Build help for a lvl 4 Sorc? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Build help for a lvl 4 Sorc? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Viper2
09-05-06, 09:31 PM Thus far I have:

Feats:
Improved Initiative
Arcane Mastery
? - Heighten Spell's looking like the choice here cuz I can't take Searing Spell since I'm not allowed to use the environment books... whats the feat that lets you change energy type?

Spells Known: (Save DC = 14 + Spell Level)
0-Level (6/day): Daze, Detect Magic, Launch Bolt (Spell Compendium pg 130), Light, Ray of Frost
1-Level (7/day): Burning Hands, Mage Armor, Magic Missile
2-Level (4/day): Scorching Ray

I want to be mostly a blaster sor,c but with some fallback options to ensure versatility, but probably no more than one such spell a level, assuming I'm up to 2+ known spells for a particular level. Any advice?
runestar
09-06-06, 01:26 AM Spell focus and arcane mastery seem useless at this point, perhaps swap them out for other feats which are of more use? Maybe point blank shot to help with your scorching ray?

You have too many damage spells. Magic missile isn't really worth it until at least 5th lv, IMO, so maybe swap it out for a battlefield control spell like grease or colour spray?

What are your stats? Race?
dvlsadvct
09-06-06, 11:48 AM I would drop Arcane mastery and add in empower or heighten, then I would take energy substitution; acid and make my way into elemental savant.
MageWeasel
09-06-06, 12:28 PM You may be a bit heavy on the fire spells. If you have to fight somthing with fire resistance, your ray of frost/magic missile won't help much at this point. There's a level 2 spell called blast of force (compendium) that could benifit you.

Spell focus is only helpful for spells that allow saves, which you only have one of at this point. You may consider learning Eagles Splender at some point which is useful for boosting your save DC's should you find it nesseccary.

I agree with DVL that you ought to drop Arcane mastery in favor of metamagic of some sort. Although I'm not a big fan of E. Savants; seems like putting all yer eggs in one basket.
solbergb
09-06-06, 04:36 PM You need more variety in your spells.

Right now you have two options:

Mage Armor

Do damage to single enemy (or maybe a couple if they're very close to you and very close together)

You need to diversify your mix to include a bit of the following:

area direct damage
battlefield control
arcane debuff (save or XXX that the divine caster can't do)
arcane buff (stuff the divine caster can't do)
divination
arcane mobility (haste, fly, teleport type spells)
utility
self-defense (this is the only category you've got a spell in)

With your arcane mastery feat, Dispel magic (or any other spell
with a caster level check) should be on your shortlist.

Whatever you do, don't spend any more of your level 5-7 spells known
on "do damage to a single target" spells. Take your next 6 noncantrip
spells in other stuff first. To keep your blaster focus, swap burning hands for fireball at level 6, netting yourself another L1 spell to get one of the other above categories (and cover your area damage needs).

You really should also consider not spending any feats on anything other than metamagic for the forseeable future. Empower spell is almost a must for any "blaster" sorcerer, usually by level 6, and by level 9 at latest.

Consider searing spell (sandstorm) if you wish to continue the fire focus. Or possibly nonlethal substitution (fire) or energy substitution (fire). Many of the best elemental damage spells are fire, so it usually works better to invest a metamagic feat into mutating those spells rather than to try to duplicate the coverage with nonfire spells. Sculpt spell is almost always useful for a sorcerer. Other metamagic depends on your exact spell mix (split ray, chain spell, enlarge spell depende heavily on your spells for if they are worthwhile) or on your campaign environment (silent spell is a godsend in some campaigns and not in others, etc)

I disagree that magic missile won't get the job done vs fire resistant critters. It stacks up pretty well to scorching ray, burning hands and even fireball on single targets (because it never misses, and there is no save). If he lacked the spell I'd have a concern there, but he's got it. Arcane mastery will help some with the SR critters, but some battlefield control spells (SR=no) will help more. Greased and glitterdusted golems don't cause most parties much difficulty, nor (at higher levels) do those stuck behind a wall of force, or slipping around blind in a sleet storm.
Viper2
09-06-06, 10:11 PM Well apparently I'm only allowed spells from the PHB, Complete series, Races series, and Book of Exalted Deeds (which I don't think applies). So if is in the compendium it better be in one of the other books. I had to take out Launch Bolt for Read Magic.

I didn't want to take metamagic feats yet because what am I going to do, cast empowered Ray of Frost? o.0 I can see taking Extend Spell for buff spells, but I really want to be a blaster first and utility second.

Heh, kinda missed that part about Spell Focus... this is my first magic-wielding character but still, dunno how I missed that those spells didn't have DC's to begin with.
solbergb
09-06-06, 10:34 PM The thing about sorcerers and metamagic is that you don't get a lot of feats.

It is a LONG time between level 6 and 9, and between level 9 and 12.

Meanwhile in the 6-12 time period, very suddenly a lot of metamagic feats look pretty good....more than three.

