Build my sister an Ice Mage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Build my sister an Ice Mage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Naanomi
02-03-07, 12:50 PM My sister is joining our game, she is an experienced RPer but not in the DnD setting, so she is asking help to build her character.

She says she wants to play an 'ice mage', she prefers sorcerer to wizard. She doesn't care what race, but she does want an "icy familiar instead of some animal".

The campaign is going epic fairly soon, so she will want one prestige class at 10th level in the build.

All books available, looking for any suggestions and spell choices. Last night we came up with this but I feel it could use some more work, and I'm not sure where to go with spell choices at all (sorcerers are not my usual choice in caster).

Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold (Rite of Draconic of Passage)
Sorcerer 1 – Feat: Dragonwrought Kobold
Sorcerer 2
Sorcerer 3 – Feat: Energy Substitution (Cold)
Sorcerer 4
Sorcerer (Planar) 5
Elemental Savant 1 – Feat: Frozen Magic (Greater Rite of Draconic Passage: DM Approval no feat required)
Elemental Savant 2
Elemental Savant 3
Elemental Savant 4 – Feat: Snow Casting
Frost Mage 1
Frost Mage 2
Frost Mage 3 – Winter’s Blast
Frost Mage 4
Frost Mage 5
Frost Mage 6 – Improved Familiar (OR Planar Familiar OR Dragon Familiar)
Frost Mage 7
Frost Mage 8
Frost Mage 9 – Eschew Material Component
Frost Mage 10
Elemental Savant 5

Familiar Thoughts are Winterwolf (To ride!), Ice Mephit, Small Ice Elemental, or White/Silver Dragon Wyrmling)

Thank you for your help and feedback!
Valdrax
02-03-07, 02:02 PM If you really want an icy companion and want to go the elemental route, but you're willing to give up 9th level spells, then Bonded Summoner from the Minatures Handbook is significantly better than Elemental Savant.

The two main downsides of the PrC are that it's a half-casting progression class and you take heavy ability damage if you super-familiar dies. The other is that there's no text that says you can be raised at 10th level when you become an elemental yourself. There is nothing in the description that prevents you from having a Cleric cast restoration on the ability damage, though.

The bonuses are and elemental familiar (that would grow to an elder elemental), all the immunities of being an Elemental Savant without the limitation of always having to apply Energy Substitution (Cold) on every spell, and the ability to polymorph into an elder elemental once per day for 10 hours.

As a house-rule, I'd ask your DM to allow you to use an Ice Paraelemental (from Manual of the Planes, which has a 3.5 update out on the web) instead of a Water Elemental for the bonded elemental familiar. It's far more appropriate for what you're trying to do.

Even taking just 5 levels of Bonded Summoner instead of Elemental Savant would grant you some immunities, a higher cold resistance, and a Huge elemental familiar in exchange for two levels of spell casting. I say it's a worthy trade.
Mister_Sinister
02-03-07, 02:02 PM Where is Frost Mage from, sorry? And I would say dragon for the familiar: they're really smart and useful companions, not to mention very powerful.

Furthermore, your build appears slightly off: Energy Sub needs another metamagic feat.

Aside from that, good job! Could you possibly post the 'numbers' for this build (ie caster level, saves, BAB?)
Naanomi
02-03-07, 02:32 PM Frost Mage is from Frostburn... Full casting, some free icy spells to 'spells known' list... some natural AR, Piercing Cold bonus feat, and eventually the cold subtype

Darn on the Energy Sub: Cold needing another metamagic... either have to switch to human and lose out on the good stat boost or delay entry into the prestige set.

I'm not too worried about the 'always on energy sub: cold' effect from Elemental Savant... half of the 'cold' damage will be force damage from the Planar Sub level, and I can Piercing Cold to ignore the resistances/immunities if I really need to.
BrutalMisery
02-03-07, 02:35 PM Belkar: "Well, I think there's one question we need definitively answered before we can even consider this mission: Is your sister, in fact, a hottie? Smoking, or otherwise?"

Sorry, had to (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0338.html)
Pinky's brain
02-03-07, 03:06 PM Even taking just 5 levels of Bonded Summoner instead of Elemental Savant would grant you some immunities, a higher cold resistance, and a Huge elemental familiar in exchange for two levels of spell casting. I say it's a worthy trade.Unfortunately, it's 3 ... putting 9th level spells out of reach till epic.
catharz
02-03-07, 03:39 PM Elemental savant is a messed up class. A water savant ends up being a blob of liquid water specialized in freezing things, rather than being anything icy. The first few levels of abilities aren't that great, and I'd avoid the class entirely, or at least until the character has all 10 levels of Frost Mage.

