Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Adam500 11-05-05, 05:23 PM	Well... ... I'll make this short cause Im still kinda speechless. Our group's DM is starting a campaign in which we can use material from ANY d20 source (if the book carries the d20 logo... its legal). I rolled this for my starting stats... 16, 14, 14, 14, 12, 11 We begin the game as commoners, and storytelling + roleplay are the key parts of the game, however... Im an optimizer at heart, and I MUST BREAK THIS GAME. There you have it... now, go my optimizers, go!
Antendren 11-05-05, 05:34 PM	Thermal detonators.
Adam500 11-05-05, 05:35 PM	To be a bit more specific... Setting: All TSR/WOTC Forgotten Realms Setting Materials and Novels(any edition) Nyambe Warcraft Ravenloft Iron Kingdoms Star Wars Rules Core Rules will default to 3.5, but will be backup to 3.0. All d20 based TSR/WOTC Rulebooks, except as noted below. All d20 based independently published materials, except as noted below. Non-published (private source) materials will be judged on individual merits. Star Wars d20 Force rules. * In cases where independent publishers' rules are in conflict with TSR/WOTC rules, we will defer to TSR/WOTC. * Psionics Handbook (any edition) is not used as is- please speak with the senior GM for details if you wish to use psionics.
P33KAJ3W 11-05-05, 05:58 PM	SW Material can be really broken The jedi class with weapon master will break it 8d8 dmg plus magic while twf - 7 attacks 448 max dmg plus magic plus str
MorandirNailo 11-05-05, 06:02 PM	Kingdoms of Kalamar Villain Design Handbook. Find this tome. Find it now. It contains a little concept called "anti-feats" which will single-handedly break your game (an extra feat/2 levels sounds good eh?). Also, be sure to read closely anything from the Cheeselords known as Mongoose and AEG (another key word is "Unarmored Defense." Find this feat chain!). What sort of character exactly are you looking to play? It would help greatly if we know what niche you're looking to fill, i.e. tank/skillmonkey/caster. A quick example: using broken third-party material, you can obtain a series of feats, which, when used in concert, will allow you to deny any target a saving throw for any spell you cast, by sacrificing 2000gp. Think of all those lovely insta-death spells out there. Now imagine that the pesky saving throw is gone...good times. The price is a bit steep, but after a while money will stop being a problem, if you use the right splatbooks. Another note: investigate demiplanes where time flows faster, much faster, than time on the Material (as described in Manual of the Planes). They're invaluable. Mor
Adam500 11-05-05, 06:37 PM	Well we start out as commoners. I figured I'd be the bookish type, maybe a student archaeologist. Going on from that, I was going to look for an excuse to completely betray the party and turn evil... muwhahahaha, but only if it seems prudent. Also, remember... I can use anything, i.e. Unearthed Arcana, i.e. Gestalt....
nullex 11-05-05, 06:48 PM	Gestalt - Artificer/Jedi? Make your own thermal detonators and light saber? Just a thought... :P
MorandirNailo 11-05-05, 06:48 PM	You can use Gestalt??? Well, that definitely changes the game then...there are tons of threads on Gestalt optimization around, check them out. Your description made me think immediately of the Archivist, from Heroes of Horror; while digging, you stumble across ancient tomes of eldritch power! Fits the flavor of the class perfectly. A Wiz/Archivist build might do nicely, with tons of Metamagic gained from your extra feats (seriously, if you can get the antifeat concept allowed, run with it. The chances of getting burned are slim to none; you roll randomly on a chart of 1000!). Divine metamagic cheese (need to get turning for this somehow) will turn you into a better tank than the fighter, and you'll have tons of spells to back you up. While you're at it, you may as well become a Magelord, and trump the Sorc too; you'll have feats to burn, trust me. Of course there's always something crazy, like Cheater of Mystra on one side and straight fighter on the other...tons of possibilities. Just take a look around the forum, you'll find more info than you'll ever need! Oh, and at what level do you get to take actual classes? Being a commoner for long sucks. Mor edit: ooohhhhh, artificer/archivist...there ya go, the perfect build. Trust me, Artificers own; ask the masters. Of course, Jedi is powerful...hmm. Either way, you'll completely dominate everyone else. Good fun.
Adam500 11-05-05, 07:49 PM	We will be commoners for one level. (The DM calls it lvl-0)
Endarire 11-05-05, 08:42 PM	I thought I should mention that you should take two insignificant flaws for feats, probably Murky-Eyed and Noncombatant, though there may be better ones available. Additionally, the Aggressive and Slippery traits may be worthwhile for +2 initiative/-1 AC and +1 to escape grappling/-1 to grapple respectively. -EE
lostone 11-06-05, 01:41 PM	gestalt jedi guardian 20///psychic build including War Mind 20. War Mind has that nice 2 hits for the price of 1 ability, psionics have some fantastic abilities that would complement a jedi nicely. or gestalt jedi guardian 20///frenzied berserker build. :eek: Power attack with that lightsaber x4. In either case, make sure you get your lightsaber magically enchanted with Wrathful Healing and Ghost Touch, you'll never run out of hit points and be able to hit all your opponents.
Mikal 11-06-05, 01:51 PM	Why go Jedi, if you're going to use this? I say go Sith, and get resource access.. nothing like thousands of gold pieces per day. :p Who's running this one anyway Adam? Orion, Tek?
the_narrator 11-06-05, 02:46 PM	thri-keen jedi guardian+magical lightsabers+thermal detonators.
