Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Judging Eagle 03-02-05, 10:45 AM	So, i'm playing in my local LG campaign (my triad region is Ket, so saps and non-lethal damage are key if I ever need to take in humans and other non-elves in for capture to the authorities (also, to get an idea for Ket's views on elves, a discussion on elves in Ket could be decribed as "Elves: Baby-eaters? or just plain monsters?")). My character so far: 28 point buy (build here): str 12 +1 dex 16 +3 con 14 +2 int 14 +2 wis 8 -1 cha 10 0 level 1 fighter gear: armour: chainmail, heavy wooden sheild weapons (lots here): -spiked chain (disarm/trip, useful mostly for the reach with no donut), -light mace, (fullfills my bludgeouning needs and it's light as well) -throwing axe (i needed a light slashing weapon and it's throwable) -rapier, (finessable and piercing, so w/e) -heavy flail (smashy, smashy; helped maul a hippogriff in my second module) -sap (i use this whenever I am not fighting monsters and/or I use my chain and disarm/trip opponents) Mount: Light Warhorse (w/ studded leather barding now, the hippogriff kept attacking the horse, which probably saved my life but it's ac was only 14, 18 now though) -everburning torch -50' silk rope (useful for tying up people, we tie up one captured enemy at least once EVERY session in every module that i've played, so, yeah). -grapple hook GP left: 19.25, if I complete an other module and get it's max gold that's an other 400 gp, and only 150 gp for a mini-module. Current XP: 575 (max for an APL 2 is 450, for a mini is still 450, minis are usually great for fast XP (ie. 450 xp at lvl 1 for 2 hours of playing, full modules are good for gold and character progression instead but take 3-4 hours) feats: EWP (s.chain), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes HP 12 AC: 20/ 18 (w/out shield)/ 16 (when enlarged) I'm thinking of going for 5 lvls of wizard next, but I'll prolly take an other lvl of fighter for the HP and bonus feat. After than eldrich knight until level 16 I guess (retirement level for LG characters used to be lvl 18). Any reccomendations for combos/weapons or other PrCs/Feats to look at? Right now I'm thinking of getting spells that few other wizards take. Like true strike and then charge for 2D8 + str mod with the lance, then drop it and pull out the spiked chain, get enlarged and start making fools drop to the ground (via trip) so that party members can coup de grace them. Or, I could use my horse to make me 'count' as being larger (just need a few more straps to my saddle and a belt of giant str and since the mount is large that would negate my needing to be enlarged, just a thought). I'm also considering taking a level of rogue to open more class skills to me (I'd put the points into: spot (5 ranks), use rope (1), listen (4 ranks) and be able to sneak attack anyone that my allies flank). Just a thought, but I really don't need to take the lvl of rogue, already the level of fighter is going to slow me down and I might take the following progression: 1 Fighter 1 (EWP: S.chain, Comb Reflexes, Weap Finesse (I can replace weapon finesses for an other feat, maybe dodge to go for spring attack or combat expertise to get whirlwind and improved trip later on), 2 Wizard 1 (for scribe scroll, to share/learn spells w/ my group's other wizard, as well as an owl familiar for alertness as well as +3 to spot checks in shadows) 3 Fighter 2 (for more hp mostly, maybe dodge and mobility) 3 wiz 2 5 wiz 3 6 wiz 4 (spring attack to combine with expeditious assault to rush up to people, attack/trip, fall back and wait for them to provoke AoOs) 7 wiz 5 (craft wonderous? not sure, maybe a metamagic feat, subdual substitution would help in Ket, but I'd have to learn it by doing the right module) 8+ EK I could trade in dodge/mobility/spring attack for the mounted combat feats: mounted combat, ride-by attack and spirited charge. I'm just not really sure what to focus on, the spiked chain as an ideal reach weapon or the lance, however I think that I could emulate the effects of ride-by attack with spring attack..... any ideas would be helpful.