Therefore, it is quite common for a sorcerer to pick up his first metamagic feat at level 3 or even earlier.

Empower isn't normally taken till level 6 (when empowered magic missiles, ray of enfeeble, lesser orbs or whatever obviate the need for a L3 single target zap) but is almost always taken by level 9 for a blaster mage (empowered scorching rays and fireballs in the level 8-12 range are just too good).

That means your level 6 feat is locked down. Note also that some useful feats require metamagic already, and if you wait until 6 to get those, you don't get the useful metamagic till level 9 (sudden maximize, for example, or nonlethal substitution).

This means you either stop getting any other kind of feat after level 3, or you get your metamagic early. I tend to prefer early metamagic - many of the nice feats need high concentration checks or BAB or whatever and must be taken later - and also you need to get used to using metamagic. (doing without the move action takes practice, as does the habit of thought that lets you recognize the best times to use metamagic, instead of just a higher level spell)

Silent spell, sculpt spell and enlarge spell are all fairly useful to take at level 3, you can use your L2 slots for metamagicked versions of L1 spells (sculpted grease or enlarged grease can both make the spell more useful). Enlarge and silent can be decently useful at level 1 too, extending the reach of your mage hand or letting you do ghost sounds without giving away that you're casting anything.

Searing spell is a good example. If you'd taken it at level 3, you'd be already able to make your burning hands roast folks in spite of their elemental resistance. If it has a metamagic prereq (I don't remember) this might mean starting out with empower spell, if you don't have any "+1" or "+0" metamagics you want more.

You won't know how nice metamagic is until you have some. It's nothing at all like how it works with prep casters, it's there at your fingertips when weird situations come up that make it useful. A prep caster needs to predict that he'll need it on a given day,and thus most rarely have more than 1-2 spells prepped for each feat they have. A spont caster will have some day where he never uses, say, silent spell, and another where he fires nearly his entire rack silent (generally to be subtle, but sometimes you're fighting at the bard acadamy or the novitiate temple where silence spells are spammed at you - or you're fighting "blasphemy-monsters" and want to cast in a sonic-free zone)