MorandirNailo 11-06-05, 02:59 PM	Getting visions of General Grievous here *lol* wish I could play in this game! I didn't even think of the possibilities of enchanted lightsabers...*drool* And another piece of advice: never forget the possibilities that having tons of minions, living or undead, can provide. Fit Leadership into your build, and get a Thrallherd cohort! Go Sith as Mikal suggested, give yourself a Darth name, and set about constructing your evil empire... Mor
Adam500 11-06-05, 07:05 PM	Mikal, this is a game my local group is attemtping. If you live anywhere in or near Augusta, Georgia (I don't recall) your welcome to come. PM me for more info if this is the case. Psionics book is thrown out. The only star wars material we can use is that which relates to the Force (lightsabers are a go). -- Basically the Force is replacing psionics for the purposes of this game. I do need suggestions for species. Im playing "lvl-0" as a Gestalt Aristocrat/Expert(SW version) who makes his living as an amateur archaeologist. If anyone has a better suggestion, lets hear it. **EDIT: I might be able to get a SW race approved if I need the abilities from one for my build.
dog45 11-06-05, 09:37 PM	Hmm. I can't think of any interesting class combos, but as far as equipment goes... Look in D20 Future. Cybernetics. Robotics. Mecha. DM: Ok, you are all sitting in this bar when... Player: Nope. I'm not in the bar. DM: Why not? Player: Because my Gundam won't fit inside. This whole igame just seems slightly ludicrous. edit: Although, when I think of an amatuer archaeologist / Archivist, d20 Call of Cthulhu comes to mind.
rilem 11-06-05, 10:01 PM	Well, definitely use the gestalt rules, which isn't fair if other people aren't using it ... Also definitely pick up the unarmored defense feat chain, as noted, especially if you're an archivist type. It's in Swashbuckling Adventures, which is chock-full of some ridiculous stuff (It's not really unbalanced within its own setting, which is very low magic, but an unnamed bonus to AC that scales with level, stacks with everything but physical armor and stays put even if you're flat-footed, or subject to touch attacks, whatever, is prime for abuse when magic is laid on top of it.
Endarire 11-06-05, 11:25 PM	Why not an Artificer|Rogue or Artificer|Scoundrel? I think you would get more from these classes. -EE
tsuyoshikentsu 11-07-05, 12:34 AM	Is Jedi a PrC? Cause if not, a Jedi//Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Dervish 10/Tempest 5 sounds kinda good. A Thousand Cuts. With a lightsaber. Mmmm.
Endarire 11-07-05, 11:46 AM	There are Jedi Consular and Guardian as base classes in the core book. -EE
Adam500 11-07-05, 05:10 PM	There are some great ideas flying around, but I don't quite know yet what to use (and really, its largely dependant on how things get roleplayed out) so just keep the ideas coming... please!
catharz 11-07-05, 05:52 PM	Try to get the Heir (d20 Future) starting occupation. Assuming that you can use the wealth check rules. Then buy whatever you want (preferably a robot and some cybernetic components). Then just advance as an Artificer/Druid or something.
Adam500 11-20-05, 10:03 PM	Just an update, I got Anti-Feats approved (My first one is 799). I still don't quite know what kind of progression to go for with my classes, but I started looking at some of my old posts that included design for evil characters. Wish-List: Sith Lord Ur Priest (or other Divine Spellcasting) Arcane Spellcasting Illithid Savant(? Perhaps, see below) Im ending up with 32pt buy, instead of the above rolled scores. Additionally when my DM said "lvl-0 commoner class" he meant it. We gain no class benefits from our npc-classes except possibly hitdice (he mentioned it, but I have to clarify). We start at -500xp and any Flaws or Traits I take have to be taken then, and I don't gain them or any feats untill 1st lvl. I was looking at some of the Encyclopedia Arcane supplements from Mongoose. In particular, Crossbreeding has my immediate attention for potential abuse. Essentially, anything two creatures (except Undead and Constructs) I can get to hold still for the duration of a ritual are fused together into a new creature. Its moderatly difficult to accomplish, but the possibilities are endless. I can even merge myself with a creature, or merged creatures with other creatures (and the new creatures can breed true if I have one of each gender). I have yet to speak with my DM about the Heir starting profession from d20Mdrn, but I don't doubt I'll be able to take it, however I think the Wealth check rules will be vetoed. In lieu of this Im going to reccommend making the Wealth Bonus a bonus to Profession: Heir, checks that I make. I still can't find the Unarmored Defense feats. A book name would help. Thats all I can think of for right now, anyone who chimes in with some help or advice gets a cookie and my eternal gratitude!
Seerow 11-20-05, 10:21 PM	1) Where are the anti-feats listed? *has no idea what this is* 2) I agree with the idea for TWF lightsabers. If you can get a Thri-Kreen or some other multilimbed race, so much the better. 3) Jedi(Sith)20//Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Dervish 10/Tempest 5 *stolen from above post* will probably win instantly, if you're not completely sold on Artificer. You can always get someone else to make your magic lightsabers.
rilem 11-20-05, 10:50 PM	Unarmored Defense feats were in the Swashbuckling Adventures rulebook, I think.
Wilds 11-20-05, 10:54 PM	what ever you do get lots and lots of C4 C4 universal cure all
X-Codes 11-20-05, 11:20 PM	Are you sure you're not playing Munchkin?
Adam500 11-20-05, 11:26 PM	Guys, joking is fun and all but this thread is for the serious discussion of the character Im trying to build.
obrysii 11-20-05, 11:30 PM	Bartokk Jedi Guardian//Cleric? Phsyic Warrior? Sure, you have -6 int, but you get all of the benefits of 4 weapon fighting, bonus DR, natural armor, and regeneration (more like fast healing 1, but it can restore limbs and even a Vorpal weapon won't kill one) as well as the fact that even if they are vorpalized, their bodies will continue to fight. They're the ultimate multi-limbed race, and about the most broken race in Star Wars d20. Another would be: Wookie Werebear 9/Warshaper 3/War Hulk 7//Monk 20. That's a plain nasty build. Many attacks that each deal 16d8+str mod damage (when Enlarged).