If being a kobold doesn't seem too stupid (some people might think that even a white dragon-descended kobold goes against the flavor they want), that's a good idea.

Regardless, I'd go with Sorcerer 5/Frost Mage 10. If the campaign goes past 15th level, you can start worrying about what to take next then. Archmage might be a good option, and would make use of Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Spell Focus (Evocation or Transmutation).
X-Codes
02-03-07, 05:08 PM You absolutely have to take the feat Cold Spell Specialization from Frostburn if you're playing a cold spell specialist. Once you are able, you then pick up the Control Weather spell to create the conditions under which you get the most damage.
Endarire
02-04-07, 03:46 AM Be an earth kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#earthKobolds ).

I second the notion to avoid elemental savant and instead vote mage of the arcane order, mindbender, fatespinner, or anything that gives you full arcane progression. Ruathar from Races of the Wild is a spiffy filler because it costs you nothing extra to enter.

-EE
FntsyWlkr
02-05-07, 03:48 PM FAMILIAR: dire bobcat?
I know you can have a bobcat, just ask the DM if she can have a DIRE bobcat ... just to ride.
WackyOne
02-05-07, 04:08 PM I have to suggest looking into the Wintehaunt of Iborigu class (maybe mixed with the Frostmage - enough Frostmage to get his empowered Piercing Cold, then all Winterhaunt).
She will need a single level of Cleric, but the PrC can increase arcane spellcasting - her cold spells become stronger, she becomes an Evil Cold Elemental, she can summon a big, bad, undead icy elemental (to ride?!)... and she would be revering a cool deity (the one that wants the new glacial age, incidentally dooming all the creation...)
Inkubus
02-05-07, 04:26 PM The Winternorn PrC (Dragonlance Towers of High Sorcery) is pretty cool, too. And it would fit perfectly...
Naanomi
02-05-07, 11:56 PM Alright, after some work she decided this is what we are going for....

House Rules:
*Feat not required for Greater Rite of the Dragon

Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold
Favored Soul 1/Sorcerer 4/Frost Mage 4/Winterhaunt 10/Sorcerer (Planar) '5'

Flaws: Feeble, Noncombative

Feats:
Starting: Dragonwrought (White Dragon)
Flaw: Snowcasting
Flaw: Chosen of Imborighu
Level 3: Frozen Magic
Level 6: Craft Wonderous Item
Level 9: Dragon Familiar (White Dragon)
Bonus: Piercing Cold
Level 12: Winter's Blast
Level 15: Eschew Material Component
Level 18: Cold Spell Specialization

Now... thoughts on spells to go along with this? Keeping in mind that all her cold damage dealing spells will ignore Cold Resistance for free, still do half damage to Cold Immune Creatures, and are 1/2 Force Damage, and do an extra 2d6/3d6 damage.... Ice Mage gives her 'Conjure Ice Beast I' free for what it is worth.
Wizu
02-06-07, 12:19 AM Alright, after some work she decided this is what we are going for....

House Rules:
*Feat not required for Greater Rite of the Dragon

Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold
Favored Soul 1/Sorcerer 4/Frost Mage 4/Winterhaunt 10/Sorcerer (Planar) '5'

Flaws: Feeble, Noncombative

Feats:
Starting: Dragonwrought (White Dragon)
Flaw: Snowcasting
Flaw: Chosen of Imborighu
Level 3: Frozen Magic
Level 6: Craft Wonderous Item
Level 9: Dragon Familiar (White Dragon)
Bonus: Piercing Cold
Level 12: Winter's Blast
Level 15: Eschew Material Component
Level 18: Cold Spell Specialization

Now... thoughts on spells to go along with this? Keeping in mind that all her cold damage dealing spells will ignore Cold Resistance for free, still do half damage to Cold Immune Creatures, and are 1/2 Force Damage, and do an extra 2d6/3d6 damage.... Ice Mage gives her 'Conjure Ice Beast I' free for what it is worth.

Uh, 5 levels of sorcerer in the end? They do have a mechanical purpose, riiight? I mean, that'd be just the best place to drop a filler 5 level class. Like for example fatespinner. =P
WackyOne
02-06-07, 03:45 AM Have you thought about Practiced Spellcaster, to get back at least the caster level you sacrificed (and, if you get it, maybe a level of Marshal for Cha to checks vs SR or initiative, your choice)?
Naanomi
02-06-07, 10:07 AM Uh, 5 levels of sorcerer in the end?