Extend spell, IIRC, is useless for a blaster sorc - you just recast any buffs or utility spells you happen to know, as they're needed. You can generally run them 24x7 and still have enough slots for as much combat as you're likely to see. It's better for prep casters who don't want to lock down additional spell slots.
Viper2
09-08-06, 04:02 AM EDIT - Nevermind, but what are some of the +0 or +1 metamagic feats outside of the PHB and Complete Arcane that would be useful?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Viper2 09-05-06, 09:31 PM	Thus far I have: Feats: Improved Initiative Arcane Mastery ? - Heighten Spell's looking like the choice here cuz I can't take Searing Spell since I'm not allowed to use the environment books... whats the feat that lets you change energy type? Spells Known: (Save DC = 14 + Spell Level) 0-Level (6/day): Daze, Detect Magic, Launch Bolt (Spell Compendium pg 130), Light, Ray of Frost 1-Level (7/day): Burning Hands, Mage Armor, Magic Missile 2-Level (4/day): Scorching Ray I want to be mostly a blaster sor,c but with some fallback options to ensure versatility, but probably no more than one such spell a level, assuming I'm up to 2+ known spells for a particular level. Any advice?
runestar 09-06-06, 01:26 AM	Spell focus and arcane mastery seem useless at this point, perhaps swap them out for other feats which are of more use? Maybe point blank shot to help with your scorching ray? You have too many damage spells. Magic missile isn't really worth it until at least 5th lv, IMO, so maybe swap it out for a battlefield control spell like grease or colour spray? What are your stats? Race?
dvlsadvct 09-06-06, 11:48 AM	I would drop Arcane mastery and add in empower or heighten, then I would take energy substitution; acid and make my way into elemental savant.
MageWeasel 09-06-06, 12:28 PM	You may be a bit heavy on the fire spells. If you have to fight somthing with fire resistance, your ray of frost/magic missile won't help much at this point. There's a level 2 spell called blast of force (compendium) that could benifit you. Spell focus is only helpful for spells that allow saves, which you only have one of at this point. You may consider learning Eagles Splender at some point which is useful for boosting your save DC's should you find it nesseccary. I agree with DVL that you ought to drop Arcane mastery in favor of metamagic of some sort. Although I'm not a big fan of E. Savants; seems like putting all yer eggs in one basket.
solbergb 09-06-06, 04:36 PM	You need more variety in your spells. Right now you have two options: Mage Armor Do damage to single enemy (or maybe a couple if they're very close to you and very close together) You need to diversify your mix to include a bit of the following: area direct damage battlefield control arcane debuff (save or XXX that the divine caster can't do) arcane buff (stuff the divine caster can't do) divination arcane mobility (haste, fly, teleport type spells) utility self-defense (this is the only category you've got a spell in) With your arcane mastery feat, Dispel magic (or any other spell with a caster level check) should be on your shortlist. Whatever you do, don't spend any more of your level 5-7 spells known on "do damage to a single target" spells. Take your next 6 noncantrip spells in other stuff first. To keep your blaster focus, swap burning hands for fireball at level 6, netting yourself another L1 spell to get one of the other above categories (and cover your area damage needs). You really should also consider not spending any feats on anything other than metamagic for the forseeable future. Empower spell is almost a must for any "blaster" sorcerer, usually by level 6, and by level 9 at latest. Consider searing spell (sandstorm) if you wish to continue the fire focus. Or possibly nonlethal substitution (fire) or energy substitution (fire). Many of the best elemental damage spells are fire, so it usually works better to invest a metamagic feat into mutating those spells rather than to try to duplicate the coverage with nonfire spells. Sculpt spell is almost always useful for a sorcerer. Other metamagic depends on your exact spell mix (split ray, chain spell, enlarge spell depende heavily on your spells for if they are worthwhile) or on your campaign environment (silent spell is a godsend in some campaigns and not in others, etc) I disagree that magic missile won't get the job done vs fire resistant critters. It stacks up pretty well to scorching ray, burning hands and even fireball on single targets (because it never misses, and there is no save). If he lacked the spell I'd have a concern there, but he's got it. Arcane mastery will help some with the SR critters, but some battlefield control spells (SR=no) will help more. Greased and glitterdusted golems don't cause most parties much difficulty, nor (at higher levels) do those stuck behind a wall of force, or slipping around blind in a sleet storm.
Viper2 09-06-06, 10:11 PM	Well apparently I'm only allowed spells from the PHB, Complete series, Races series, and Book of Exalted Deeds (which I don't think applies). So if is in the compendium it better be in one of the other books. I had to take out Launch Bolt for Read Magic. I didn't want to take metamagic feats yet because what am I going to do, cast empowered Ray of Frost? o.0 I can see taking Extend Spell for buff spells, but I really want to be a blaster first and utility second. Heh, kinda missed that part about Spell Focus... this is my first magic-wielding character but still, dunno how I missed that those spells didn't have DC's to begin with.
solbergb 09-06-06, 10:34 PM	The thing about sorcerers and metamagic is that you don't get a lot of feats. It is a LONG time between level 6 and 9, and between level 9 and 12. Meanwhile in the 6-12 time period, very suddenly a lot of metamagic feats look pretty good....more than three. Therefore, it is quite common for a sorcerer to pick up his first metamagic feat at level 3 or even earlier. Empower isn't normally taken till level 6 (when empowered magic missiles, ray of enfeeble, lesser orbs or whatever obviate the need for a L3 single target zap) but is almost always taken by level 9 for a blaster mage (empowered scorching rays and fireballs in the level 8-12 range are just too good). That means your level 6 feat is locked down. Note also that some useful feats require metamagic already, and if you wait until 6 to get those, you don't get the useful metamagic till level 9 (sudden maximize, for example, or nonlethal substitution). This means you either stop getting any other kind of feat after level 3, or you get your metamagic early. I tend to prefer early metamagic - many of the nice feats need high concentration checks or BAB or whatever and must be taken later - and also you need to get used to using metamagic. (doing without the move action takes practice, as does the habit of thought that lets you recognize the best times to use metamagic, instead of just a higher level spell) Silent spell, sculpt spell and enlarge spell are all fairly useful to take at level 3, you can use your L2 slots for metamagicked versions of L1 spells (sculpted grease or enlarged grease can both make the spell more useful). Enlarge and silent can be decently useful at level 1 too, extending the reach of your mage hand or letting you do ghost sounds without giving away that you're casting anything. Searing spell is a good example. If you'd taken it at level 3, you'd be already able to make your burning hands roast folks in spite of their elemental resistance. If it has a metamagic prereq (I don't remember) this might mean starting out with empower spell, if you don't have any "+1" or "+0" metamagics you want more. You won't know how nice metamagic is until you have some. It's nothing at all like how it works with prep casters, it's there at your fingertips when weird situations come up that make it useful. A prep caster needs to predict that he'll need it on a given day,and thus most rarely have more than 1-2 spells prepped for each feat they have. A spont caster will have some day where he never uses, say, silent spell, and another where he fires nearly his entire rack silent (generally to be subtle, but sometimes you're fighting at the bard acadamy or the novitiate temple where silence spells are spammed at you - or you're fighting "blasphemy-monsters" and want to cast in a sonic-free zone) Extend spell, IIRC, is useless for a blaster sorc - you just recast any buffs or utility spells you happen to know, as they're needed. You can generally run them 24x7 and still have enough slots for as much combat as you're likely to see. It's better for prep casters who don't want to lock down additional spell slots.
Viper2 09-08-06, 04:02 AM	EDIT - Nevermind, but what are some of the +0 or +1 metamagic feats outside of the PHB and Complete Arcane that would be useful?