Build seeking optimization [Archive] - Wizards Community

Build seeking optimization [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daisuke
02-18-06, 02:41 AM First time poster here. I want to know what you gurus think of this gestalt build I'm creating for a campaign I'm setting up with the Maximum Ranks, Limited Choices varient from Unearthed Arcana. :plotting:

Mersharr Hunting Tiger
Catfolk
Samurai/Sorcerer 4

Stats (after Racial Mods)
16 STR
20 DEX
16 CON
14 INT
13 WIS
19 CHA

HP: 45
BAB: 4
AC: 22
Fort: 7 (after Racial Mods)
Refl: 6 (after Racial Mods)
Will: 5 (after Racial Mods)
SR: 0
Spell Failure: 20%

Skills
Concentration
Intimidation
Knowledge (arcana)
Spellcraft

Feats
Simple Weapon Proficiency
Martial Weapon Proficiency
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana)
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Wakizashi)
Light Armor Proficiency
Medium Armor Proficiency
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Two Swords as One
Kiai Smite 1/day
Summon Familiar (Cat)
Weapon Focus (Katana)
Draconic Heritage (Silver)

Possessions
667 gp
8 sp

Backpack: 2 gp
Bedroll: 1 sp
Sack: 1 sp
Trail Rations (30 days): 15 gp
Everburning Torch: 100 gp
Spell Component Pouch: 5 gp
Dragonfang Katana: 700 gp (AB: 9, Dam: 1d10+4, Crit: 19-20 x2)
Dragonfang Wakizashi: 600 gp (AB: 8, Dam: 1d6+4, Crit: 19-20 x2)
Mithral Chain Shirt: 1100 gp (AC: +4, Max DEX: 6, Armor Check: 0, Spell Failure: 10%)
2x Potion Bracers: 100 gp (Spell Failure: 10%)
6x Potions of Cure Moderate Wounds: 1800 gp
Ring of Protection +1: 2000 gp
Amulet of Natural Armor +1: 2000 gp

Spells

0 Level (6/day)
Acid Splash (1d3)
Detect Magic
Disrupt Undead (1d6)
Prestidigitation
Ray of Frost (1d3)
Resistance

1st Level (7/day)
Shield (+4 shield bonus to AC)
Identify
Lesser Orb of Sound (2d6)

2nd Level (4/day)
Blur (20% miss chance)
Tleilaxu_Ghola
02-18-06, 03:07 AM Out of curiosity, why samurai? I'm not really sure what you're going for, but generally samurai (from Complete Warrior) is not considered optimal.

If you're going for the smite ability of the samurai, then that might be worth taking 3 levels of samurai for, but there are better ways to make a cha-based gish. Paladin is considered to be a great dip class for cha-based gishes (a 2 level dip gets you cha to saves and all the martial profs you like). You could follow up that paladin dip with a classic 2 level fighter dip to get whatever feats you like.

Other than that, do you have a desired theme or focus for this build?
Daisuke
02-18-06, 04:44 AM The reason I chose Samurai over something like Paladin is a matter of personal preference. One of the biggest inspirations for this build is the Samurai from the Wizardry computer games. The direction I'm going with this character is going to be either Dragon Samurai or Spellsword, the character already qualifies for either one, with the choices and backstory I'm cooking up. I'm also going to be taking several of the Draconic Heritage feats from Complete Arcane. I'm not exactly going for utter pwnage, the party should work together for that. I just want to be useful.
Slyver
02-18-06, 12:08 PM What's in a name? That which we call a CW samurai by any other name would would still smell like crap.

It's just a name. It doesn't mean it makes a good samurai. Imo It doesn't even have ANY of the traditional fantasy or historical samurai flavor except using a katana and wearing armor. Something that a wizard could do if he wanted (probably much better than the CW samurai actually). In addition to that it may very well be the worst mechanically designed class that WOTC has ever put out. And believe me, I love the samurai, both from historical and the concept of playing one in dnd standpoints. It really is just a name.

Ranger has a certain flavor, but really it is just a name. What it really is "Fighter with a little bit of divine magic and a whole lot of skills". That is ALL that it is. The titles that were in some cases almost haphazzardly assigned to the mechanics of some classes doesn't in any way add or detract from the true nature of the class. That nature being what it can add to an entire build from it's mechanics, not it's name being added to the whole.