widow 11-20-05, 11:46 PM	I play in a party that will allow anything from any book that is d20. It always gets kind of crazy. Here are some of the neat tricks I have found though with the alternate books I have. If you go with any arcane spell caster, the most broken feat in all existence is Lasting Spell. By raising the spell level by 3 and using up additional spell slots you can basically make a spell last forever (really, forever). This feat can be found in the book of Ultimate Feats on page 152. Technically to qualify you just need to be able to cast 3rd level or higher arcane spells. The feat does not specifically disallow you from using it with divine, you just have to qualify for it, so it is really scary if you are gestalting with a divine and arcane casters (or anythign that lets you qualify). I wont go into more details, but I bet you can think of a few spells to use it with. Also in that same book is slow spell on page 156. If you take an extra round to cast a spell, you cut the metamagic used on it down by one level. There is also Forceful Metamagic in dragon magzine 308, that once per day allows you to lower a metamagic adjustment by one level (page 76). So basically if you stack enough stuff on, you can cast one spell a day that will last forever. Feat intensive, but who cares for permanment spells. Edit or mix in divine metamagic last spell if you only want to use it on your divine spells, which is what I did. For the artificer in the group, I like the spell Reconstruct found in "Pocket Grimoire Divine." Basically you rebuild a construct for 5000gp and 1/50 of the xp cost to build an original. It is also reprogramed as you see fit, so it wont attack you. It loses hitpoints when you do this, but no big deal. After you get it back up, just suck it dry for xp. You can take that 200,000gp golem you just had to fight and turn it into 24,000xp for your crafting pool (3x for 8,000xp each time, can only do so many times due to hit point loss). The spell is level 7, but an artificer can easier use a scroll much sooner that most characters. It makes crafting tome books and wish scrolls much cheaper. Also along the construct theme, Mongoose has some theme books, including "Constructs it is alive." It gives you new constructs you can build along wth specific additional powers you can add on. I find it fun to make golem wands with. One of the powers you can outfit them with is a single spell up to 9th level they can cast at will every 1d4+1 rounds. Fun when using psionic transparency rules to get unlimited genesis (arcane genesis has material components which the golem trick does not remove). This trick is infinitely cheaper than building any other device to cast 9th level spells unlimited, but remeber they still require material components. Really funny if you convince your dm to let you build this stuff into yourself if you are a warforged. For the shifter in the group, green ronin also makes a "Pocket Grimoire" for magic items. I think the key item in that book is called a "Talisman of the wild." Basically there are different ones, that when used, add the listed template to your new form when you shapeshift with a power. It can be polymorph, wildshape, or just about anything that changes your form will sets it off. I think they have ones for vampires, half-dragons, were-wolves, and more. They are also incredibly cheap. I think the half-dragon one is 8,000gp. In that same book is more artificer goodies as well. There is a hammer and an anvil in there. I think each one does something different. One reduces the time by 5% and one reduces cost and xp by 5%. They both cost 800gp I think, but the anvil only works with metal items. Other things of interest are the Pocket grimoires in general, especially if you are a cleric with access to every cleric spell. They have some mean ones that add huge amounts to str and cha. Also mantle of ergoeous might in the arcane version adds a +4 luck bonus to everything, including your ability scores. Diablo d20 has messed up spells that are just unbelievable if you can get them by your dm, especially if he does not notice their spell progression does not go all the way to level 9, I think they stop at 6 or 7 so the spells are equivalent in power, or more so then level 9 spells are. Dragon mag is your frend, look around on the boards, there is feats to get regeneration and int for hit point bonuses instead of con for every level. I am not sure if any of this helps, but these are really power tricks I have found in playing with 3rd party d20 books
Zathyr 11-21-05, 12:59 AM	Setting: [...] Iron Kingdoms [...] Oh my. I'm actually in an IK campaign at the moment. Well to save anyone and everyone the headache of actually trying to sift through their rules, I can cut to the good stuff: mechanikal wands and staffs. This is easily the craziest thing from that campaign setting. Basically by making the "mechanikal" version I think they cost a bit more to make but instead of having their own charges they draw charges from an accumulator, basically an arcane battery, which can be removed, recharged, and replaced for the low, low price of 20 gp per charge, avaible now through this special offer! Heck, you can recharge them yourself with a DC 18 craft alchemy check and a day per charge, or substantially faster with an arcane condenser with some risk. But why bother? You can carry extra accumulators and use them as needed. Now anybody can be an Artificer! All it takes is cash. And really, once you have your mechanikal wand/staff of [money-making spell of your choice here], cash really isn't an issue.
tsuyoshikentsu 11-21-05, 03:54 AM	This is a brilliant way to get a LOT of power. I'm assuming that Tyrany works the same as Leadership, since I don't have 7th Sea. I'm also assuming that you're not using hte Wealth system, and are instead using the good-old GP/credits system. (I'll be calling them GP for simplicity's sake.) For the sake of SOME balance, Extra Followers will only apply to ONE Leadership. And finally, I don't think Competence bonuses stack, but that's okay. I am, however, assuming your DM will see the sense in letting your sidekick and your cohort's bonuses stack, sinse it's sharing of expertise and by definition they have different expertise. THE CHARACTER AND HIS HELPERS The Character First, you are any evil human -- probably lawful evil. Max out INT and CHA. At the expense of EVERYTHING. CHA needs to provide as close to +9 as you can get, and INT needs to go as high as it can. Classes: Smart 10/Exemplar 1/UA Expert 4/UA Warrior 4/X 1//Cleric 1/Marshall 1/Wizard 17 Your domains are Artifice and Craft, and your Skill Mastery is Craft (Mechanical). For Warrior and Expert, your skills include Craft (Mechanical) and Diplomacy. Aura is Motivate Intelligence. Feats: Level 1: Artistic Crafter (Craft [Mechanical]), Engineer In whatever order you prefer, barring prerequisites Skill Focus (Craft [Mechanical]) Master Crafter Leadership Undead Leadership Tyrant Minions Sidekick Extra Followers Skill Emphasis (Craft [Mechanical]) Handy Mercantile Background (Craft [Mechanical]) Ordinary Past Student of the Arts (Craft [Mechanical]) This leaves you with an outrageous number of bonus feats from Smart. Take whatever you think would be helpful. The Cohort: Classes: Human UA Expert 4/UA Warrior 8/UA Spellcaster 1/Field Marshall 5//Marshall 1/Wizard 17. Background is Dillente, or