Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Agifem 09-26-05, 05:55 AM	Hi ! I'm about to start a compaign with a nice DM, who will be focusing on making it mostly intrigue and roleplay, and some, but not a lot of, combat. Hence, i created a diviner, which i think will be a quite powerful character in the given context. She's a wizard, specialist diviner, and gave up the school of enchantement. We're playing in the Forgotten Realms settings, so i made her a Thayen, gave her the tatoo focus feat, and i intend to go to the Red Wizard prestige class (and give up the school of evocation). My DM agreed to use the 3.0 version, which will make my "read thoughts" spells quite powerful. Now, i'm looking for prestige classes that could fit this idea. The Divine Oracle seems like a perfect choice, but no more than 3 levels. The Loremaster looks like it could fill the remaining levels, but it always appeared weak to me. I was also considering the Planeshifter and/or the Shifter/Master of Many Forms, which would cost me a pair of spellcasting levels, but would give me some interesting powers. Also, if you have feats, or spells combinations to suggest, i'm listening. I already know the Augury+Deck of Many Things trick.
smrtgmp 09-26-05, 06:56 AM	If you're playing in an intrigue based game, I wouldnt give up enchantment. It complaments divination nicely, as it will allow you to plumb people for information much more easily, in addition to facilitating the creation of a network of contacts. I would reccomend giving up evocation, for a couple of reasons. First, there isnt going to be much combat, so blasting wont be very neccessary. Second, you can duplicate most of the evocation school with the shadow spells. Third, with every new book that comes out, the hallmarks of evocation are being passed out to other schools or made accessable via feats (such as craft contingent spell). I dont have a reccomendation for what to give up as your second school when you take red wizard, as I dont know your playing style, but I wouldnt choose enchantment. It is very powerful and exceedingly useful in any RP intensive campaign, and you'll kick yourself if you drop it. You might want to concider the Seer (psion) as an alternative to the Diviner. You get a lot of the hallmark powers earlier than you would as a wizard, and a lot of them are vastly superior to their arcane equivalents. For instance, Clairvoyant Sense is 2nd level (as opposed to Clairvoyance/Clairaudience, which is 3rd) and it doesnt have a range, while the spell only works out to long range. The former can spy on a location half way around the world, while the latter barely works down the block.
colm_l 09-26-05, 07:02 AM	If you're playing in an intrigue based game, I wouldnt give up enchantment. you can always try giving up necromancy - the major use of necromancy in a spy & scry style game is speak with dead - & that's not on the wiz list. You might want to concider the Seer (psion) as an alternative to the Diviner. You get a lot of the hallmark powers earlier than you would as a wizard, and a lot of them are vastly superior to their arcane equivalents. Very true. However the hallmarks you miss are hugely important. true strike for one (while not hugely useful in a non-combat game directly)
Agifem 09-26-05, 07:43 AM	These are valuable points of interest. As a matter of fact, there will be some combat, but not a lot. I keep conjuration and the few evocation spells i have for such situations where i need to deal damage, though i much rather us illusion spells to use a non-offensive kind of play (create an illusionary wall, for example), and let my team deal with the foes with an advantage. Enchantement is quite a powerful school, i admit, but i still don't like it. To be effective, it needs high DCs on spells, and i can't pump the DCs high for two schools at once. Enchantement is in itself a quite powerful but unique style of wizardry, just as Divination is. I plan on using the social skills (diplomacy, sense motive, etc.) to get things done, using what i learned through Divination as a blackmailing advantage (my character is lawful neutral). People always have secrets. I'd rather keep necromancy as i like some of its spells, and i want to keep at hand the opportunity to turn into a lich. The deal with psions is far easier to solve. I don't like the psionics, my DM doesn't either, so it's silently agreed there wouldn't be psions PCs, and most probably no psions NPCs either.
colm_l 09-26-05, 08:05 AM	Sure. Trouble is you're running out of options for schools to discard- especially if you take red wizard. Generally the following order is best for losing a school (the further down the more important the school). Necromancy - Save or die & Lich is overrated Evocation - Anything this can do conjuration does better Enchantment - Only has 2/3 really great spells but they really are that good (heroism, dominate & at low levels hypnotic pattern) Transmutation - Shapechange & polymorph Conjuration - teleport Illusion - Images & shadow spells Abjuration -Dispel magic A good feat if you intend sticking with illusion/Divination/enchantment & necromancy is Shadow weave magic.
