Post/Author/DateTime	Post
XrP-Leon The Second 06-22-05, 02:42 PM	Right now, my character is ECL 3. My stats are as follows: 16 18 15 14 16 15 For rolling, we did 10 + d8, so we have good stats.I was aiming for a gish, one either focused on speed (running in, stabbing, running away, shooting). This could be accomplished with a quick release armor, making it a move/free action ( I forgot) to get out of the armor. Maybe a warmage? obviously, a race with a LA +0. Or, something that's able to jsut stay out of combat and sling spells? ftr1 (bow feats)/ sorc? Our party has a cleric, pally, rogue, fighter, and wizard. Maybe a ftr1/warmage2 for the speed guy? Or, for more sheer spell power, a sorcerer? THat's not really good for HP though. Any ideas? We are allowed using anything from D&D 3.5, and anything else (other D20 systems, or modified 3.0), currently with me: complete arcane, races of stone, forgotten realms campaign setting, FR players guide, and the core 3. ...Maybe a druid, druid builds seem powerful, we don't have a druid.
monkeycaster 06-22-05, 03:27 PM	If you went with Sorceror, you could put one of your high stats in Con and take Improved Toughness as soon as your Fortitude saves break +2 and have your HP problem pretty much solved. Plus, you'd probably be breaking out of Sorceror ASAP and into a PrC and my pick a higher hp one (with +CL) just to top you off a bit, but that wouldn't help until later. I would go with Druid (or something like it) myself looking at what your party is playing. You've got Arcane, healing, evilslaying, tanking, city skills, and theft covered (assuming everyone plays their roles well), the only thing you lack is outdoorsy stuff, and a backup. The druid can backup both the cleric and the wizard, and with Wildshape can help the fighter and Pally out too. Won't do much for the rogue, but who cares about them, anyway? If I really wanted to go spellcaster, I might go Druid 3/Sor(orWiz)3/MT2/ArcaneHierophant10/MT2(4) and end up casting as a 17/17 Druid/Sorceror and have 8th level arcane, 9th divine, and the Wildshape abilities of a 13 druid. It'd probably be better to just go straight druid and work on things like Natural spell, and all the Wildshape stuff though. Maybe PrC into the Master of Many Forms or something like it if I fealt like going down one of the more specialist routes. just me though, YMMV.
ninjarabbit 06-22-05, 03:44 PM	This party is screaming for a bard. bard8/fighter1/spellsword1/sublimechord2/eldritchknight8, BAB 17, CL 18, great support or lead character
lgw 06-22-05, 03:46 PM	ninja is right - also consider spellsinger from races of fearun, if you like elfes. another possibility is marshal (i'd at least take 1 level, maybe more - try to look if you can get some synergy with bardic music).
Hochi-min trail 06-22-05, 04:00 PM	Today by accident, i looked at Complete Arcane and found siol Archanamarch (i have no idea how to spell it). Ilike it, and ithink it can be good for a gish. A simple ranger 5/sorcerer 1/SA 10/ranger 4 I suggest ranger over fighter because ranger uses light amror anyway, so you won't lose from the slow lowered arcane spell failure progression of the SA.
lgw 06-22-05, 04:10 PM	what does the archana... do ? a 9th lvl spell progression in a 10 lvl prclass or ... ? as a total of ranger 9 does really not seem any gishlike to me...
XrP-Leon The Second 06-22-05, 08:55 PM	Thanks for all of the ideas. Where is the marshal from, what's it good for? Also, where is the Arcane Hierophant? If I really wanted to go spellcaster, I might go Druid 3/Sor3/MT2/ArcaneHierophant10/MT2(4) and end up casting as a 17/17 Druid/Sorceror and have 8th level arcane, 9th divine, and the Wildshape abilities of a 13 druid. That, my friend, seems really good. How would I be shape changing as a 13th level druid? ...Hmm, that's large and tiny... with plants, too, 3 times a day... I might make a decent grappler, but that'd be about it... I would be quite capable as a spell caster, which is what I want. Any way to shape this up to be arcane lvl 9 and divine lvl 8, without losing any more than 1 or two effective levels of druid (I don't care about being able to shapechange into a plant, but I want the rest) It'd probably be better to just go straight druid and work on things like Natural spell, and all the Wildshape stuff though. I might, dunno yet. I haven't found any overly convincing PrC's for the druid. This party is screaming for a bard It is. But I like the other caster better... I've been checking around at http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=340926 (The sublime compilation) and have been checking them out, they are still good ways to go, as I can see. Today by accident, i looked at Complete Arcane and found siol Archanamarch (i have no idea how to spell it). Ilike it, and ithink it can be good for a gish. A simple ranger 5/sorcerer 1/SA 10/ranger 4 I suggest ranger over fighter because ranger uses light amror anyway, so you won't lose from the slow lowered arcane spell failure progression of the SA. I've never really liked the SA, it doesn't offer much, unless you pour a lot of levels into it.