whatever that +6 to Rep one is. Skills are Diplomacy and Knowledge (Tactics). Aura is Motivate Intelligence. Feats: Skill Focus (Craft) Personal Firearms Proficiency Fame x 14 EDIT #2A: The Sidekick: Classes: Human UA Expert 4/UA Warrior 8/UA Spellcaster 1/Field Marshall 5//Marshall 1/Wizard 17. Background is Dillente, or whatever that +6 to Rep one is. Skills are Diplomacy and Knowledge (Tactics). Aura is Motivate Intelligence. Feats: Skill Focus (Craft) Personal Firearms Proficiency Fame x 14 EDIT 2B: Followers/Minions: Your followers are all Human. In the case of your undead followers, they all have the Corpse template. Classes: Their classes, depending on their levels, are below. In parentheses is the number of each you get, assuming a Leadership score in each of 25. Level 1: UA Expert 1 (540) Level 2: UA Expert 2 (52) Level 3: Dedicated 3 (28) Level 4: Dedicated 3/UA Expert 1 (16) Level 5: Dedicated 3/UA Expert 2 (8) Level 6: Dedicated 5/UA Expert 1 (8) In the case of Dedicated, they all take Empathy, then Improved Aid Another, then Improved Aid Another. Skills always include Craft (Mechanical). All skill points are spent on bringing it up to highest rank for that level. Obviously, this means the Expert levels are taken last. Feats: Feats in parentheses are to be taken after the first two. Mercantile Background (Craft [Mechanical]) Skill Emphasis (Craft [Mechanical]) (Skill Focus [Craft (Mechanical)]) (Master Crafter) (Builder) If the follower is a Dedicated 3, substitute Cosmipolitan (Craft [Mechanical]) for Mercantile Background. PROCEDURE, PART ONE Every second of your and your lackeys' spare time is dedicated to making money. A good way to do this, once you, your cohort and your sidekick can cast flesh to salt (and later mass flesh to salt) is to get cows, change them into salt, and sell the salt for the going price. Your lower-downs can make wind-up toys or something. The point of this is to get... Brace yourself... 19 million GP. Yes, THAT much. Please pick up your jaw; with enough lackeys working around the clock, it's doable. And trust me, you have enough lackeys Besides, you're never gonna really be buying any, you know, EQUIPMENT or anything, aside from stat-boosting items. Just tell your party to wait and see, and have good faith. Or just show them this build, whichever. PROCEDURE, PART TWO Now, you have 19 million GP. But what to DO with it? The answer: Spend every copper of it on raw materials. Once you've done that, here's what you do: go to a plane where time goes very, very fast in comparison to the Material Plane. EDIT #2: I have found a way to cut down on this time even MORE by adding the Minions and Sidekick feats from d20 Past. I am assuming that Field Marshall bonuses from two sources stack, because it makes sense game-wise. Your DM results will vary. Every day, this is your procedure: --You, your cohort and your sidekick cast fabricate until both of you run out of spells. --All three of you activate your Motivate Intelligence auras. --You announce your Craft (Mechanical) check. --Your cohort and your sidekick use their August Leadership ability to add 48+CHA (Rep+CHA) to your check. (They don't fail this because he's got at least 9 ranks in Diplomacy.) --All of your first and second level followers Aid Another you, for (assuming your Leadership, Tyrant, Minions and Undead Leadership scores are all at least 25) a +1480 bonus on the check. (Note: None of your follower's checks fail, because their feat bonus is at least +5, plus at least four ranks in Craft [Mechanical]. Add in the 1 from the lowest possible roll, and they get a 10.) --All of your third and fourth level followers Improved Aid Another you, for (again, assuming scores of 25) another +165. --All of your fifth and sixth level followers Improved Aid Another x2 you, for another +80. --You take 20, thanks to Artistic Crafter. Your check total is: 23 Ranks Taking 20, Artistic Crafter +1d4, Handy +2, Skill Focus (Craft [Mechanical]) +2, Master Crafter +3, Skill Emphasis (Craft [Mechanical]) +2, Mercantile Background (Craft [Mechanical]) +2, Ordinary Past +2, Student of the Arts (Craft [Mechanical]) +CHA mod, your aura +Cohort's CHA mod, cohort's aura +Cohort's CHA mod, cohort's August Leadership +48, cohort's August Leadership +Sidekick's CHA mod, sidekick's aura +Sidekick's CHA mod, sidekick's August Leadership +48, sidekick's August Leadership +80, followers' Improved Aid Another x2 +165, followers' Improved Aid Another +1480, followers' Aid Another = +1917 total check result. Now, the difference in Craft DC between a wooden spoon and a jet engine is 25. As such, me and a fellow player/DM decided that the magnitude of complexity from a wooden spoon to a jet engine (DC 30) is about the same as from a jet engine to our target object. The conversation is funny enough to be repeated below. Me: Would you say that the difference in magnitude between crafting a spoon and crafting a jet engine is abut the same difference in magnitude between crafting a jet engine and crafting, say, a __________? Me: A wooden spoon, mind. (pause) Me: Yes, I know it's stupid, shut up. Me: Just answer it. Her: hm. Her: i would say not quite as magnificent. Me: ... Her: at least the jet engine and the _________ have the same basic mechanics involved. Her: A WOODEN SPOON, TUCKER. Me: No, no, no, we're talking degrees of complexity here. Her: oh. Her: then yes. Me: Okay. Anyway, we decided that an acceptable Craft DC was 55. If your DM says it's higher, hey, even better; it just means the work gets done faster. So. 1524 times 55 equals 83,820. Not counting fabrication, you'll get 8,382 GP worth of work done in a week. Of course, this will still take 130 years not counting fabricate. Nihility found the solution to the problem: voluntarily increase the DC of the target item until it equals 1515. That's an increase of 1460, if you care. Anyway, that means you get 230,886 GP done in a week -- so this'll take you about 4 and 3/4s of a year. EDIT #2: But then, that's the OLD number. Since our NEW check is +1917 (or 1917-48-sidekick's CHa mod, if the field marshall bonuses don't stack) we can crank that DC up to 1915. So, 1917 times 1915 is 3,671,055, which adjusted and rounded down is 367,105 GP per week, cutting your time down to JUST under three years. HUZZAH! So anyway, let's assume you do all that. What do you get? WHAT YOU GET http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/egvv/vsd-eg1.gif That's right. A Vicstar. (Victory-class Star Destroyer.) Have fun with your new implement of destruction. And remember: it looks real good with a planeshifting helm on it. SOURCES Feats: Crystalkeep d20 Feat list (it's listed under 3.0, but has an "everything from d20" option.) Minion and Sidekick Feats: d20 Past Expert, Spellcaster and Warrior: Unearthed Arcana Marshall: Miniatures Handbook Smart, Dedicated, Dillente background: d20 Modern Core Rulebook Field Marshall: d20 Future Flesh to Salt: Sandstorm Victory-class Star Destroyer: Starships of the Galaxy
AllistairAldred 11-21-05, 04:27 AM	Wow. The possibilities for this are UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. I am too tried to really think of anything right now, but ill get back to you probably tomorrow, with some creation. although the jedi//Dervish idea is pretty awesome.... Wow...i just have to say that if one of my DMs did this i would crap a gold brick...
