Post/Author/DateTime	Post
naramore 09-07-04, 08:38 PM	I been thinking of playing in a living grekhawk campaign and I want a very powerful fighter type character(fighter/ranger/paladin/rogue/barbarian/monk, any of these classes) in TEN levels. This way I'll actually be able to get very powerful in my lifetime since we all know how long it takes to level in greyhawk. Level, feat, and skill progression would be nice to have for your ideas. I'm at a loss. I'd appreciate all help. -naramore
JosephKell 09-07-04, 09:41 PM	I would aim a little lower than 10th level for Living Greyhawk. Unless you have a Herald Level GM (or higher) in your group, you will probably have to Convention Crawl to get to even 5th level within a year. My suggestion would be to go for a solid Human Greatsword Fighter or Dwarf Waraxe Fighter. There is some merit to the Starting Packages in the 3.5 Player's Handbook. At low levels, Weapon Focus is extremely important. Human Fighter Feats: Weapon Focus (Greatsword, Greataxe, Heavy Flail, or Halberd), Power Attack, Cleave Dwarf Fighter Feats: Weapon Focus (Waraxe), Power Attack Just take the ol' Scail Mail (and Heavy Wooden Shield if you are a Dwarf). If you are a Human you might consider a Greataxe instead as it has about the same damage capability (and it is cheaper). If money gets really tight, the Heavy Flail is only 15 gp and the Halberd is only 10 gp. The Heavy Flail is good for disarming and tripping and the Halberd is nice because it has two forms of damage that it can deal. A Cold-Iron Halberd is only 20 gp (the price of a Greataxe).
UMiskatonic 09-07-04, 11:40 PM	Following Joseph's advice, I would aim for masterwork weapons, misc gear and banded mail by 2nd level, a +1 weapon by 3rd level, and +1 full plate by 4th level. As far as feats go, the essential one is IRON WILL by the time you get to APL 6. Power Attack is also required to punch through DR. The multiclassing depends a bit on alignment, any ideas where you want to go there? Lawful types benefit a lot from 1-2 levels of monk. Chaotic types benefit from barbarian 2. Two levels of ranger, or three levels of rogue are never bad either, depending on where you want to go. There are a number of spiked chain LG characters, and with the new Exotic weapon master, you can get pretty crazy. By 6th level, you are making three attacks a round, plus and AO's you might be entitiled to. By the way, archers have a good time of it in LG, as they dish out big damage, and are generally not the first target for bad guys. Cheers, UMiskatonic
JosephKell 09-08-04, 01:04 AM	One more thing. Get EVERYONE in your gaming group to take the Herald Level GM test. As you all should share the GM responsibilities. Just don't try the whole "extra PC as a pseudo NPC." It looks shady if your character sheet has a few of the adventures (where xp and/or items were gained) signed off with your own name, signature, and RPGA number. As a RPGA GM myself, I've tossed a few people away from the table (there are always 6 backups) because their sheets looked shady. Also. Forget EVERY "C.O. basic" you read here. Magic items are like XP, all are signed off for when they were gained and you are lucky if you even get +1 stuff. To futher build on UM's tips. Treat DR as something serious. Hopefully the casters in whatever party will play smart and save their damage spells for creatures with Damage Reduction. Cold-Iron is x2 cost. Alchemical Silver is more or less expensive depending on the base item's cost. +20 gp for a light weapon, +90 for one-handed (or one head of a double weapon), and +180 gp for a two-handed or both heads of a double weapon. So at level one, you might want to squeeze a 30 GP Silver Shortsword (1d6-1, 19-20/x2, piercing silver) in there. That is why it might be better to go Halberd over Greatsword so that you can just squeeze in a Cold-Iron one. I made a paladin once that had a Alchemical Silver Bastard Sword and a Cold-Iron Bastard Sword. Archers are easy to make into DR cutters: Cold Iron arrows cost 2 gp for 20. Silver Arrows are 3 gp for 20. And a Magic bow can do most of the rest.