I was trying to say 'One last level of Sorcerer, which is the Planar Substitution Sorcerer 5 level'... didn't come across well I know... it changes half of all energy damage dealt into force damage, to help deal with incorporeal creatures and further boost damage against ice 'immune' creatures.
Wizu
02-06-07, 10:46 AM Check! Then its all well and good, carry on! =P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Naanomi 02-03-07, 12:50 PM	My sister is joining our game, she is an experienced RPer but not in the DnD setting, so she is asking help to build her character. She says she wants to play an 'ice mage', she prefers sorcerer to wizard. She doesn't care what race, but she does want an "icy familiar instead of some animal". The campaign is going epic fairly soon, so she will want one prestige class at 10th level in the build. All books available, looking for any suggestions and spell choices. Last night we came up with this but I feel it could use some more work, and I'm not sure where to go with spell choices at all (sorcerers are not my usual choice in caster). Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold (Rite of Draconic of Passage) Sorcerer 1 – Feat: Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer 2 Sorcerer 3 – Feat: Energy Substitution (Cold) Sorcerer 4 Sorcerer (Planar) 5 Elemental Savant 1 – Feat: Frozen Magic (Greater Rite of Draconic Passage: DM Approval no feat required) Elemental Savant 2 Elemental Savant 3 Elemental Savant 4 – Feat: Snow Casting Frost Mage 1 Frost Mage 2 Frost Mage 3 – Winter’s Blast Frost Mage 4 Frost Mage 5 Frost Mage 6 – Improved Familiar (OR Planar Familiar OR Dragon Familiar) Frost Mage 7 Frost Mage 8 Frost Mage 9 – Eschew Material Component Frost Mage 10 Elemental Savant 5 Familiar Thoughts are Winterwolf (To ride!), Ice Mephit, Small Ice Elemental, or White/Silver Dragon Wyrmling) Thank you for your help and feedback!
Valdrax 02-03-07, 02:02 PM	If you really want an icy companion and want to go the elemental route, but you're willing to give up 9th level spells, then Bonded Summoner from the Minatures Handbook is significantly better than Elemental Savant. The two main downsides of the PrC are that it's a half-casting progression class and you take heavy ability damage if you super-familiar dies. The other is that there's no text that says you can be raised at 10th level when you become an elemental yourself. There is nothing in the description that prevents you from having a Cleric cast restoration on the ability damage, though. The bonuses are and elemental familiar (that would grow to an elder elemental), all the immunities of being an Elemental Savant without the limitation of always having to apply Energy Substitution (Cold) on every spell, and the ability to polymorph into an elder elemental once per day for 10 hours. As a house-rule, I'd ask your DM to allow you to use an Ice Paraelemental (from Manual of the Planes, which has a 3.5 update out on the web) instead of a Water Elemental for the bonded elemental familiar. It's far more appropriate for what you're trying to do. Even taking just 5 levels of Bonded Summoner instead of Elemental Savant would grant you some immunities, a higher cold resistance, and a Huge elemental familiar in exchange for two levels of spell casting. I say it's a worthy trade.
Mister_Sinister 02-03-07, 02:02 PM	Where is Frost Mage from, sorry? And I would say dragon for the familiar: they're really smart and useful companions, not to mention very powerful. Furthermore, your build appears slightly off: Energy Sub needs another metamagic feat. Aside from that, good job! Could you possibly post the 'numbers' for this build (ie caster level, saves, BAB?)
Naanomi 02-03-07, 02:32 PM	Frost Mage is from Frostburn... Full casting, some free icy spells to 'spells known' list... some natural AR, Piercing Cold bonus feat, and eventually the cold subtype Darn on the Energy Sub: Cold needing another metamagic... either have to switch to human and lose out on the good stat boost or delay entry into the prestige set. I'm not too worried about the 'always on energy sub: cold' effect from Elemental Savant... half of the 'cold' damage will be force damage from the Planar Sub level, and I can Piercing Cold to ignore the resistances/immunities if I really need to.
BrutalMisery 02-03-07, 02:35 PM	Belkar: "Well, I think there's one question we need definitively answered before we can even consider this mission: Is your sister, in fact, a hottie? Smoking, or otherwise?" Sorry, had to (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0338.html)
Pinky's brain 02-03-07, 03:06 PM	Even taking just 5 levels of Bonded Summoner instead of Elemental Savant would grant you some immunities, a higher cold resistance, and a Huge elemental familiar in exchange for two levels of spell casting. I say it's a worthy trade.Unfortunately, it's 3 ... putting 9th level spells out of reach till epic.