Adam500 11-21-05, 10:28 PM	WHAT YOU GET http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/egvv/vsd-eg1.gif That's right. A Vicstar. (Victory-class Star Destroyer.) Have fun with your new implement of destruction. And remember: it looks real good with a planeshifting helm on it. The achilles heel of this whole build is right there. The purpose is moot as my DM has ruled that only Force-related items from Star Wars are allowed in the campaign (i.e. Jedi, Lightsabers, Sith, Sithswords, etc.) Vicstar would be awesome, but impossible in this campaign world. EDIT: Thinking more about it, a fleet of 'Spelljammer Battleships' (for lack of a better term) would be interesting. However, the difference in complexity considering the limits of technology (Western Immoren from IK is probably most advanced mechanically) would severely limit the power of such ships. Shipbuilding from Stormwrack might be worth a look in this area, giving built ships appropriate upgrades.
nihility 11-21-05, 10:54 PM	This is a brilliant way to get a LOT of power. ... That. Was. AWESOME. I literally fell out of my chair laughing. Seriously, my hand hurts from catching myself. I laughed so hard that I scared one of my cats in another room. Your use of the spoiler tag was perfect. Hats off to you, sir! :tiphat: p.s. that post is the first thing ever to appear in my sig.
Titan W 11-21-05, 11:34 PM	Okay, ALL things from ALL D20 are avilible (Except for Psionics). Okay... Start as a Human (Pick up the extra feat) (Im about to get flamed for that one) Then go into Gestalt with Jedi Guardian and Jedi Consular. You have lightsaber so you can get Wepon focus in that right away, human feat dodge, and starting feat mobility, take spring attack ASAP and get whirlwind by 12th, go fighter for 2 levels in there for more feats, when you hit enough skills to get exempar take it, take focus in 5 of your force skills, you can now take 10 on them no matter what. Add in the Whirlwind attack with a +5 vorpal keen lightsaber (17-20 crit) modified as per SW arms and equipemnt for an additional doubbled crit modifier (13-20) and again specilized with the same (for an 8-20 crit mod.) so you can use 5 force powers with no chance of recoil, you can use whirlwind attack (Possibly even take cleave + great cleave) with an 8-20 criting vorpal weapon (If you can get antoehr moify/specilization (I can't remember weather it's one eah or two for one) get it to a 0-20 crit. If the SW one was just +1 crit modifier, apply those before magic for a: 18-20 -1 -1 -1 = 15-20 crit *2 = 10-20 so you hit 50% of the time you confirm an attack with vorpal... that's jsut awsome IMO. that gives you a hit with vorpal and a kill, whirlwind or celave into the next one... repeat until things are dead around you. You can also go into the fact that lightsabers ignore DR.... The 5 force powers you can use any time w/o fail, and all those skill points to pump up whatever you want (I reccomend tumble and 5 force skills, as well as craft: Lightsaber...) For feats: (If you get an extra every 2 levels from antifeat, and can take flaws to gain new feats upon creation... I sense fun building... Okay take any two flaws for any 5 feats at first level (1 starting +2 for flaws +1 human +1 Guardian) Now take Power attack, Weapon Focus (Leghtsaber) Weapon Specilization (Lightsaber) Dodge and Mobility. Level 2 Weapon Finesse Level 3 for Cleave Level 5 for Weapon Specilization (Lightsaber) Level 6 for Great Cleave Level 8 for Mobility Level 9 again, something else Level 10 again, someting else Level 12 Whirlwind etc... and double force point gain on top of it all...
Anguirus23 11-22-05, 12:51 AM	Tsuyoshikentsu, you are a genius, sir. An absolute. Genius. My hat is off to you...permanently. You just broke the d20 system. Shame Adam500 can't really use it!
nihility 11-22-05, 01:01 AM	I figure I might as well contribute something useful to tsuyoshikentsu's creation, so here goes: According to the epic crafting rules (http://d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#quickCreation), you can "voluntarily increase the DC of crafting an item by any multiple of 10" for the purposes of speeding up creation. So, by increasing the DC to, say, about 1500, you do the same job in about 3.6% of the time. Thus, your 130-year job now takes you a little less than 5 years, all else being equal. ***Edit*** I just can't get this out of my head. I think I might have to work it into the next campaign I DM. Heck, it was going to be a Heroes of Battle-inspired campaign anyway...