UMiskatonic 09-08-04, 02:13 AM	Also, play intro mods. They are designed for 1st level characters. Start with the ones for your region, and then try the new core intro (I have not played it, and don't know about it). Then, start in on APL 2 adventures. Use the APL system to your advantage. If your party is poorly balanced, try to play down to the lower APL. Also, the minimum size of a LG table is four, you almost always have six at conventions. Don't worry about being versatile, that's what your teammates are for. Instead, focus, and do one thing well. Buy a wand of CLW as soon as you find one. Cheers, UMIskatonic
Himosan 09-08-04, 02:42 AM	It's hard to completely min-max LvG unless you know what region (and hence metaorgs) are available. Basically you want to be a Crc or Drd and grab Spikes asap. I prefer the Drd because with the animal companion they tank better at low levels.
sgc8647 09-08-04, 08:28 AM	Here is an advice from an year 1 Living Grey player: either have a huge quantity of hp of play a class that does not rely on a few key items to be effective. (as the opportunity to find the items you want/ need are very low) in that respect i would either play a cleric (who can be melee oriented via domain and feats) or a straight druid. Both can rely on their spell to enhance their effectiveness. but if you really want to play a tank type i would go with a dwarven defender or a straight barbarian (darven type to have at least 16 con) Gregoire
Maleous 09-08-04, 09:22 AM	Hmm, a few general LG tips. Archers rock: There's very few situations where archers can't get a full attack. Take Sharp-shooting form CW and Improved rapid shot at 6th and you'll never be at more than a -2. Wood elves and humans are good. A powerful build is Ranger 2/fighter 4/OotBI/deepwoodsniper. Archers have good hp, good AC( through dex, armour and buckler) and balanced saves, also with OotBI, you don't draw AoO. Sorcerors are better than Wizards: The fact the LG has lower gold/experience ratio hurts wizards due to the costs of buying and scribing scrolls. Also wizard spells such as divinations etc don't see much use in the typical adventure. Blasting power can't be beaten. Also the wizards crafting feats aren't so usefull if you play a lot. (see below). Unless there's HUGE benefits, don't join too many meta-orgs with your first character. If you end up wanting to play lots of LG, then the time spent in meta-orgs is time spent away from XP earning adventures By the same logic as above, crafting feats are pure gold for secondary characters, but not as great for primaries. This only applies if you play lots of Living Greyahwk. Weapons: don't worry about gold when starting out. Gold doesn't grow on trees, but you will be able to afford the extra 20 gp for a greatsword. Also +1 weapons are available to all, if you can afford them. Never drop con: For almost all classes, the optimum value of con is 14 (before racial mods) In light of you post it doesn't sound like you'll be playng LG enough to run out of Time Units. (TU). So a crafting approach might work to save you gold. LG Dwarven cleric of Genwar Argrim (Law and War) str14 , dex 12, con 16, int 12, wiz 15, cha 6. You'll be using a waraxe one-handed due to Gendwar Argrim. Also with 14 str, weapon focus and medium BAB, you're so close on that fighter's tail it's not funny. Also, with cheap stat boost items and armour, coupled with the Spikes spell,you won't have any trouble in the melee department. 1 WFocus(waraxe), Combat casting 2 3 Craft wondrous item 4 5 6 Craft Arms and Armour 7 8 9 Augment Healing. 10 Take one or two levels of warpriest ASAP to get teh glory domain. Turning isn't your thing but itgive you Holy Smite which satisfies the prereq for crafting Holy on you waraxe. Of course, a Servant of Pelor would be a great build as well, though not as good for combat until the higher levels. NG Human Cleric of Pelor (Healing and Sun) str 12, dex 12, con 14, wis 15, cha 14 1 Extra turning, Quicken Spell 2 3 Divine metamagic (quicken) 4 5 6 Divine Might. 7 RSOP This guy will be a support character at levels before 5ish. But Full Plate, con, d8HD and a good fort/will saves make this guy emminantly survivable. Buy a cloak of charisma so that you have 10 turn attempts per day. that means you can quicken twice per day as a free action. Divine Favour, Bull's Strenght, Divine power and Righteous might to turn you into a combat machine. Add on top of that the sheer amount of spare hp this guy carries around in the form of healing. So, do any of these tickle your fancy or do you wnat a less spell-casting dependant build? I can post that archer build if you want, or maybe a battle-field control type half-orc?
JosephKell 09-08-04, 04:40 PM	Um... Any Deity with the War Domain and a favored weapon of Waraxe or Bastard Sword confers the Martial Proficiency for the weapon, not the Exotic Proficiency.