catharz 02-03-07, 03:39 PM	Elemental savant is a messed up class. A water savant ends up being a blob of liquid water specialized in freezing things, rather than being anything icy. The first few levels of abilities aren't that great, and I'd avoid the class entirely, or at least until the character has all 10 levels of Frost Mage. If being a kobold doesn't seem too stupid (some people might think that even a white dragon-descended kobold goes against the flavor they want), that's a good idea. Regardless, I'd go with Sorcerer 5/Frost Mage 10. If the campaign goes past 15th level, you can start worrying about what to take next then. Archmage might be a good option, and would make use of Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Spell Focus (Evocation or Transmutation).
X-Codes 02-03-07, 05:08 PM	You absolutely have to take the feat Cold Spell Specialization from Frostburn if you're playing a cold spell specialist. Once you are able, you then pick up the Control Weather spell to create the conditions under which you get the most damage.
Endarire 02-04-07, 03:46 AM	Be an earth kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#earthKobolds ). I second the notion to avoid elemental savant and instead vote mage of the arcane order, mindbender, fatespinner, or anything that gives you full arcane progression. Ruathar from Races of the Wild is a spiffy filler because it costs you nothing extra to enter. -EE
FntsyWlkr 02-05-07, 03:48 PM	FAMILIAR: dire bobcat? I know you can have a bobcat, just ask the DM if she can have a DIRE bobcat ... just to ride.
WackyOne 02-05-07, 04:08 PM	I have to suggest looking into the Wintehaunt of Iborigu class (maybe mixed with the Frostmage - enough Frostmage to get his empowered Piercing Cold, then all Winterhaunt). She will need a single level of Cleric, but the PrC can increase arcane spellcasting - her cold spells become stronger, she becomes an Evil Cold Elemental, she can summon a big, bad, undead icy elemental (to ride?!)... and she would be revering a cool deity (the one that wants the new glacial age, incidentally dooming all the creation...)
Inkubus 02-05-07, 04:26 PM	The Winternorn PrC (Dragonlance Towers of High Sorcery) is pretty cool, too. And it would fit perfectly...
Naanomi 02-05-07, 11:56 PM	Alright, after some work she decided this is what we are going for.... House Rules: *Feat not required for Greater Rite of the Dragon Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold Favored Soul 1/Sorcerer 4/Frost Mage 4/Winterhaunt 10/Sorcerer (Planar) '5' Flaws: Feeble, Noncombative Feats: Starting: Dragonwrought (White Dragon) Flaw: Snowcasting Flaw: Chosen of Imborighu Level 3: Frozen Magic Level 6: Craft Wonderous Item Level 9: Dragon Familiar (White Dragon) Bonus: Piercing Cold Level 12: Winter's Blast Level 15: Eschew Material Component Level 18: Cold Spell Specialization Now... thoughts on spells to go along with this? Keeping in mind that all her cold damage dealing spells will ignore Cold Resistance for free, still do half damage to Cold Immune Creatures, and are 1/2 Force Damage, and do an extra 2d6/3d6 damage.... Ice Mage gives her 'Conjure Ice Beast I' free for what it is worth.
Wizu 02-06-07, 12:19 AM	Alright, after some work she decided this is what we are going for.... House Rules: *Feat not required for Greater Rite of the Dragon Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold Favored Soul 1/Sorcerer 4/Frost Mage 4/Winterhaunt 10/Sorcerer (Planar) '5' Flaws: Feeble, Noncombative Feats: Starting: Dragonwrought (White Dragon) Flaw: Snowcasting Flaw: Chosen of Imborighu Level 3: Frozen Magic Level 6: Craft Wonderous Item Level 9: Dragon Familiar (White Dragon) Bonus: Piercing Cold Level 12: Winter's Blast Level 15: Eschew Material Component Level 18: Cold Spell Specialization Now... thoughts on spells to go along with this? Keeping in mind that all her cold damage dealing spells will ignore Cold Resistance for free, still do half damage to Cold Immune Creatures, and are 1/2 Force Damage, and do an extra 2d6/3d6 damage.... Ice Mage gives her 'Conjure Ice Beast I' free for what it is worth. Uh, 5 levels of sorcerer in the end? They do have a mechanical purpose, riiight? I mean, that'd be just the best place to drop a filler 5 level class. Like for example fatespinner. =P
WackyOne 02-06-07, 03:45 AM	Have you thought about Practiced Spellcaster, to get back at least the caster level you sacrificed (and, if you get it, maybe a level of Marshal for Cha to checks vs SR or initiative, your choice)?
Naanomi 02-06-07, 10:07 AM	Uh, 5 levels of sorcerer in the end? I was trying to say 'One last level of Sorcerer, which is the Planar Substitution Sorcerer 5 level'... didn't come across well I know... it changes half of all energy damage dealt into force damage, to help deal with incorporeal creatures and further boost damage against ice 'immune' creatures.
Wizu 02-06-07, 10:46 AM	Check! Then its all well and good, carry on! =P