Post/Author/DateTime	Post
findingfreedom 09-11-05, 12:51 PM	Hi everyone, I'm getting ready to play in a new campaign Tuesday and want to play a rogue/Warlock/Telflammer Shadowlord/Arcan Trickster. I've gotten the basic build from 'Eytan' Warlock 6/Rogue 3/TShL 5/Arcane Trickster 6 or Warlock 6/Rogue 1/Spellthief 1/TShL 5/Arcane Trickster 7 But I'm having trouble understanding the build! So if I'm stuck using daggers after I teleport, how do I maximaze that attack? 2 weapon fighting obviously, but I'm not doing touch attack like my eldritch blast - it's a regular attack and the BAB is awful! So I'm completely lost. I want to be led by the hand if anyone is kind enough. Ability scores, feats, and really anything else would be great. Thanks, :D findingfreedom
Penguin Master 09-11-05, 05:22 PM	What were you exactly trying to accomplish here? Were you trying to make a rogueish type character that can cast spells as a secondary ability, or a spellcaster that can be sneaky?
findingfreedom 09-11-05, 06:23 PM	I like the warlock powers, but logically- branching to a prestige class is smart because I maintain most of those powers, as well as gain more than I lose. So yes, I suppose I want a spellcaster with skills. I'm planning on taking able learner....
Penguin Master 09-11-05, 06:35 PM	Ok. knowing that, why is Telflammar Shadowlord in there, I don't see it's purpose.
K 09-11-05, 07:28 PM	So, you've got a few problems to start. Warlock 6 will get you Flee the Scene, but technically that won't get you the prereqs for Telfammar Shadowlord. It has a D-door-like effect, but the Shadowlord specifically calls for D-door. Second, your Arcane Tricker levels can only be added to your Warlock levels, which means that while you get new Invocations Known progression, no one knows if you get the New Invocation class ability. Most people assume the answer is "no."
TychoEnoch 09-11-05, 07:35 PM	So, you've got a few problems to start. Warlock 6 will get you Flee the Scene, but technically that won't get you the prereqs for Telfammar Shadowlord. It has a D-door-like effect, but the Shadowlord specifically calls for D-door. Flee the Scene is a modified Dimension Door; it's Dimension Door + another effect. It is not an unreasonable interpretation that the text ' would include all properties of [i]Dimension Door, including filling prerequisites. Second, your Arcane Tricker levels can only be added to your Warlock levels, which means that while you get new Invocations Known progression, no one knows if you get the New Invocation class ability. Most people assume the answer is "no." This is not the case. From the Warlock FAQ, by Rich Baker: Q: Is the statements on page 18 of the Complete Arcane intended to prohibit a Warlock who enters a Prestige Class that adds +1 to his caster level to not allow him to gain access to high grade invocations? A: The intention is that when a warlock's "+1 level of spellcasting class" improves, he should gain access to better invocations as if a non-multiclassed warlock would have at that level. -- ACSD
Penguin Master 09-11-05, 07:36 PM	EDIT: Well then the New invocation should not be a class ability but an inherent step up in power such as a wizards progress from 1st to 9th levels in spells
K 09-11-05, 08:07 PM	Flee the Scene is a modified Dimension Door; it's Dimension Door + another effect. It is not an unreasonable interpretation that the text ' would include all properties of [i]Dimension Door, including filling prerequisites. No, its not unreasonable, and individual DMs might rule in your favor. Its also not clear at all, so one should not base an entire build off of it. This is not the case. From the Warlock FAQ, by Rich Baker: Q: Is the statements on page 18 of the Complete Arcane intended to prohibit a Warlock who enters a Prestige Class that adds +1 to his caster level to not allow him to gain access to high grade invocations? A: The intention is that when a warlock's "+1 level of spellcasting class" improves, he should gain access to better invocations as if a non-multiclassed warlock would have at that level. -- ACSD Until I see a WOTC errata or official FAQ, I wouldn't base a build on "a message on a board with stuff that some guy says Rich Baker said."
findingfreedom 09-11-05, 08:25 PM	Shadowlord is in there because it gives 3rd levels spells to qualify for arcane trickster, as well as 6 skills per level and the shadow pounce ability, which allows for a full attack after a transportation. But now that I'm looking at it, I don't think I'm going to stick with this build. I'm probably going for warlock - rogue - Daggerspell mage. Thanks, Findingfreedom
K 09-12-05, 03:00 AM	Shadowlord is in there because it gives 3rd levels spells to qualify for arcane trickster, as well as 6 skills per level and the shadow pounce ability, which allows for a full attack after a transportation. But now that I'm looking at it, I don't think I'm going to stick with this build. I'm probably going for warlock - rogue - Daggerspell mage. Thanks, Findingfreedom Its not a bad idea, even if you are only gaining the Extra Invocations and sneak dice out of Daggerspell mage (all other class abilities are useless to you).
Tedly224 09-12-05, 03:07 AM	The problem with Daggerspell Mage is that it doesn't have the classic trapfinding skills as class skills for it. The same of course goes for Warlock. I'd recommend this - Be a human, take able learner, be a level 1 Rogue to start. Jump into Warlock and then do what you need to get into Daggerspell mage as you go. Definately grab level 4 as a warlock ASAP for the Take 10 on use magic device. If you do go human, be a buddy to an elf and then get into Ruathar PrC from Races of the Wild. It has good skill points, d6 hit dice, spell progression and special abilities like nightvision and other elven abilities to save on taking Invocations to help in those areas. Or you can skip it if it doesn't look that good to you.
findingfreedom 09-12-05, 04:06 AM	The problem with Daggerspell Mage is that it doesn't have the classic trapfinding skills as class skills for it. The same of course goes for Warlock. I'd recommend this - Be a human, take able learner, be a level 1 Rogue to start. Jump into Warlock and then do what you need to get into Daggerspell mage as you go. Definately grab level 4 as a warlock ASAP for the Take 10 on use magic device. If you do go human, be a buddy to an elf and then get into Ruathar PrC from Races of the Wild. It has good skill points, d6 hit dice, spell progression and special abilities like nightvision and other elven abilities to save on taking Invocations to help in those areas. Or you can skip it if it doesn't look that good to you. Haha, I love it Tedly! Thanks for the advice!