe. Archmage can give you more CL. 5 Wizard/10 Incantatrix/3 Archmage (provided your DM allows you to choose the +1 CL with each archmage level) with the above guarantees you beating SR 45. An item that lets you reroll in case you roll a 1 on your Shivering Touch could also be helpful. An Incantrix build (perhaps w/ Arcane Thesis) should allow you to stack metamagic on the Shivering Touch. Ideally you would want at least Empowered and Maximized Shivering Touch. It sounds like the most feasible way of dealing with him. Don't forget the Arcane Preparation feat out of Complete Arcane. With Assay Spell Resistance you can effectively take 20 to beat SR.
LordBOB777 01-29-07, 06:29 PM	Im not seeing how Arcane Preparation helps.
Blade2718 01-29-07, 06:51 PM	Don't forget the Arcane Preparation feat out of Complete Arcane. With Assay Spell Resistance you can effectively take 20 to beat SR.Don't need to. Shivering touch is no save, no SR. Twinned Maximized Empowered Reach is the way to go. Get a lot of metamagic rods!
Endarire 01-29-07, 07:38 PM	Buy a candle of invocation. Cast gate to bring in a titan, ordering it to join your cause in this fight and to use its abilities to ensure that you collectively survive. Have this titan cast gate to bring in another titan who casts gate. -EE
Blade2718 01-29-07, 07:46 PM	Buy a candle of invocation. Cast gate to bring in a titan, ordering it to join your cause in this fight and to use its abilities to ensure that you collectively survive. Have this titan cast gate to bring in another titan who casts gate. -EEWell, heck, at that rate, get several candles of invocation and fill your 9th level slots with gate and use them all to call titans.
LogicNinja 01-29-07, 08:16 PM	Buy a candle of invocation. Cast gate to bring in a titan, ordering it to join your cause in this fight and to use its abilities to ensure that you collectively survive. Have this titan cast gate to bring in another titan who casts gate. -EE :D Infinite Titan Army FTW.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 01-29-07, 08:18 PM	Don't need to. Shivering touch is no save, no SR. Twinned Maximized Empowered Reach is the way to go. Get a lot of metamagic rods! Wrong. Shivering touch does permit SR, making that it's greatest weakness against dragons. Furthermore, any epic dragon with anything will have immunity to ability damage.
mercury529 01-29-07, 08:21 PM	I wasn't sure if Shivering Touch qualified for SR. Then I think your best bet is to use it, and have either an item to allow a reroll if you roll a critical OR use a Lesser Wish to guarantee your next Shivering Touch hits.
Blade2718 01-29-07, 08:44 PM	Wrong. Shivering touch does permit SR, making that it's greatest weakness against dragons. Furthermore, any epic dragon with anything will have immunity to ability damage.Poo. That's what I get for not reading the spell or memorizing the details.
ZeroAvatar 01-30-07, 08:01 AM	Still, Max-Emp-Reach-Delay-Shivering-Touch is a good opening gambit against any red dragon, epic or not. If he has artifacts with some sort of ray turning effect however...things could go wrong.