tsuyoshikentsu 11-22-05, 02:36 AM	According to the epic crafting rules (http://d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#quickCreation), you can "voluntarily increase the DC of crafting an item by any multiple of 10" for the purposes of speeding up creation. So, by increasing the DC to, say, about 1500, you do the same job in about 3.6% of the time. Thus, your 130-year job now takes you a little less than 5 years, all else being equal. And since that makes it go faster... G-ddamn. Post will be edited, and your contribution noted. OH MY G-D, I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING. The price stats for ships (and augmentations of them) are BROKEN for this purpose. Just take a certain ship, tack on a few modifications and what do you get? (Note: I fully expect no one to recognize this.] http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/eternal-arcadia/wall-05.jpg Come on, TELL me you played Skies of Arcadia. But seriously. A Greatship fully plated with Adamantine armor, three rotating-platform, firing-castle great bombards, and four light bombards per side only costs 1,300,000 GP -- which, compared to the 57,000,000 of a Vicstar, is a pittance. Since you're taking metal and putting things togeter with it, I'd assume that's Craft (Mechanical). Now, this means a total amount of 13,000,000. But wait a minute -- your check is about +1500, and you can increase the DC to +1000 voluntarily due to epic crafting. YOU CAN MAKE A GREATSHIP IN TEN WEEKS. EDIT: Did I say ten? I meant FOUR. According to the edits made in my OP, I've managed to increase GP per week to 367,105 -- one Greatship every four weeks. But how do you get it up in the air? Two words: cloud keel. Don't bother crafting these -- they take FOREVER.. Go buy one off a djinni or something. Repeat this for each airship you make. That's right, I said EACH. You're a powerful wizard, get control of a nation, or find some goblins, or something -- just find a lot of people you can take command of. (Maybe dismiss your cohort once you're done building, and get a new one with the three leadership feats and ten levels of Legendary Captain.) YOU ARE NOW ADMIRAL OF THE VALUAN NAVY. Oh, and nihility... you think YOU'RE gonna have fun? My campaign right now, my PCs are dimension-hopping with a ship... heading ot a galaxy far, far away... and have an extra helm of planeshift with them... Oh, and this is BEFORE Vader and the Execuor go down. Needless to say, something's gonna get a new helm...
Adam500 11-23-05, 02:20 PM	Keep the ideas coming guys. Im especially interested in which books/feats/etc. are "overly good".
AngelLemmingThief 11-24-05, 03:26 AM	WHAT YOU GET http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/egvv/vsd-eg1.gif That's right. A Vicstar. (Victory-class Star Destroyer.) I love it, but I can think of a quicker way to get it ;) Gotcha! the bluffmaster (using LA buyoff) phrenic (LA+2) star elf monk 2 / rogue 2 / hexblade 1 / wizard 1 / tatooed monk 5 / sorcerer 1 / psion(telepath) 1 / warlock 1 / master spy 1 / cleric 1 (charm, trickery) / disciple of beelzebub 1/ marshall 1 venerable star elf (is this possible?) (will change if better race is found) charisma base 18 + 2 racial + 3 age + 4 inherent + 5 levels + 6 enhancement +4 template (42, 46 with assimilate) int base 18 + 6 enchantment + 3 age +5 inherent(32) other stats= who cares. feats -Skill Focus (Bluff) [lvl1] -Skill Focus (Diplomacy) [Mar1] -Endurance [lvl3] -Item Familiar [lvl6] -Improved Unarmed Strike [Mnk1] -Improved Grapple [Mnk1] -Disciple of Darkness [lvl9] -leadership[lvl12] -Psicrystal affinity[lvl15] -Persuasive [lvl18] -tatooed monk tatoo = White Mask +10 unnamed -marshall aura = motivate charisma +16 circumstance -master spy's cover identity (+2 circumstance to bluff and other skills while under identity) -snake familiar(wiz) = +3 unnamed -snake familiar(sorc) = +3 unnamed -skill focus = bluff +3 bonus -chocker of eloquence= +10 competence -least invocation, beguiling influence = +6 unnamed -psicrystal, liar = +3 unnamed -empathy power = +2 insight -telempathic projection power = +4 unnamed, allows will save on target -attraction power = +4 unnamed, allows will save on target -tongue of the devil = +11 int bonus to charisma -charm domain ability = +4 charisma (1/day for 1 minute) -psicrystal uses aid another = +2 unnamed -bellflower tatoo (special) -machochism (special) -hexblade's curse(special) -item familiar = +23 skills pools all his points in bluff, and just enough to get his skills high enough for his prc's. then everything else goes into his item familiar's bluff skill. equipment +6 cloak of cha 36000 +6 headband of int 36000 liar psicrystal snake familiar chocker of eloquence, greater (6000 gp), also item familiar. Tome of Clear Thought +5 155,000 gp Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 155,000 gp major djore, lvl 9 power, assimilate 114,750 gp use the charm domain ability (cha 46), he then uses the djore on a commoner. this gives him another +4 to all stats(cha 50). then bellflower tatoo to boost charisma by +18 (cha 62 or 26 bonus), then +26(70), then finally a 3rd time +30 (74, or +32) cohort: venerable psion 1 / wizard 1 / cleric 15 (trickery, charm) / sorc 1 so with 23 ranks+ 32 charisma +3 unnamed(skill focus)+ 32 circumstance to charisma checks (marshall) +10 competence +2 circumstance(master spy) +10 unnamed(white mask)+ 3 unnamed (snake familiar[wizard]) +6 unnamed (invocation) +3 unnamed (psicrystal) +2 insight (empathy power) +4 unnamed (telempathic projection) +4 unnamed (attraction), +30 luck (machochism) +11 unnamed (int, tongue of the devil), +14 unnamed (aid another via psicrystal, 2 snake familiars, cohort, his psi crystal and his 2 familiars) +23 unnamed (item familiar[sorc]) +23 circumstance to int checks (since the tongue adds int to bluff, i'm hoping that the aura will add the int to checks bonus to bluff) main char uses machochism on himself. have the cohort use bestow curse(wis) to give whatever poor sap to be bluffed a -6 to wis. this lowers their wis bonus by 3 the cohort uses a quickened harm, followed by a regular harm on the main guy for 300 damage, dropping him to 1 hp. we have a +212 bonus right now, with a -2 sense motive on the enemy, and a -3 to their wis bonus. .)