A true gestalt (using websters rather than UA's definition) is a character that takes what he needs from certain classes to make a personification that has the exact mechanics that you want to have, disregarding any pigeon-holing done by some random_design_guy_005 at WotC, that is greater than the sum of its parts. You can call it whatever you want. It's your character. That's why dnd was redesigned in 3.0 to encouraging "multi-classing", to stop pigeon-holing so we could play the character concept we wanted, not what someone else wanted.

Ok, so where can we go from here. You want a samurai sorcerer. Do you want to duel wield? That may or may not be the best option. Samurai both historically and in a lot of fantasy primarily use a katana in two hands. In a gestalt spellcasting character that may be the best option.

Also, catfolk is very likely not the best option, but we can work with it if you insist.

I am not familiar with the Maximum Ranks, Limited Choices variant, nor do I wish to look through the entire book to find it (love the book, hate the table of contents). If you give me a brief synopsis or tell me what page it is on I may be able to help you with the mechanics for your character theme.

Slyver
Daisuke
02-18-06, 06:45 PM Though I differ on the opinion that the CW Samurai is crap I can understand your opinions on the matter. But I am going to be the DM for this campaign, I can chang the rules as I see fit. One of the biggest things I like in a character is asthetic value. Besides this character combo can't be much worse than the Barbarian/Wizard presented in Unearthed Arcana.

This is going to be a character who can tenderize the "meat" before closing in with some buffs and finishing off the enemy during combat. In fact Energy Substitution is one of the feats I'm going to pick for him. Also I personally feel that no other class quite matches the CW Samurai's innate ability to scare the oposition into submission, other than perhaps the Eye of Grummsh.

With the varient Maximum Ranks, Limited Choices you pick a number of skills equal to the number of skill points that the character would recieve at a level up, for these skills the character is always treated as having the maximum possible ranks for his or her level.
PhoenixInferno
02-18-06, 08:20 PM Just to compare the Ranger and Samurai's acquisition of key TWF feats, the Ranger gets Improved TWF at level 6 and the Samurai gets it at level 11. For a class that's FOCUSED on TWF, that is just...man, if you don't see why that sucks, I don't know what to tell you.

