Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pfooti 05-31-05, 08:57 PM	Hey all. From what I can tell (stupid search nonfunctional), broadblade short sword bonuses should stack with each other, turning a -2 expertise investment into a +6 AC bonus (+2 from expertise, +2 from each of the dual-wielded broadblade short swords). Is this a worthwhile expenditure of a feat (EWP) for a rogue? I was planning on going with TWF and Expertise anyway, in order to optimize my sneak attack combat options. It seems like a big expenditure, but +4 AC for a feat is pretty nice, and otherwise I'd probably be dual-wielding a rapier and a shortsword anyway, so that's just a little bit of crit range that I'd be sacrificing (and with a rogue, the SA is the thing, not the critting).
pfooti 05-31-05, 09:49 PM	I forgot to mention that the "worth it" criteria is that it would improve the survivability of a rogue character in the 5-15 level range enough to be worth spending a feat. I imagine that at some CL, +4 AC isn't all that awesome, and probably isn't worth a feat to get. The question for the CO board is, given a decent combat-oriented rogue build, does the +4 AC ever become useful enough to consider spending a feat on. The other thing to consider is that the Rogue in question would have to be able to suck up a -4 overall hit to attack (-2 for TWF and -2 for expertise) and still not be too stinky of a fighter. Figure on weapon finesse and flanking to get a decent hit chance.
rilem 05-31-05, 10:35 PM	That -4 will sting, no question. Though a real combat-oriented rogue is going to be going into a high-BAB PrC like Nightsong Enforcer anyway. There are a couple other tricks to use to help offset this penalty. Exotic Weapon Master, of course, for the twin exotic weapon ability (-1 penalty sted -2). Even better is the Justicar of Taiia (deities & demigods), which gets you free EWP. +1d6 sneak and a +2 insight bonus to attack in 2 levels. Rogue8/Justicar2/EWM1/Nightsong4, for example, gets BAB +12 (net +14 attack with -1 TWF penalty WF, Insight bonus) +7d6 sneak
pfooti 05-31-05, 10:47 PM	Hey, thanks. I didn't know about the Justicar of Taiia PrC, as I don't own Deities and Demigods. Was that class at all changed in the 3.5 transition? A 2 level dip seems pretty nice, especially since the EWP comes for free, with a sneak attack bonus as sugar.
rilem 05-31-05, 10:56 PM	Plus good ref/will saves, 6 skill points and minor spellcasting. It wasn't updated to my knowledge, so some new-is-better DMs might veto it. But it's out there if available.
Claggart 06-01-05, 09:24 AM	Where does the Broadblade short sword come from? I've never seen it. Claggart
Jarad 06-01-05, 10:07 AM	Complete Adventurer
rilem 06-01-05, 10:24 AM	Complete Adventurer. Suggested feats for the above suggestion, btw, would include: Combat Expertise, TWF, Weapon Finesse, Improved Initiative, EWP (bonus), WF, ITWF, Improved Buckler Defense, Staggering strike
Lord Arkhaven 06-01-05, 02:35 PM	I love the new weapon variations they are coming out with but none of them are worth a whole entire feat.
Caelic 06-01-05, 04:53 PM	If you're going to go this route, you might as well go whole hog and shoot for, say, a Whisper Gnome. The higher Dex will further improve AC and partially alleviate the attack problem once you take Weapon Finesse. Better still, you'll be able to take Titan Fighting--adding another +4 Dodge bonus to your AC.
pfooti 06-01-05, 05:08 PM	Nice. I had missed the Titan Fighting feat. Seems decent. Still and all, the whole broadblade thing seems like it's more of a flavor feat or a minor way to add a couple of AC to an uber-AC build. As an everyday feat for an optimized character, it doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble. Hard to say. I'll probably try one out the next time I start a new character, because I've never played a Rogue. I played a thief back in 2e days, but never a 3 or 3.5 rogue.
catharz 06-01-05, 06:02 PM	The Broadblade shortsword is really at its best with 'Kreen. While +4 AC for a feat (and then some) is questionable, +8 is undeniably good. In fact, with the broadblades a 'Kreen Rogue can full attack (with GMWF of course) with a reasonable change of survival. If you really want to see some badness get a two-'Kreen tag-team (call them 'hive mates' or something), each with 4 broadblades and the Allied Defense feat [ShS]. One must be a Warmind/Elocater, the other must have Elusive target. Both combat expertise for full, giving a total +18 AC with the broadblades to each. Both are adjacent to each other and next to an enemy. The warmind/elocater uses Flanker and Sweeping strike to flank both his ally and his enemy, and does a sweeping strike against the enemy and the ally. The other 'Kreen uses elusive target to re-direct the sweeping strike against the enemy, then open up with a full (flanking) attack. BAM!
rilem 06-01-05, 10:04 PM	The warmind/elocater uses Flanker and Sweeping strike to flank both his ally and his enemy, and does a sweeping strike against the enemy and the ally. The other 'Kreen uses elusive target to re-direct the sweeping strike against the enemy, then open up with a full (flanking) attack. That's hysterical. On a much more modest note, I thought of another option to pick up the desired weapon prof. Ninja Spy (OA) gets a ton of free EWPs, which are generally ignored because all the other class features are so much better. Rogue4/Ranger2/Fighter1/NinjaSpy5/NightsongEnforcer7/EWM1 BAB 17 (plenty for combat expertise) Saves 14/16/7 Sneak 7d6 Improved Evasion, Twin Exotic Weapon fighting, Opportunist, Hide in Plain Sight, 2 free EWPs Required feats: EWP (bonus), TWF (bonus), combat expertise, WF, dodge, Improved Init. — You'll still have 5 free feats.