oxybe 11-24-05, 10:26 AM	i was quoted... i'm touched. :weep: just to add to the bluff master build, the more clerics that cast Quickened Harm, the more damage is dealt = more luck bonues from masochism. so get 16 clerics surround you: y= you O= cleric buddies O OOOOO OOYOO OOOOO O delay your turn/action whatever until all every harm is cast. have all 8 clerics surrounding youcast the quickened harm at CLVL 15 (for 300 damage each). that gives you 2400 damage done, while keeping your HP at a minimum of 1. so masochism, which gives you a +1 luck bonus for each 10 damage dealt, gives you a +240 luck bonus. then they can do a 5ft step back... then the second fleet of clerics come in with a 5 ft step and cast their quickend harms... another +240 to your Luck bonus. so you get an extra +450 bonus to the 212, for +662... realistically, with a bonus that high, you could create mass hysteria (like the planet is gonna explode due to... um... kobolds?, or just own at politics (ANY ONE will believe you with a mod that high, and when they ask why you're so tired(down at 1 HP), just tell them you're tired from... uh... petting puppies and kissing hairy wookie babies). you can realistically keep this up for a long time. unfortunately, you'll be as weak as a quadraplegic newborn kitten, so have some backup plans ready...
jedrious 11-24-05, 10:53 AM	do it all, go Pun-Pun
tsuyoshikentsu 11-27-05, 02:36 AM	Valulan Armada vs. Bluffmaster: Bluffmaster uses his ability to scream out a +21239186321 or whatever Bluff. Unfortunately, since the airships are by definition airtight, no one can hear him. Then the Armada BLASTS HIM INTO THE GROUND. Oh, and my post is edited with even more brokenness.
lostone 11-27-05, 07:07 AM	Unfortunately, since the airships are by definition airtight, no one can hear him.Just because something is airtight doesn't mean it is soundproof. It has to be vacuum sealed or be thick enough or made out of a material that will not carry the vibrations. I don't know anything about the armada, so I don't know if this applies.
tsuyoshikentsu 11-27-05, 11:07 PM	Just because something is airtight doesn't mean it is soundproof. It has to be vacuum sealed or be thick enough or made out of a material that will not carry the vibrations. I don't know anything about the armada, so I don't know if this applies. True. I have no idea if they're vacuum-sealed either. I assume they're thick enough, though. Of course, the problem of being heard from the cannon's maximum effective range remains.
Adam500 12-18-05, 10:05 AM	Sometime today I hope to update the first post to encompass all the relevant rules, as well as a build. Speaking of build, I may have thought of a way to trick the Gestalt system. Anyone know a way to gain jedi levels without the ingame promise of jedi knowledge/teaching?
tsuyoshikentsu 12-18-05, 12:51 PM	Anyone know a way to gain jedi levels without the ingame promise of jedi knowledge/teaching? RPwise? Maybe you were sensitive and found a holocron...?
Gavinfoxx 12-18-05, 01:06 PM	OOooohhh! ooohhh!! What about warhammer 40000 D20? http://www.geocities.com/skrittiblak/ mmmm... that would be fun... space marine...
Adam500 12-18-05, 06:46 PM	RPwise? Maybe you were sensitive and found a holocron...? Sensitive I can do easy, however there is no garuntee of a Holocron or teacher because in our campaign world the Jedi don't exist for a few million more years.(see note below) Is there any way by the RAW to sneak around the little 'must have a teacher' clause? Note: Though the Jedi do not exist, the DM's personal npc is a Jensaari who I personally (while rping as Yoda) saw complete the Jedi trials. Said npc has been traveling somehow through time (not sure how, its supposedly lvl5ish) and is currently trying to connect the fragmented members of our PC group.
lostone 12-19-05, 08:13 AM	Is there any way by the RAW to sneak around the little 'must have a teacher' clause?There always has to be a first jedi. :D Granted the first Jedi probably wouldn't have all the abilities of a Jedi millenia later, as their knowledge of the force would progress. Also according to the comic books the Lightsaber is relatively new, only existing for the last ?thousand ? years or less, but the Jedi have been around longer and used swords previously (couldn't deflect blaster bolts with that though). Just try to convince your DM that you have raw natural talent in the Force and the *force* is teaching you what you need to know, or some jedi ghost that is thrown back in time, etc, etc. It *is* possible to teach yourself, Luke finished his own training, several Jedi in the novels build their own lightsabers without any help or instruction, that seems to be instinctive once you reach a certain point in your training.
Cannonballninja 12-19-05, 08:48 AM	Jedi? What about one better..... Might I suggest looking over BESM D20 (It's OGL so you can find it on the internet). I don't know about you, but anime styled characters tend to be a tad more powerful than their more limited counterparts. You've got gestalt as well so your already looking at some serious power. Might I suggest levels in the adventurer class on one side for the ability customization? Also, since you seem to be operating at level 0 you could take the student class which would be a fabulous starting occupation (yes, do not underestimate the student class :rolleyes: ). Anyway, might be worth looking over.
nihility 04-18-06, 12:47 AM	This deserves a bump back to the top.
tsuyoshikentsu 04-18-06, 01:21 AM	Just wanted to take the opportunity ot say that there were, a while back, some marked improvements on this idea. However, I've managed to top it again... at an infinite level. This build involves two of the cheesiest tactics known to man, but hey, it's not like the other one didn't anyway. Evolved Undead Bone Dragonwrought Magic-Blooded Kobold Commoner (Hey, why not?) 12, ECL 13 On a 32 point buy, put 13 into STR and 16 into CHA. The rest doesn't really matter, but since you get +6 to DEX, -2 to WIS and no CON score, I put it like this. You'll end up with: STR 13 DEX 14 CON -- INT 8 WIS 9 CHA 25 (putting the ability gains here each level) Feats: 1: Dragonwrought Kobold 3: Whatever you want 6: Leadership 9: Might Makes Right 12: Epic Leadership For your Evolved Undead SLA, take contagion. Most DMs will let you infect yourself with non-Core diseases, but if not, find a way to get Festering Anger. Get infinite human followers, all of whom have Artistic Crqafter and Empathy. Proceed to make anything concievable in a fraction of a second.