Caelic 09-08-04, 04:55 PM	Damn, I feel old. Is my Living City character still valid? He's...uhm...first edition.
Aramil Liadon 09-08-04, 05:08 PM	Um... Any Deity with the War Domain and a favored weapon of Waraxe or Bastard Sword confers the Martial Proficiency for the weapon, not the Exotic Proficiency. And a dwarf can use a Dwarven Waraxe as a martial instead of a exotic weapon :D Aramil
Thannin 09-08-04, 05:34 PM	It seems like theres a lot of negativity around here regarding LG. If you're not happy with the campaign then no ones forcing you to play. No one forces a person to play any RPGA stuff at all. Personally and through vast experience as an LG player(year two alas Im not as experienced as some), leveling in LG isnt that hard. If you spend most of your TU's per year you can easily play as little as a home group and get to 7th or even 9th level in the first year. I really dont see a problem as a high level wizard and have worked hard to get where I am. I play a elemental savant (12th level with arcane strike), and can kick serious ass through melee/spells. LG isnt as stingy as all these negative posts make it look.
Mommy was an Orc 09-08-04, 05:37 PM	I might try these variations on Funny Slaughter's default 3.0 melee build(Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Barbarian 2) - ending up with a +6 BAB after 7 levels: 3 levels of skilled combat-type - Ranger, Swashbuckler, Rogue or Monk 2 levels of feats - Fighter 2 or Monk 2 2 levels of improved saves - Hexblade, Monk, or Paladin. Bard could almost go here with the right build. Try to concentrate on the following skills: Ranger: Survival, Spot, Listen Swashbuckler: Tumble, Escape Artist Rogue: Search, Listen, Spot Monk: Listen, Spot Fighter: Intimidate Hexblade: Intimidate or Diplomacy Paladin: Diplomacy Remember that Bluff, Sense Motive, and Knowledge(Nobility) add bonuses to the last 3. Then add Exotic Weapon Master 2 and whatever other PrC you like. x2 strength damage, flurry with exotic weapons or no AoOs from using a Great Bow... The next thing to do is fill out a complete feat chain or two. Combat Brute and Shock Trooper work well together. Uncanny Blow from EWM allows you to do a lot of damage with a specific exotic weapon if you have high strength. Spiked Chain can be lots of fun. Save a fighter level for level 7 if you want to get both Combat Brute/Shock Trooper by level 9... Here's a sample build - Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Hexblade 2/EWM 2 Rogue 1: Power Attack, EWP: Bastard Sword Fighter 1: WF: Bastard Sword Hexblade 1: Improved Sunder Rogue 2 Hexblade 2 Rogue 3: Improved Bullrush Fighter 2: Shock Trooper EWM 1: Uncanny Blow EWM 2: Exotic Sunder, Combat Brute
JosephKell 09-08-04, 06:08 PM	And a dwarf can use a Dwarven Waraxe as a martial instead of a exotic weapon :D AramilAnd my statement was in relation to a HUMAN who got Exotic Weapon Proficiency from the War Domain.
Maleous 09-08-04, 09:43 PM	Oops, I meant dwarven cleric of Gendwar.... I'll fix that. Thranin, I love LG, but it is true that the gold isn't up to the recommended level in the DMG, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that it affects some classes more than others. Kerry,
Himosan 09-09-04, 01:50 PM	Spikes on a Dwarven Waraxe? :confused:
Aramil Liadon 09-09-04, 02:07 PM	Yeah, wondered about that, too Aramil
Simpi 09-09-04, 03:06 PM	Hexblade: Intimidate or Diplomacy Do note that Hexblade (or any new core classes from complete books) is not allowed in Living Greyhawk. For optimal experience, I suggest anyone who is starting to play two intro modules first (ask local triad about them) and then play core special Mad God's Key which means that after three modules you will most likely be on level 3 or very close to it, since Mad God's Key offers much more experience than your regular module.
