Bring 'em Back Dead! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bring 'em Back Dead! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gedrin
10-15-04, 09:42 AM Normally, I'm not a character optimizer, but this just struck me as wrong and amusing.

Say...you've got a Lawful Evil bounty hunter type built in D&D using Ranger as his class. Say you move on to take up Justicar as a PrC to help in your LE bounty hunting ways. Let's just say you made it to Level 15, Ranger 7(need ranger 7 to qualify for Justicar)/Justicar 8...

Now, there's lots of good stuff you get, but I want to look at Rope Use, and Grapple.

BAB: +15/+10/+5
For giggles lets give STR: 18 and DEX: 18, after magic items. Yes, things could be much better.
Feats (6+1 for Human): Skill Focus (Gather Information), Improved Unarmed, Improved Grapple, Deft Hands, Skill Focus (Rope Use), Improved Initiative, Quick Draw
Noteable Skills: Escape Artist: 5, Rope Use: 27 (29 for purposes of binding people)
Grapple: +23/+18/+13

Round 1: Grapple, (Quick Draw MW Manacles) Improved Hog Tie (rope use check), Either A: Try the hog tie again if needed or, (Quick Draw Bigsword) Non-lethal attack +3D6.
Round 2: The opponent is bound and helpless unless they escape (vs. a +39 Rope Use check, yes +39), so Coup de Grace.
Round 3: See round 1
Round 4: See round 2
Rinse...repeat.

Now, you cold do this also with a Rouge 8/Justicar 8, and you just get a bigger CdG. You might be able to debate if Sneak Attack can be used with Bring 'em Back alive, but that seems moot since it's not likely they're getting out of the manacles and you can just keep CdG'ing them.
You could probably even give the ranger "Wanted Dead or Alive" as one of his Favored Enemies, at which point things get even nastier (add between +2 and +8 to just about everything).

I'm sure someone out there could come up with a Reaping Mauler combination or other brutal ways to make this even worse. The proper magic items (gloves of Rope Use, Belt of Strength...whatever) could make things awfully bad. Naturally a supply of manicles, perhaps a magical pair or two, would be nice. I'm eager to see what could be done with this slightly wrong combination of mechanics.
Pashia
10-15-04, 11:47 AM You could give him a few spring walls =) dc 20 spot check to see, dc 15 reflex to avoid being entangled as if by a net (see chapter 7 of PHB)

springwall: This gnome-crafted device consists of a very thin wire mesh that is tightly wrapped up into a ball roughly the size of a fist. When the ball is thrown and strikes a hard surface, it springs open creating a flexible metal mesh wall 10 feet high and 10 feet wide hardness 0, 5hp. The extremely thin mesh is difficult to see. (Spot check DC 20) a creature who walks or runs into the mesh must make a reflex save (dc 15) to avoid being entangled as if by a net (see chapter 7 of the player's handbook) Once the springwall has been used in this manner, it cannot be used again.

springwall's are 60gp a pop
AlienFromBeyond
10-16-04, 12:00 PM Remeber, they can make a Stength check to just plain burst out of the manacles, so magic onnes will be necessary.
newblar32
10-16-04, 01:11 PM The shackles of silence out of the BoED are really good, DC 28 str check to break, and they have an area of effect silence spell cast when they are in use. They also give off an alarm if broken or slipped out of ;)
Gedrin
10-17-04, 11:02 AM Even regular MW Manacles are DC 28 to break. So, baring a really high STR modifier, it's a lock, if you'll pardon the pun.
Rod Howard
10-17-04, 11:05 AM Antimagic Shackles, DC 40 strength check to break, DC 28 to slip out and they also cast Antimagic Field with a radius of 5 feet.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gedrin 10-15-04, 09:42 AM	Normally, I'm not a character optimizer, but this just struck me as wrong and amusing. Say...you've got a Lawful Evil bounty hunter type built in D&D using Ranger as his class. Say you move on to take up Justicar as a PrC to help in your LE bounty hunting ways. Let's just say you made it to Level 15, Ranger 7(need ranger 7 to qualify for Justicar)/Justicar 8... Now, there's lots of good stuff you get, but I want to look at Rope Use, and Grapple. BAB: +15/+10/+5 For giggles lets give STR: 18 and DEX: 18, after magic items. Yes, things could be much better. Feats (6+1 for Human): Skill Focus (Gather Information), Improved Unarmed, Improved Grapple, Deft Hands, Skill Focus (Rope Use), Improved Initiative, Quick Draw Noteable Skills: Escape Artist: 5, Rope Use: 27 (29 for purposes of binding people) Grapple: +23/+18/+13 Round 1: Grapple, (Quick Draw MW Manacles) Improved Hog Tie (rope use check), Either A: Try the hog tie again if needed or, (Quick Draw Bigsword) Non-lethal attack +3D6. Round 2: The opponent is bound and helpless unless they escape (vs. a +39 Rope Use check, yes +39), so Coup de Grace. Round 3: See round 1 Round 4: See round 2 Rinse...repeat. Now, you cold do this also with a Rouge 8/Justicar 8, and you just get a bigger CdG. You might be able to debate if Sneak Attack can be used with Bring 'em Back alive, but that seems moot since it's not likely they're getting out of the manacles and you can just keep CdG'ing them. You could probably even give the ranger "Wanted Dead or Alive" as one of his Favored Enemies, at which point things get even nastier (add between +2 and +8 to just about everything). I'm sure someone out there could come up with a Reaping Mauler combination or other brutal ways to make this even worse. The proper magic items (gloves of Rope Use, Belt of Strength...whatever) could make things awfully bad. Naturally a supply of manicles, perhaps a magical pair or two, would be nice. I'm eager to see what could be done with this slightly wrong combination of mechanics.
Pashia 10-15-04, 11:47 AM	You could give him a few spring walls =) dc 20 spot check to see, dc 15 reflex to avoid being entangled as if by a net (see chapter 7 of PHB) springwall: This gnome-crafted device consists of a very thin wire mesh that is tightly wrapped up into a ball roughly the size of a fist. When the ball is thrown and strikes a hard surface, it springs open creating a flexible metal mesh wall 10 feet high and 10 feet wide hardness 0, 5hp. The extremely thin mesh is difficult to see. (Spot check DC 20) a creature who walks or runs into the mesh must make a reflex save (dc 15) to avoid being entangled as if by a net (see chapter 7 of the player's handbook) Once the springwall has been used in this manner, it cannot be used again. springwall's are 60gp a pop
AlienFromBeyond 10-16-04, 12:00 PM	Remeber, they can make a Stength check to just plain burst out of the manacles, so magic onnes will be necessary.
newblar32 10-16-04, 01:11 PM	The shackles of silence out of the BoED are really good, DC 28 str check to break, and they have an area of effect silence spell cast when they are in use. They also give off an alarm if broken or slipped out of ;)
Gedrin 10-17-04, 11:02 AM	Even regular MW Manacles are DC 28 to break. So, baring a really high STR modifier, it's a lock, if you'll pardon the pun.
Rod Howard 10-17-04, 11:05 AM	Antimagic Shackles, DC 40 strength check to break, DC 28 to slip out and they also cast Antimagic Field with a radius of 5 feet.