Build ideas for my Hin Disciple? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Build ideas for my Hin Disciple? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yokinobu
08-11-06, 08:37 AM For those who don't know, the Hin Disciple is a set of halfling sub levels for a monk. I got it from this web enhancement. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)

Anyway, I'm trying to make a good monk build for it. I'm lookin at the 1st and 6th level substitutions.
The 1st offers Underfoot Combat, which let's you move through or into a large or larger foes square without provoking an AoO. When in the foes square, you have a +4 cover bonus to AC.

The 6th offers Blur of Motion, where against a large or larger foe you can take Total Defense and still make an attack.
All this considered, I looked at the Giantbane Tactical Feat. Duck Underneath gives you a +4 dodge bonus when using total defense a against a much larger creature. Total defense that you can still make an attack with thanks to Blur of Motion. What I am wondering is, does Death from Below offer you a free attack? As in, after that you may still take your normal actions for the round? Or does it count as a standard action?

Moving on, Climb Aboard let's you move into an opponents(2 sizes larger) square by actually climbing onto them, which penalizes them with -4 to attacks against you.

Underfoot Combat: You can move into or through a space occupied by a Larger or large foe without provoking attacks of opportunity. While you are in a square occupied by a Large or larger creature, you gain a +4 cover bonus to AC against all attacks, even those made by the creature whose space you occupy.

Since with Underfoot Combat you are supposed to be under the creature(I guess), and with Climb Aboard you are supposed to be on top of them, this may create issues from my DM. However, according to the wording they are compatible. I like to think of it being on the limbs of the creature AND under it, like clinging to the inner thigh or something. :noway:

This char centers around fighting Large or larger foes. I need suggestions on good feat and PrC's that maximize these strengths, as well as any well-rounded monk advice.

Thanks.
Surreal
08-11-06, 03:30 PM I've had a similar build concept floating around that I've never really fleshed out.

From my understanding, Death From Below does give you that extra attack in addition to your normal actions. I would consider it part of the Duck Underneath free action. A stingy DM might count that attack as one of your AoOs, but that's about it.

Here's my rough notes on the build I was working on: (essentially trying to make the most of the halfling monk and paladin substitution levels from CoV, and the monk sub levels from RoTW)
Strongheart Hafling Monk (Hin Disciple) 10/Paladin (Wary Swordknight) 10

1 M1 ___, ___ Hin: Underfoot Combat (B)
2 P1
3 M2 Ascetic Knight, Hin: Improved Trip (B)
4 P2
5 M3
6 P3 ___, Wary: Tougher Than Small
7 M4
8 P4 ??Wary: Uncanny Dodge?? replaces Turn Undead
9 M5 Confound the Big Folk
10 P5
11 M6 Hin: Blur of Motion
12 P6 Giantbane, Wary: Haste
13 M7 RoTW: Size Matters Not
14 P7
15 M8 ___
16 P8
17 M9 Hin: The Harder They Fall
18 P9 ___
19 M10
20 P10

optional feats:
Weapon Finesse
Improved Grapple, Clever Wrestling
Agile Athlete (with climb aboard from Giantbane which uses climb instead of grapple check)
Sand Snare
divine feats?

skills: max out climb

Monk 10: 7, 7/7/7
Pal 10: 10, 7/2/2 + cha
totals: BAB 17, saves 14/9/9 + cha

or... Monk 9/Paladin 8/Beastmaster 1/Halfling Outrider 2
animal 9, mount 10
same as above but with a pretty strong companion
Yokinobu
08-11-06, 07:35 PM Wary Swordknight! I never would have thought of that. Tougher Than Small makes The Harder They Fall actually possible. Does Size Matters Not have a similair effect?

Good build. Thanks for the suggestions!
Surreal
08-11-06, 09:20 PM Tougher than Small is like a pseudo-powerful build. Size Matters not simply gives you a bonus to your grapples that stack with Improved Grapple. I think altogether that's +12 more than what a "normal" halfling grapple check would be.