JosephKell 09-09-04, 09:19 PM	Do note that Hexblade (or any new core classes from complete books) is not allowed in Living Greyhawk. For optimal experience, I suggest anyone who is starting to play two intro modules first (ask local triad about them) and then play core special Mad God's Key which means that after three modules you will most likely be on level 3 or very close to it, since Mad God's Key offers much more experience than your regular module.I remember glossing over Mad God's Key. It can be found in a Dungeon issue... pretty recent one, August or September I think. That is another thing. A Dungeon Subscription is a good idea if you want to do a Living Greyhawk as it has been putting out 1-2 (sometimes 3) LG adventures.
Maleous 09-09-04, 09:47 PM	Hmm, I haven't succedeed in being very clear. I meant that he cold use a waraxe at low levels and a spikes club at higher levels...
mage189 09-10-04, 12:38 AM	Well, there is also one thing you might want to remember. Melee classes can get a lot less useful in the higher levels. I know a few melee based characters who complain a lot that they can't even get into combat because the sorcerers and druids kill everything, or that the clerics dust all the undead in the first round (Now my sorcerer, he doens't complain about that, but that's something else.) Min/Maxing is almost getting overdone in the realm of LG, especially since it was the first D&D world created by Gygax himself. Your not going to 'break' Living Greyhawk with a fighter type. I've seen people try. It was cool, but the cleric who dusted final encounters, and an entire mod, was breaking a heck of a lot more. The common build is ususally something like... Barbarian 1.. Warrior 4... PrC... PrC... So really just pick a race, alignment and go from there. You could always try the Paladin 4, Sorcerer 1, Dragon Diciple 10. You get to spend 15th and 16th level as a Gold Half-Dragon. ;)
Mommy was an Orc 09-10-04, 12:45 AM	The build works almost as is with the following in any case: Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Monk 2 Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Paladin 2 Do note that Hexblade (or any new core classes from complete books) is not allowed in Living Greyhawk.
RadicalTaoist 09-10-04, 01:05 AM	Remember people: Psionics changes everything. Hell, that's going in my sig. But I forget if strict RPGA rules allows psionics in LvG.
Simpi 09-10-04, 02:49 AM	Remember people: Psionics changes everything. Hell, that's going in my sig. But I forget if strict RPGA rules allows psionics in LvG. No psionics in LG and circle has been pretty clear that they will never be included and that's just fine in my opinion. JosephKell: That would be dungeon # 114 but be quick. Mad God's Key retires at the end of the year or so i've heard!!!!
Griff_Goodbeard 09-10-04, 10:47 AM	Sorry to be off topic, but could someone post a link to a site where I could find out more information on LG. Thanks Griff
Fwib 09-10-04, 11:06 AM	Sorry to be off topic, but could someone post a link to a site where I could find out more information on LG. Thanks Griff www.living-greyhawk.com (http://www.living-greyhawk.com) also www.wizards.com/lg (http://www.wizards.com/lg)
mage189 11-25-04, 04:13 PM	How long it takes to level in Living Greyhawk? I've been in it a little over a year and I have a 7th level character and a 4th level character. Both of which will probably be leveled during year 3 catchup. >.>;
Khazra Reborn 11-25-04, 04:37 PM	either have a huge quantity of hp Dwarven barbarian with the most focus on con possible. Massive HP!
RadicalTaoist 11-25-04, 04:40 PM	Gah. No psionics. That sucks. What PrCs are allowed with LvG?
Sir Morbid 11-25-04, 05:03 PM	That is another thing. A Dungeon Subscription is a good idea if you want to do a Living Greyhawk as it has been putting out 1-2 (sometimes 3) LG adventures. Mad God's Key is the ONLY Living Greyhawk mod that came out of Dungeon Magazine. All others can be played for RPGA points but do not count towards gaining experience or gold for LG characters.
edwardsobel 11-25-04, 06:33 PM	Gah. No psionics. That sucks. What PrCs are allowed with LvG? that sounds like someone I had in my game that just could not play D&D without psionics kinda like whats the point if I cant be a psion.
RadicalTaoist 11-26-04, 12:59 AM	Oh, I can and do play without psionics all the time. In fact, I like playing against psionic monsters and NPCs (the feat Antipsionic Magic is in the XPH for a reason) as much as I like playing as them. Psionics is to me an essential part of the game, like having gnolls or beholders SOMEWHERE and having them plotting SOMETHING with whatever kind of magic they can get their hands on. Sure, it doesn't have to be as common as arcane or divine magic, but with no psionics allowed it just seems...well, a little emptier.