Senevri 04-18-06, 08:00 AM	Off the top of my head, I'd just want to recommend the Artillerist. I think it's in Quintessential Sorcerer book. You get: - Sorcerer - No delay on metamagics - Metamagics count as one level lower. O_o; It seemed like a bad Prc back when I read it the first time, before I found the CO boards.
ravenkith 04-18-06, 10:24 PM	Consider, if you will, A Jedi Guardian 20/Samurai 09(OA)/Monk 1(OA)/Iajitsu Master 10(OA). Talk about a truly terrifying duelist, especially if you win initiative. On a more serious note, have any of you realized that Green Ronin's Mutants and Masterminds is, in fact, a D20 product? Don't believe me? Just look at the little circular gold stamp on the bottom left of the back cover. Using Gestalt Rules? Hrm... The calculations to figure it all out would be nightmarish at best. You might be better off just running a straight version of the Superhero. Most things would be utterly unable to damage you at equivalent level. Page 130 tells you how to convert to an HP system. How does the equivalent of 8d6 DR/- sound to you? Powers to remember: Protection, Regeneration, Superspeed, Superstats, Deflection, Cosmic Power, Time Control. If you do use gestalt, build a growth/monk, and take advantage of the increasing damage by size of the Monk's unarmed attack. Superstrength could be useful to add multiple, 'always on' d6s of extra damage. And since you're getting your AC, Base Attack, Extra attacks & base saves, etc. from Monk....you can save a lot of points there for use on superpowers muahahahah...
Adam500 04-23-06, 05:11 PM	... Time Control. ... BRILLIANT! I can finally beat the DM's pet npc at it's own game! Now, I was thinking for my second character (Alas, the first one died), to do a psuedo Cheeswrought-Instabold/PunPun (not going overboard though, else things could get messy). This is just icing on the cake, as I had yet to find a way to truly travel through time unimpeded... now I can ^_^... plus other assorted goodies!!
neilthrun 04-23-06, 11:17 PM	I'm thinking D20 future might be able to break this game pretty well. Get a mech of some kind. Or play a robot. On the other hand, the half-elf bard might be a fun thing to play in a campaign like this.
scarfox 01-24-07, 10:54 PM	Build a time machine.
FeceMan 01-24-07, 11:11 PM	Kingdoms of Kalamar Villain Design Handbook. Find this tome. Find it now. It contains a little concept called "anti-feats" which will single-handedly break your game (an extra feat/2 levels sounds good eh?). Also, be sure to read closely anything from the Cheeselords known as Mongoose and AEG (another key word is "Unarmored Defense." Find this feat chain!). What sort of character exactly are you looking to play? It would help greatly if we know what niche you're looking to fill, i.e. tank/skillmonkey/caster. A quick example: using broken third-party material, you can obtain a series of feats, which, when used in concert, will allow you to deny any target a saving throw for any spell you cast, by sacrificing 2000gp. Think of all those lovely insta-death spells out there. Now imagine that the pesky saving throw is gone...good times. The price is a bit steep, but after a while money will stop being a problem, if you use the right splatbooks. Another note: investigate demiplanes where time flows faster, much faster, than time on the Material (as described in Manual of the Planes). They're invaluable. Mor HOLY HELL. I remember that "unarmored defense" ********. Hello, monk brokenation? Yeah.
Tenebrous_Sage 02-11-07, 02:20 AM	:Bump: and this probably belongs on the Theoretical Optimization Board
Chimaera2000 02-11-07, 03:53 AM	If you just want to break the system as quickly and effectively as possible, go with ravenkith's suggestion of Mutants and Masterminds. You're using superhero rules to build a character. Good-bye, game balance! A slightly more sane thing that I was thinking of was to maximize the use of those sweet, sweet lightsabers. Go with a build like this: Bartokk Jedi Guardian 5/Jedi Weaponmaster 5/Sith Lord 10 // Swordsage 10 /Teflemmar Shadowlord 4/Shadowalker Template 1/Iaijutsu Master 5 The swordsage is from Tome of Battle, the Teflemmar Shadowlord and the Shadowalker template are from Unapproachable East, and the Iaijutsu Master is from Oriental Adventures. The idea of this particular build is to maximize your Jedi fighting skills and lightsaber damage on one side of the build, then use Shadow Pounce with and iaijutsu damage on the other. Bartokk may be swapped for another race if the Charisma penalty is too high (I can't remember their mods off the top of my head). Any four-armed race from the Star Wars Ultimate Alien Anthology will do. You open up combat, winning initiative thanks to your Improved Initiative feat and having your Charisma added to initiative Use the Quicken Force techniques from the Star Wars Hero's Guide to quicken Battlemind and Enhance Ability, then use the swordsage's three teleporation maneuvers to move beside whichever enemy you want to slaughter. Shadow Pounce then kicks in, allowing you to do a full attack after each teleport. You'll be doing 8d8 base lightsaber damage (IIRC), plus you'll get Iaijutsu damage (which, with a decent Charisma, will be a lot). Of course, then there's the little fact that you'll have twelve attacks on each full attack. Think about it: four from BAB, two +x speed lightsabers, three from Multiweapon fighting, one each Improved and Greater Multiweapon Fighting, and one from the Jedi Weapon Master's Rapid Strike ability. Even without Iaijutsu, this build turns you into a teleporting dervish of death.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 02-11-07, 09:10 AM	I haven't read all the thread, but, Dragonstar (Fantasy Flight Games). Play a Large race, armed with a heavy machinegun (supported by a weapon harness). Take all the feats related to automatic weapons and then throw in some psionics/magic to crank the attack roll as high as possible. Not sure if its got the d20 logo on, but Iron Heroes (Malhavoc) in a game with normal PC wealth would be ridiculously lethal.