Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kobold Stew 09-11-05, 04:44 PM	Big Brains of the Boards, I'm trying to build a gnoll that can hold up against (in a gameplay context) allies and opponents of equal ECL. Someone that you'd want on your side, even though they were a gnoll. My preference is for core only, though if you think going to Completes/Races/Environments books helps, that's ok too (though that also makes the comparison tougher). I think I need some outside-the-box ideas, or at least different approaches, since I find this a real challenge. I can do it with Lizard folk (equal hit dice and LA), but Gnoll I find tough. Parameters: Let's assume a 32 point buy, ECL 12 (9 class levels), though my intention is for builds to be played from level 1 (ECL 4). I've had some ideas, but would like to see what we can come up with here. Thanks so much. KS
Gerdreg 09-11-05, 06:40 PM	I don't have time to throw a whole build out but take a look at the Flind (Gnoll) in MM3. Flinbars are still cool in 3.5. Also, there is a Gnoll only feat in MotW that gives you a bite attack (in additon to your normal attacks) while raging.
Kobold Stew 09-11-05, 07:42 PM	I don't have time to throw a whole build out but take a look at the Flind (Gnoll) in MM3. Flinbars are still cool in 3.5. Also, there is a Gnoll only feat in MotW that gives you a bite attack (in additon to your normal attacks) while raging. yeah, thanks. for those w/out MM3, Flind is here <http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040912b&page=3>. The stat boosts are I suspect easily worth the extra +1 LA (for a total of 2, still w/ 2 hit dice). Flinds I can build to be viable. Gnolls themselves, not so much.
Kobold Stew 09-12-05, 09:52 AM	Please? Anyone?
Gerdreg 09-12-05, 11:29 AM	I'll give it a go. As they lose 3 levels (2 HD and +1 LA) I would say they will make poor casters. Also with a +4 Str and +2 Con, a physical character seems like the right way to go. Gnoll Ferocity seems kinda unique so I will base the character around it. Gnoll Ferocity is useable in Rage or Frenzy so I think I will start out as a Barbarian. I don't wanna lose anymore BAB as a combat character, so I will try to stay with Full BAB PrCs. As you said you were looking for a character others would want to group with, I'll resist the urge to make a Frenzied Berserker. To continue Synergy with bite attacks, I think Primeval is a strong choice. My build will look like this... Gnoll 3/ Barbarian 7/ Primeval 10 Feats: 2 required feats for Primeval, Gnoll Ferocity, Improved Natural Attack x3 (bite, claw, and talon), Multiattack The most brutal Primeval Form has to be the Megaraptor (errata makes it a Large creature). It has a Talon, 2 Claws, and a Bite full attack action, and can use them all on a Charge with Pounce. It gets a +10 Str, +10 Con, +4 Dex, +6 Natural AC, and these stats will also be boosted as go up as you level in the class. That would be a darn powerful character in any campaign, with 4 attacks per round and a Str that will be in the mid 40s without magic. For backstory I would say he was from primitive Gnoll tribe that worships the Megaraptor as the ultimate predator. Enjoy.
Avanter 09-12-05, 12:45 PM	I had a flind gnoll fighter....go into exotic weapon master for one level and get uncanny blow with the flind bar. You will be a machine and doing FREE disarms whenever you threat! Get improved crit and disarm for free all day long! Av
Gerdreg 09-12-05, 01:37 PM	I had a flind gnoll fighter....go into exotic weapon master for one level and get uncanny blow with the flind bar. You will be a machine and doing FREE disarms whenever you threat! Get improved crit and disarm for free all day long! Av Yah, Flind Fighter EWM (maybe add Tempest if you wanna wield two) is a great build but I got the impression he didn't wanna go Flind, but plain Gnoll. For my Build above, Flind actually would not be as good because they are +2 LA, and wouldn't be able to finish Primeval before Epic.
PhaedrusXY 09-12-05, 02:30 PM	Core Only: Humanoid2/Barb2/Ranger3/HorizonWalker6 to start with. Go with a two-handed reach weapon (guisarme) + armor spikes (I always say that I think, lol). Losing two points of BAB because of your LA + HD stinks, but it is mostly made up for by the +4 Str and +2 Con. In the beginning, get some potions of Enlarge Person (luckily gnolls are humanoids, and so are still valid targets). Since tripping doesn't rely on BAB, it would probably be a good tactic to use. Of course, getting the 13 Int for Combat Expertise will not be fun. If you can, use either the variant barbarian Wolf Berzerker from UA, or the Wolf Berzerker Lodge feat from UE, to avoid having to take it. Of course, we're straying away from Core now...
Avanter 09-12-05, 06:30 PM	This is what he was.... Flind Gnoll 2/Paladin 5/EWM 1 Level Adjustment 2 STR-25 DEX-12 CON-22 INT-13 WIS-14 CHA-20 feats.. expertise, imp disarm (at 9th), power attack, divine might... this guy has uses his Flindbar Two Handed... 2d4+15 without any power attack or divine might, which he has 8 times a day, along with 2 smite evils! In one round, you can max power attack, smite and divine might for +13/+8 and do 2d4+40 point of damage to any evil doer who comes your way. You also make those sweet auto disarms when you threat, which you have +24 to you roll.. This guy had a +1 Adamite Flindbar of Impact..which is represetned by the above stats... he had a Celestial Dire Yak for a mount.. this guy went into Shining Blade affter this for the BAB and the extra damage.... Av
neilthrun 09-12-05, 08:13 PM	I think I need some outside-the-box ideas, or at least different approaches, since I find this a real challenge. I can do it with Lizard folk (equal hit dice and LA), but Gnoll I find tough. I do agree lizard folk is better. Although that hardly means a gnoll isn't viable, unless your DM is a crazy powergamer don't worry about it. Barbarian or Fighter is deffinatly the way to go. Although a gnoll samurai, exotic weapon master could be neat as well.
Kobold Stew 09-12-05, 11:34 PM	Thanks, all, for these ideas. Keep em coming! PhaedurusXY: Your suggestion is similar to the build which prompted this thread, which was Humanoid 2/Ranger 3/HW6 (=ECL 12): a hunter focussing on cleaving, ready to continue in HW, Assassin, or whatever These are helpful ideas. Thanks KS