Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TinManFan 11-27-05, 06:42 PM	Ok, re-working and all, this is what I've come up with. Elf Ftr 4/ Swashbuckler 3/ Champ of Correllon 2/ Dunno X Feats 1. Imp Racial Weapon Familiarity (Elven Lightblade and Thinblade count as martial) Ftr 1 Wpn Foc Rapier (It says those 2 count as a rapier for Focus and Specialization :D ) Ftr 2 Dodge 3. Mounted Combat 3. Bonus from Swash 1 Weapon Finess 6. Combat Expertise 7. (Ftr 4) Wpn Spec: Rapier ( :D ) 8. (Bonus from Champ) Mobility 9. 2 Wpn Fighting Now. Would y'all reccomend finishing out the Champ PrC or hopping over to another 2 weapon fighting forcused Class or PrC? So far I'm adding Str, Dex and Int to the dmg of all attacks, but I want to focus on getting more attacks and making them matter. Any advice? Also, feel free to point out any flaws or anything. Thanx
EtherealFocus 11-27-05, 08:03 PM	Lightblade and Thinblade are both exotic weapons, even if they count as martial for you. Check out the Exotic Weapon Master flurry ability in Complete Warrior. Extra attack at your highest bonus, -2 penalty to all attacks in the round. Or if you'd really like to go nuts with it, grab a level or two of Monk, then drop into Shou Disciple (Unapproachable East) for five levels of good saves, full BAB, and flurry advancement that culminates in you being able to flurry with any weapon, martial, monk, or otherwise. Might as well pick up a Monk's belt too... The no-armor thing shouldn't be too much of a problem. Just get a doodad of Wisdom and a Monk's belt and you'll match light armor pretty well.
R2Keen2 11-27-05, 08:23 PM	11 Monk / Shou Disciple 5 / Swashbuckler 3 / Dervish 1 / Fighter 1 Is the basic TWF monk thats mastered Scimitars.. Might consider Kung Fu Genius which makes monk abilites based on INT instead of WIS so you can be STR, DEX and INT
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-27-05, 08:53 PM	actually deux is the proper spelling... for the french "two." I'm assuming that's what is what you meant in the header. As for a more valid contribution to this post... I'd take dervish as that missing PrC! It seems to fit the character well enough. You just need to throw in dodge and mobility feats...
Timlagor 11-27-05, 08:58 PM	Improved Weapon Familiarity DOES NOT qualify you for the CoCL. (it would say so as EWM does -it's such an obvious choice since you already have to be an elf) You're much better off using Ranger for your TWF so you cn pick up Endurance and grab Wildrunner2. CoCL has very little to offer you after level 2. Dervish is a great fit (you have to drop the rapier for scimitars). TWF comes very late in your build.
TinManFan 11-27-05, 10:59 PM	Do be a chum and look at Exotic Wpn Master. Says that familiar weapons count as exotic to enter that, just goin by precedent. They're the ones that put it in a book. (An earlier one too :D ) Hmmmm, Dervish does sound spiffy. As for 2 wpn coming late, was kinda using all the feats up to that point and the negs I'd be taking would hit harder as a lower lvl char than a mid lvl one. Plus unless you're hititn straight fighter, CoCL is freakin tough to get into. And I agree it doesn't add much after 2nd lvl, which is why I stopped there before guaging responses. As for Ranger 2, he's lookin Multi-classed out so far, seems like more will just make it more complex. Plus goin for more of a dueling guy, not a nature guy. Any thoughts on the Champs of Ruin feat that adds 1d6 to piercing wpn dmg after the first hit in a round? Lvl 12 feat or stick it in earlier? (Not used to optimizing a non caster so into new territory)
Mystic Mouse 11-27-05, 11:35 PM	I've been working on this for a while now (note: I have used Half-Elf Racial Substitution levels for my first level of both the ranger and fighter classes). I only dipped dervish to get the scimtars as light weapons (not for any other class abilities, since they don't work with armor and shields, which this build can do). Half-Elf Ranger (1) (Urban Tracking) Combat Expertise Swashbuckler (1) (Weapon Finesse) Swashbuckler (2) Dodge Fighter (1) (Blade Focus) Ranger (2) (Two-Weapon Fighting) Swashbuckler (3) Mobility Fighter (2) Mounted Combat Dervish (1) Champion of C.L. (1) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Champion of C.L. (2) Spring Attack Tempest (1) Tempest (2) Greater Two-Weapon Fighting Tempest (3) Tempest (4) Tempest (5) Improved Buckler Use Outcast Champion (1) Outcast Champion (2) Outcast Champion (3) Improved Weapon Familiarity (Elven) Outcast Champion (4) Outcast Champion (5) This build has full use of light armor and a buckler, and if you use dastanas from Arms and Eqip. guide, they stack with a chain shirt. The last five levels I have kind of reserved for flavor, since the main part of the build is through 1-15. Here are is the Damage Modified Weapons list for this build, up to 15, since Swash adds int damage, and Champ. of C.L. adds dex to damage (where both apply, have been bolded). At 18 the elven weapons lose their (-4 to hit), and become martial weapons. Simple (light) Dagger INT Dagger, Punching INT Gauntlet, Spiked INT Mace, Light INT Sickle INT Martial (light) Axe, Throwing INT Hammer, Light INT Kukri INT Pick, Light INT Sap INT Shield, Light INT Spiked Armor INT Spiked Shield, Light INT Sword, Short INT Scimitar INT,DEX Martial (one-handed) Rapier INT,DEX Longsword DEX Exotic (light) Kama INT (-4 to hit) Nunchaku INT (-4 to hit) Sai INT (-4 to hit) Siangham INT (-4 to hit) Lightblade, Elven INT,DEX (-4 to hit) Exotic (one-handed) Whip INT (-4 to hit) Thinblade, Elven INT,DEX (-4 to hit) Exotic (two-handed) Spiked Chain INT (-4 to hit) Courtblade, Elven INT,DEX (-4 to hit) In Forgotten realms I have added: Half-Drow as race raised in Waterdeep Flaws: Light Sensitivity Insomnia Bonus First Level Feats: Drow Eyes Twin Sword Style (stacks with buckler, where as Two-Weapons Defense won't)
TinManFan 11-27-05, 11:43 PM	Just re-looked. Dervish is out cause the bloody weapons I like are all piercing. Blasted rules.... Looks like Tempest then some FR PrC. (Thinkin some sort of fighting PrC tied to a specific god/ race or sumptin like dat)
EtherealFocus 11-27-05, 11:45 PM	Keep in mind that Dervish requires a slashing weapon, so unless thinblades and lightblades can deal slashing they won't work with it. If they do, then you'll want Flay Foe (deals extra slashing damage rather than piercing). Flay works best, obviously, with lots of attacks per round and it really wants pounce too. I'd say the chance to hit twice outweighs, in most situations, the -2 penalty to hit with TWF. Suggestion: Try something like Swashbuckler3/Barbarian2/Monk2/Shou Disciple 5/EWM1 (Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting)/CoCL2/Tempest5/DervishX. Barb2 will get you some nice rage, onto which you can tack Snow Tiger Berserker (Berserker Lodge feat from Unapproachable East), which is pretty much Pounce. There - now you don't suck when you charge. Tempest will make sure you actually hit with those attacks, and help your AC as well. Finally, Two-weapon spring attack will be nice when you really don't wanna get full-rounded. Grab TWF early, Flay Foe at 12. Optimize your weapons heavily: you'll need it. Other near-necessities should be Combat Expertise, Karmic Strike, Double Hit, and Sidestep. You probably won't have horribly high AC anyway, so take the -4 from KS and use Double Hit to smack someone twice every time they smack you once, then use Sidestep to get out of their range. Also grab leap attack - double damage for each of your two weapons on a jumping charge is good. Just make sure you max out your jump check with boots of striding and leaping, a good Str score, etc. You need a pretty high jump check to make it work. Keep in mind that TWF isn't a very optimized concept in general. Shou Disciple can breathe some life into it by netting you extra flurry attacks with any weapon, ability scores to damage can help, but generally speaking you need some good secondary damage (Scout/Dervish skirmish comes to mind, along with sneak attacks) to keep it competitive at higher levels. Otherwise a hefty two handed weapon with high damage (fullblade or greatsword), devastating/frequent criticals (scythe, scimitar, rapier, elfblades - give the former a higher chance of crits and even more damage, give the latter Vorpal weapons and maximize frequency), and/or reach/tactical ability (ranseurs are great - decent damage, reach, and +2 on trip attempts) will do you much better and require you to worry less about mobility. All that TWF goodness is no use if you're up against someone with high mobility and you keep on having to move and only attack once. Hence everyone liking Dervish and Snow Tiger Berserker and crazy charging builds.
Timlagor 11-28-05, 02:16 PM	Do be a chum and look at Exotic Wpn Master. Says that familiar weapons count as exotic to enter that, just goin by precedent. They're the ones that put it in a book. (An earlier one too :D ) It says that they count explicitly for *that* PrC. It sets the precedent that they say it with the PrC when that's what they mean.