You can probably pick up Stunning Fist later on in the build as well. I think there's also an incarnum feat that boosts your healing abilities for both monk and paladin, but I don't know if it's worth it (I'm guessing not... I'm not really familiar with incarnum).

random sidenote: see if you can get your DM to let Ascetic Knight also stack your paladin/monk levels for lay on hands and wholeness of body. It's just one of those things that makes sense.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yokinobu 08-11-06, 08:37 AM	For those who don't know, the Hin Disciple is a set of halfling sub levels for a monk. I got it from this web enhancement. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) Anyway, I'm trying to make a good monk build for it. I'm lookin at the 1st and 6th level substitutions. The 1st offers Underfoot Combat, which let's you move through or into a large or larger foes square without provoking an AoO. When in the foes square, you have a +4 cover bonus to AC. The 6th offers Blur of Motion, where against a large or larger foe you can take Total Defense and still make an attack. All this considered, I looked at the Giantbane Tactical Feat. Duck Underneath gives you a +4 dodge bonus when using total defense a against a much larger creature. Total defense that you can still make an attack with thanks to Blur of Motion. What I am wondering is, does Death from Below offer you a free attack? As in, after that you may still take your normal actions for the round? Or does it count as a standard action? Moving on, Climb Aboard let's you move into an opponents(2 sizes larger) square by actually climbing onto them, which penalizes them with -4 to attacks against you. Underfoot Combat: You can move into or through a space occupied by a Larger or large foe without provoking attacks of opportunity. While you are in a square occupied by a Large or larger creature, you gain a +4 cover bonus to AC against all attacks, even those made by the creature whose space you occupy. Since with Underfoot Combat you are supposed to be under the creature(I guess), and with Climb Aboard you are supposed to be on top of them, this may create issues from my DM. However, according to the wording they are compatible. I like to think of it being on the limbs of the creature AND under it, like clinging to the inner thigh or something. :noway: This char centers around fighting Large or larger foes. I need suggestions on good feat and PrC's that maximize these strengths, as well as any well-rounded monk advice. Thanks.
Surreal 08-11-06, 03:30 PM	I've had a similar build concept floating around that I've never really fleshed out. From my understanding, Death From Below does give you that extra attack in addition to your normal actions. I would consider it part of the Duck Underneath free action. A stingy DM might count that attack as one of your AoOs, but that's about it. Here's my rough notes on the build I was working on: (essentially trying to make the most of the halfling monk and paladin substitution levels from CoV, and the monk sub levels from RoTW) Strongheart Hafling Monk (Hin Disciple) 10/Paladin (Wary Swordknight) 10 1 M1 ___, ___ Hin: Underfoot Combat (B) 2 P1 3 M2 Ascetic Knight, Hin: Improved Trip (B) 4 P2 5 M3 6 P3 ___, Wary: Tougher Than Small 7 M4 8 P4 ??Wary: Uncanny Dodge?? replaces Turn Undead 9 M5 Confound the Big Folk 10 P5 11 M6 Hin: Blur of Motion 12 P6 Giantbane, Wary: Haste 13 M7 RoTW: Size Matters Not 14 P7 15 M8 ___ 16 P8 17 M9 Hin: The Harder They Fall 18 P9 ___ 19 M10 20 P10 optional feats: Weapon Finesse Improved Grapple, Clever Wrestling Agile Athlete (with climb aboard from Giantbane which uses climb instead of grapple check) Sand Snare divine feats? skills: max out climb Monk 10: 7, 7/7/7 Pal 10: 10, 7/2/2 + cha totals: BAB 17, saves 14/9/9 + cha or... Monk 9/Paladin 8/Beastmaster 1/Halfling Outrider 2 animal 9, mount 10 same as above but with a pretty strong companion
Yokinobu 08-11-06, 07:35 PM	Wary Swordknight! I never would have thought of that. Tougher Than Small makes The Harder They Fall actually possible. Does Size Matters Not have a similair effect? Good build. Thanks for the suggestions!
Surreal 08-11-06, 09:20 PM	Tougher than Small is like a pseudo-powerful build. Size Matters not simply gives you a bonus to your grapples that stack with Improved Grapple. I think altogether that's +12 more than what a "normal" halfling grapple check would be. You can probably pick up Stunning Fist later on in the build as well. I think there's also an incarnum feat that boosts your healing abilities for both monk and paladin, but I don't know if it's worth it (I'm guessing not... I'm not really familiar with incarnum). random sidenote: see if you can get your DM to let Ascetic Knight also stack your paladin/monk levels for lay on hands and wholeness of body. It's just one of those things that makes sense.