Namarus 06-23-05, 01:25 AM	Well tbh you could go druid 3/wizard3/MT2/AH10/MT2 That would give you 9 level arcane, 9 level divine. Along with 13 levels of wild shape. If you took the natural bond feat, you would have an effective 16 levels for an animal companion and that companion would also have 13 levels of familiar abilities tagged onto it. If you took practised caster twice, and natural spell you would be a spell casting arsenal. PS Arcane Hierophant is in Races Of The Wild.
XrP-Leon The Second 06-23-05, 02:04 AM	Well tbh you could go druid 3/wizard3/MT2/AH10/MT2 That would give you 9 level arcane, 9 level divine. Along with 13 levels of wild shape. If you took the natural bond feat, you would have an effective 16 levels for an animal companion and that companion would also have 13 levels of familiar abilities tagged onto it. If you took practised caster twice, and natural spell you would be a spell casting arsenal. PS Arcane Hierophant is in Races Of The Wild. Sounds great. So, since I'm starting at level three, should I be a wiz2/drd1, or druid 3, that's about all that's left to ask. I'm going to check out RoW tommorow, and try this one out. Powerful spells, albeit I assume not many, plus a 13th level wildshaper means I can still be a halfway decent secondary combatant, and my animal companion should be pretty decent too. Question, can you stack familiar with animal companion? Or, more specifically, does it ever say that you can't stack them?
Paradisio 06-23-05, 03:04 AM	No, they usually don't stack, but arcane hierophant makes the familiar and animal companion one. I would go wiz 2/druid 1 first.
Hochi-min trail 06-23-05, 06:53 AM	Take the druid level first for moe HP.
XrP-Leon The Second 06-23-05, 01:33 PM	That's what I intended. My DM houseruled that if you have familiar abilities and an animal companion, you can dismiss one, and add it's abilities to the other, or just have two creatures. But, the next thing I need to know: This build is really great, and later on I'm going to take it more or less to 20th level. However, over the next week, I will only be taking it from 3rd-5th level. So, can you all optimize it for that? I'm guessing a straight Druid 3 would be best for now, and then for 4-5 levels take the wizard levels... Remember: Any book from 3.5, any 3.0 book that will convert easily, and any 3rd party material that isn't messed up.
Namarus 06-23-05, 01:51 PM	The only way to make the build work is going druid at level 1, you get more hps, more skills. Druid 1 wizard 1 Druid 2 wizard 2 Druid 3 wizard 3 knowledge (religion) 6, knowledge (arcana) 6 mystic theruge 1 mystic theurge 2 knowledge (nature) 8, knowledge (arcana) 8 AH 10 MT 2 Definate feats you need to get is natural bond at level 3 to keep your druid pet optimised. You might want to consider two practised caster feats for druid and wizard, along with arcane strike if your going to get into melee. You only really need to keep your top two attributes into int followed by wisdom, since the build requires a lot of skill points. Especially keeping spot and listen maxed out. Your main problem is that you will be relatively weak at lower levels, but if you let your companion do all the fighting while you support it you should be fine. Oh I also forgot to mention ..... Wildshape+Transformation+Arcane Strike .... for the win. Wild shape into somethign that gives you tonnes of attacks.
DDogwood 06-23-05, 02:06 PM	Although I think the Druid/AH would probably be a great way to go, something else to consider would be an Enlightened Fist build. You can have the arcane spellcasting power of a sorc/wiz, with the mobility and flexibility of a Monk. This makes for a great support character, because you can apply a lot of damage to whatever part of the battlefield needs it the most. You can provide to the Rogue when he's sneaking, to the Wizard when he's casting, and to the rest of the party when they're fighting. Feats to consider are Serpent Strike (flurry with a longspear) from ECS, and perhaps Aescetic Mage from CV (although Enlightened Fist covers a lot of this already)