Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werrwaaa 10-06-06, 01:20 AM	Ok, so I want to build a Rogue with decent Sneak Attack abilities. I'm thinking straight Rogue into Assassin is the best route. Simple. Effective. Maybe Rogue 5/ Assassin 10/ Invisible Blade 5...? Rogue 10/ Assassin 10...? My problem is that I would like to take Sacred Strike, but then there is that whole Assassin thing... sad in the pants. What feats should I aim for? Improved Feint, quick draw, improved initiative, flick of the wrist? 1: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint 3: Quick Draw 6: Flick of the Wrist 9: Improved Initiative 12: Pursuasive Those are just some preleminary ideas. Advice more than welcome. Now, if I can convince the DM to drom the alignment restriction on Assassin...
PhaedrusXY 10-06-06, 01:26 AM	I think Swashbuckler 3 is a no-brainer for a rogue going into assassin. You might check the Shadowlord Assassin link in my sig.
saru 10-06-06, 01:32 AM	if you want to be a sneak attacker, you should check feats about sneak attack like : craven, staggered strike, precise strike, telling blow, ...
Werrwaaa 10-06-06, 01:45 AM	if you want to be a sneak attacker, you should check feats about sneak attack like : craven, staggered strike, precise strike, telling blow, ... Can you tell me where those can be found?
Werrwaaa 10-06-06, 01:46 AM	I think Swashbuckler 3 is a no-brainer for a rogue going into assassin. You might check the Shadowlord Assassin link in my sig. I know, I know. I <3 Swashbucler, but I would lose 2d6 sneak attack if I did that, and big sneak damage is kind of what I was aiming for. :(
X-Codes 10-06-06, 01:52 AM	Sacred Strike isn't a very good feat. It's better than Deadly Precision but far worse than Craven. Next, Assassin 10 isn't a very good level for the class at all. Rogue 11/Assassin 9 is generally better than Rogue 10/Assassin 10. You could also go Rogue 5/Invisible Blade 5/Nightsong Enforcer 1/Assassin 9 and end up with 12d6 SA. For a less evil route, theres Rogue 5/Invisible Blade 5/Dread Commando 5/something else 5... Best I can think of is either Stonedeath Assassin or Nightsong Enforcerer, both of which give 2d6 in 5 levels, for 11d6 with a +16 BAB with Stonedeath Assassin or 11d6 with a +18 BAB with Nightsong Enforcer.
Werrwaaa 10-06-06, 01:55 AM	I'm waaay behind on books. I recognize some of the cited feats and PrCs. But there are also a number I do not recognize. Could you guys tell me which books you are pulling from? Thanks a bunch for the suggestions so far! :D
PhoenixInferno 10-06-06, 01:56 AM	Before you go Sneak Attack crazy, what is your backup plan vs crit immunes?
Werrwaaa 10-06-06, 01:57 AM	I really don't have one. Any ideas?
PhoenixInferno 10-06-06, 01:59 AM	I really don't have one. Any ideas?Yes. I'd rather you think about it. Just to open your eyes to realize that having huge SA sounds like fun, but there are lots of enemies that are immune and if you don't think about what you're going to do when you fight them, you're missing a part of the optimization process.
Werrwaaa 10-06-06, 03:32 AM	Well, i kind of consider is an aspect of min/maxing. I'm maximizing my Sneak Attack, which minimized my effetiveness against opponents who are immune. Trade offs, even if it is a fairly large one.
PhaedrusXY 10-06-06, 03:38 AM	I know, I know. I <3 Swashbucler, but I would lose 2d6 sneak attack if I did that, and big sneak damage is kind of what I was aiming for. :(Ok, let me put it like this: Insightful Strike works on every attack, unless the enemy is immune to crits. Sneak Attack requires Flanking, etc. At the upper levels, Insightful Strike will get you as much damage on average as those lost 2d6 sneak attack if you're planning on using your Assassin spells and/or Death Attack much at all (Int of 24). So, in fact you are not losing 2d6 sneak attack so much as gaining a couple of "always on" sneak attack dice that have fixed damage, and that can be improved as you go up in levels (increased Int). Oh, and you get free Weapon Finesse, a boost to your Base Attack (which means ALL of your attacks are more likely to hit), and a boost to your hit points and Fort. saves. So... like I said, 3 levels of Swashbuckler are absolutely a no-brainer for a high Int rogue, at least in my opinion...
PhoenixInferno 10-06-06, 03:39 AM	Well, i kind of consider is an aspect of min/maxing. I'm maximizing my Sneak Attack, which minimized my effetiveness against opponents who are immune. Trade offs, even if it is a fairly large one.Er...its maximizing strengths and minimizing weaknesses...
PhaedrusXY 10-06-06, 03:43 AM	Er...its maximizing strengths and minimizing weaknesses...Alot of people don't seem to get that. :P
Vierda 10-06-06, 04:13 AM	Craven is from Champions of Ruin - it will give you +1 dmg / character level on your sneak attack.Awesome for boosting your dmg output. what weapons do you want to use? going for two weapon fighting?
natural_selection 10-06-06, 05:21 AM	Have a look at "tumbling feint" from phb2.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 10-06-06, 08:11 AM	Persuasive is a poor feat - there's so much better out there, especially at 12th level.. Also, feinting is generally a poor option compared to simply flanking people. The exception is potentially the Invisible Blade (but check with your DM if he's using the errata'd version where you can only feint once per round). Book locations: Craven = Champions of Ruin Telling Blow = PHB2 Dread Commanda = Heroes of Battle Nightsong Enforcer = Complete Adventurer Stonedeath Assasin = Races of Stone And the point about what to do against crit immunes is a VERY important one, my first ever character was a Rogue and I didn't realize you needed a backup plan, and the campaign turned out to be an undead heavy one... So, the usual (and easiest) work around is Use Magic Device, so you can use a few wands and scrolls against crit immune enemies. If you're using a PrC without UMD on its class list then Able Learner (Races of Destiny) is one option, but with Rogue skill points and a good Int you can afford to cross-class one skill. There's also a few other options: Skullclan Hunter PrC (Miniatures Handbook) - lets you sneak attack undead Grave Strike - Complete Adventurer, Cleric spell, lets you Sneak Attack undead (swift action to cast) Golem Strike - Complete Adventurer, Sorc/Wiz Spell, sneak attack golems Vine Strike - Complete Adventurer, Druid Spell, sneak attack plants. So, getting hold of all three of those spells is best done through UMD, but the Skullclan Hunter is still worth looking at, since Undead are probably the most common crit immune creature, and the PrC's other abilities are nice as well. But you'd still want UMD even then, to deal with elementals, constructs, plants, etc. PHB2 also has an even simpler option - the Disruptive Attack ability. It replaces Uncanny Dodge (but you can still get it at level 6, or via another class so its easy enough to cope with), and it lets you impose a -5 AC penalty on your targets rather than Sneak Attack them. And it lets you do that even to crit immune targets. So, the party fighters will really appreciate the easier to hit rolls and option to use Power Attack, so you'll still be a very useful party member.
jameswilliamogle 10-06-06, 09:30 AM	Martial Study: Assasin's Stance for an extra 2d6 SA dice.