Use the Samurai from Oriental Adventures if you can - its much better. If you insist on using the CW Samurai, read rilem's Samurai Guide and Compendium (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=555304&origin=) as well as JosephKell's Comprehensive Gish Guide (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150451&origin=) and shadow mage's Character Spotlight: Gish (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=307309&origin=).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daisuke 02-18-06, 02:41 AM	First time poster here. I want to know what you gurus think of this gestalt build I'm creating for a campaign I'm setting up with the Maximum Ranks, Limited Choices varient from Unearthed Arcana. :plotting: Mersharr Hunting Tiger Catfolk Samurai/Sorcerer 4 Stats (after Racial Mods) 16 STR 20 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 13 WIS 19 CHA HP: 45 BAB: 4 AC: 22 Fort: 7 (after Racial Mods) Refl: 6 (after Racial Mods) Will: 5 (after Racial Mods) SR: 0 Spell Failure: 20% Skills Concentration Intimidation Knowledge (arcana) Spellcraft Feats Simple Weapon Proficiency Martial Weapon Proficiency Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana) Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Wakizashi) Light Armor Proficiency Medium Armor Proficiency Heavy Armor Proficiency Two Swords as One Kiai Smite 1/day Summon Familiar (Cat) Weapon Focus (Katana) Draconic Heritage (Silver) Possessions 667 gp 8 sp Backpack: 2 gp Bedroll: 1 sp Sack: 1 sp Trail Rations (30 days): 15 gp Everburning Torch: 100 gp Spell Component Pouch: 5 gp Dragonfang Katana: 700 gp (AB: 9, Dam: 1d10+4, Crit: 19-20 x2) Dragonfang Wakizashi: 600 gp (AB: 8, Dam: 1d6+4, Crit: 19-20 x2) Mithral Chain Shirt: 1100 gp (AC: +4, Max DEX: 6, Armor Check: 0, Spell Failure: 10%) 2x Potion Bracers: 100 gp (Spell Failure: 10%) 6x Potions of Cure Moderate Wounds: 1800 gp Ring of Protection +1: 2000 gp Amulet of Natural Armor +1: 2000 gp Spells 0 Level (6/day) Acid Splash (1d3) Detect Magic Disrupt Undead (1d6) Prestidigitation Ray of Frost (1d3) Resistance 1st Level (7/day) Shield (+4 shield bonus to AC) Identify Lesser Orb of Sound (2d6) 2nd Level (4/day) Blur (20% miss chance)
Tleilaxu_Ghola 02-18-06, 03:07 AM	Out of curiosity, why samurai? I'm not really sure what you're going for, but generally samurai (from Complete Warrior) is not considered optimal. If you're going for the smite ability of the samurai, then that might be worth taking 3 levels of samurai for, but there are better ways to make a cha-based gish. Paladin is considered to be a great dip class for cha-based gishes (a 2 level dip gets you cha to saves and all the martial profs you like). You could follow up that paladin dip with a classic 2 level fighter dip to get whatever feats you like. Other than that, do you have a desired theme or focus for this build?
Daisuke 02-18-06, 04:44 AM	The reason I chose Samurai over something like Paladin is a matter of personal preference. One of the biggest inspirations for this build is the Samurai from the Wizardry computer games. The direction I'm going with this character is going to be either Dragon Samurai or Spellsword, the character already qualifies for either one, with the choices and backstory I'm cooking up. I'm also going to be taking several of the Draconic Heritage feats from Complete Arcane. I'm not exactly going for utter pwnage, the party should work together for that. I just want to be useful.
Slyver 02-18-06, 12:08 PM	What's in a name? That which we call a CW samurai by any other name would would still smell like crap. It's just a name. It doesn't mean it makes a good samurai. Imo It doesn't even have ANY of the traditional fantasy or historical samurai flavor except using a katana and wearing armor. Something that a wizard could do if he wanted (probably much better than the CW samurai actually). In addition to that it may very well be the worst mechanically designed class that WOTC has ever put out. And believe me, I love the samurai, both from historical and the concept of playing one in dnd standpoints. It really is just a name. Ranger has a certain flavor, but really it is just a name. What it really is "Fighter with a little bit of divine magic and a whole lot of skills". That is ALL that it is. The titles that were in some cases almost haphazzardly assigned to the mechanics of some classes doesn't in any way add or detract from the true nature of the class. That nature being what it can add to an entire build from it's mechanics, not it's name being added to the whole. A true gestalt (using websters rather than UA's definition) is a character that takes what he needs from certain classes to make a personification that has the exact mechanics that you want to have, disregarding any pigeon-holing done by some random_design_guy_005 at WotC, that is greater than the sum of its parts. You can call it whatever you want. It's your character. That's why dnd was redesigned in 3.0 to encouraging "multi-classing", to stop pigeon-holing so we could play the character concept we wanted, not what someone else wanted. Ok, so where can we go from here. You want a samurai sorcerer. Do you want to duel wield? That may or may not be the best option. Samurai both historically and in a lot of fantasy primarily use a katana in two hands. In a gestalt spellcasting character that may be the best option. Also, catfolk is very likely not the best option, but we can work with it if you insist. I am not familiar with the Maximum Ranks, Limited Choices variant, nor do I wish to look through the entire book to find it (love the book, hate the table of contents). If you give me a brief synopsis or tell me what page it is on I may be able to help you with the mechanics for your character theme. Slyver
Daisuke 02-18-06, 06:45 PM	Though I differ on the opinion that the CW Samurai is crap I can understand your opinions on the matter. But I am going to be the DM for this campaign, I can chang the rules as I see fit. One of the biggest things I like in a character is asthetic value. Besides this character combo can't be much worse than the Barbarian/Wizard presented in Unearthed Arcana. This is going to be a character who can tenderize the "meat" before closing in with some buffs and finishing off the enemy during combat. In fact Energy Substitution is one of the feats I'm going to pick for him. Also I personally feel that no other class quite matches the CW Samurai's innate ability to scare the oposition into submission, other than perhaps the Eye of Grummsh. With the varient Maximum Ranks, Limited Choices you pick a number of skills equal to the number of skill points that the character would recieve at a level up, for these skills the character is always treated as having the maximum possible ranks for his or her level.
PhoenixInferno 02-18-06, 08:20 PM	Just to compare the Ranger and Samurai's acquisition of key TWF feats, the Ranger gets Improved TWF at level 6 and the Samurai gets it at level 11. For a class that's FOCUSED on TWF, that is just...man, if you don't see why that sucks, I don't know what to tell you. Use the Samurai from Oriental Adventures if you can - its much better. If you insist on using the CW Samurai, read rilem's Samurai Guide and Compendium (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=555304&origin=) as well as JosephKell's Comprehensive Gish Guide (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150451&origin=) and shadow mage's Character Spotlight: Gish (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=307309&origin=).