Agifem 09-26-05, 08:46 AM	My character has a diplomat behavior. She prefers negociation, even if she has to resort to blackmail, rather than a physical confrontation. As such, it is much better to have fewer enemies. The Shadow Weave Magic feat is a bit in the way of that, making her the enemy of Mystra, which is not necessarly a good idea, especially for a save boost on three schools i am not focusing in (if i remember correctly, Divination is unaffected by this feat). *shakes fist* If only there was 12 schools of magic ! Thanks for all the tips though ! :) Are there any tips for some prestige classes fitting the concept of a diviner ?
Funny Slaughter 09-26-05, 09:14 AM	for the school: diss evocation. you really don't need it. for the PrC: divine oracle of course. unfortunately you need to be a cleric then ;) loremaster would fit i think. get more skills and especially some nice abilities. be sure to count your scribe scroll bonus feat for the reqs. for your social interactions maybe a single level of mindbender. all req skills are cross-class though so maybe the price is a bit steep. gs Funny
oxybe 09-26-05, 09:16 AM	really? i was sure that an arcane spellcaster was able to be a divine oracle... although it was made for the clerical branch in particular
colm_l 09-26-05, 09:43 AM	really? i was sure that an arcane spellcaster was able to be a divine oracle... although it was made for the clerical branch in particular Arcane can qualify. The prereq is 3 divination spells -not 3 divine spells
colm_l 09-26-05, 09:49 AM	My character has a diplomat behavior. She prefers negociation, even if she has to resort to blackmail, rather than a physical confrontation. As such, it is much better to have fewer enemies. The Shadow Weave Magic feat is a bit in the way of that, making her the enemy of Mystra, which is not necessarly a good idea, especially for a save boost on three schools i am not focusing in (if i remember correctly, Divination is unaffected by this feat). Fair enough, arguable though. You will end up using 2/3 of those schools regularly anyway. Since there's only 3 core Div. spells with saving throws why not try ability focus: scry? +2 to all Scry DC's
Agifem 09-27-05, 03:18 AM	The Divine Oracle can be taken by an arcane spellcaster, although she is still linked somehow to a Deity. What is that "ability focus : scry" ? Which book is it in ? The Divine Oracle gets something very similar, with its Oracle domain powers. By the way, i've found a very interesting feat in Complete Adventurer : Insightful reflexes. It replaces dexterity by intelligence when calculating reflex saves. Couple that with the evasion-like ability of the Divine Oracle, and i'll never take damage from fireballs ;)
slade_caizer 09-27-05, 03:39 AM	Hrmm...the crafty diplomat sort... I love it. Deciding to lose the two Es (Enchantment & Evocation)? Cool. That's very likely how I'd go. Whatever you do...take one level of Mindbender since you'll be the social sort anyway. What better way to blackmail people is there than by impersonating their conscience? [Edit: Nevermind...you can't cast Charm Person anyway...]
colm_l 09-27-05, 04:24 AM	What is that "ability focus : scry" ? Which book is it in ? The Divine Oracle gets something very similar, with its Oracle domain powers. Ability focus is a feat generally used for monsters that gives a special attack an extra +2 DC. By RAW spells are a special attack. By good taste - people only really apply it to a single spell or narrow band of spells
Agifem 09-27-05, 04:34 AM	Hrmm...the crafty diplomat sort... I love it. Deciding to lose the two Es (Enchantment & Evocation)? Cool. That's very likely how I'd go. Whatever you do...take one level of Mindbender since you'll be the social sort anyway. What better way to blackmail people is there than by impersonating their conscience? [Edit: Nevermind...you can't cast Charm Person anyway...] Well, there's a couple of feats from Lost Empires of Faerun (if i remember correctly) that allow me to use spells from a prohibited school. I'll need to check the mindbender PrC, but isn't it the one that looks like an overspecialized enchanter ? If so, it's an interesting career path. Thanks for the input