waywreth 03-02-05, 11:08 AM	Few things - First off a tripped opponent is not helpless and thus not subject to a coup de grace attack. They do however provoke when trying to stand up. Also being on a horse while adding a bonus to hit, does not have you count as a large creature, thus no +4 on trip attempts. Second, you need improved trip to trip without provoking (unless you do it at 10' with the spiked chain, even then the +4 from the feat is very helpful). And to get improved trip you need combat expertise. Finally I'd suggest taking a look at the two Gish threads floating around on these boards. As per builds, I like: Wizard 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 9 Fighter 2/Warmage 4/Spellsword 5/Eldritch 9 or if UA is allowed Battle Sorcerer 4/Fighter 1/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 10
Judging Eagle 03-02-05, 11:44 AM	Few things - First off a tripped opponent is not helpless and thus not subject to a coup de grace attack. They do however provoke when trying to stand up. Also being on a horse while adding a bonus to hit, does not have you count as a large creature, thus no +4 on trip attempts. True, they don't allow themselves to be C de G'd, but they do take that -4 to melee AC (watching about 8 lvl 1 Pcs trying to subdue someone with only saps while surrounding him and him trying to tumble past them all was funny to watch). Also, going prone saves you're butt when you're attacking people at range, until they reach your wizard and put you to -1 though. ...D:< The only time we've been able to Coup de Grace is when an oppoent is sleeping, and even then the player makes sure that their using their most powerful weapon and striking two-handed (if it helps). Helped take down a hipogriff in two rounds. The wizard sleeped it, the marshal took it out, while I, or rather my warhorse was tanking the second hipogriff while the rest of the party was shooting it and i was bringing my heavy flail to bear. Second, you need improved trip to trip without provoking (unless you do it at 10' with the spiked chain, even then the +4 from the feat is very helpful). And to get improved trip you need combat expertise. I never try to trip while close in, and if I do, the group's Marshal gives me an additional +3 Ac vs AoOs on his allies thanks to his Master Of Opportunity lesser aura (marshal + bard = godly leitenant type). Few enemies can hit AC 19 easily (yes, AC 19, with no sheild and when enlarged), I have less AC when not provoking AoOs though. I guess Imp Trip + large size would put me at about.... 2 + 4 + 4 or +10 on opposed str vs their str/dex rolls. Finally I'd suggest taking a look at the two Gish threads floating around on these boards. As per builds, I like: Wizard 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 9 Fighter 2/Warmage 4/Spellsword 5/Eldritch 9 or if UA is allowed Battle Sorcerer 4/Fighter 1/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 10 UA isn't allowed (and non-PHB spells/feats aren't allowed till lvl 3+ as well in living greyhawk). I need to take a look at spellsword but I know that I'll need it's ability to negate arcane spell failure, hopefully I can get a mithril breastplate, but I'll prolly be stuck with elven/mithral chain since it's more likely.
Kuroi Kenshi 03-02-05, 01:13 PM	Ok, you have your char fleshed out, but do you want a specific role? Like, battlefield control, damage dealer, tank, secondary caster, group supporter, etc? Also, do you really see yourself on horseback a lot in combat, or is it just a secondary thing? That'd help. I also think you could stand to drop your dex a point, raise strength two points, and forget weapon finesse. Or even make str 15 and dex 14.
UMiskatonic 03-02-05, 01:51 PM	I'd switch charisma and will. You are okay now, but at APLs 6 and 8, you will have a will save of +3, which isn't stellar. As a fighter/mage, you aren't likely to be the one talking the Threshers out of arresting you. Also, you really should focus on something. In Ket, it might be cool to focus on mounted combat/spellcasting, they are known for their horses. You can fight with a lance, and cast from the back of your mount as well. If it's skill points you are after, I HIGHLY recommend ranger/wizard as a superior combination. It will give you more skill points, and a better reflex save, for the low cost of 3 hit points. Two-weapon fighting works fine off of a horse, as does rapid shot. Taking the archery feats would allow you to make great use of ranged touch attack spells, like ray of enfeeblement, scorching ray, lesser acid orb... BTW, ray of enfeeblement is a good way to capture people as well. You can force someone to be encumbered, and then run them down.
Mommy was an Orc 03-02-05, 04:12 PM	It is a lot easier to get rid of ASF by not taking more than 1 level of Spellsword and simply taking Still Spell on all your spells. I need to take a look at spellsword but I know that I'll need it's ability to negate arcane spell failure, hopefully I can get a mithril breastplate, but I'll prolly be stuck with elven/mithral chain since it's more likely.
Kuroi Kenshi 03-02-05, 06:03 PM	Err...isn't that further crippling one's spellcasting by not being able to cast your highest level of spells? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's an effective -2 CL for a wizard. Why not take 3 levels of spellsword, lose 1 CL, and gain a bonus feat?
JosephKell 03-02-05, 06:52 PM	If you want a Martial PC that can toss a few spells, then use one of these lead ins with a Prestige Combo at the end Lead In (in Alphabetical order): 1. Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4 2. Fighter 2/Wizard 4 3. Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4 Make sure the Judge of your first module marks on your AR that you participated in a combat without resorting to spellcasting (which is why you take that class first). Cross-class Knowledge (Arcana) at level 1, then 4 more points in your Arcane Class will get you the 6 ranks you need. Or you can just spend 2 points for Knowledge (Arcana) at character levels 3, 4, and 5. Prestige Class Combo: 1. Spellsword 10 (5 more hp, Saves: +11 F/+4 R/+11 W, Spells as level 9) 2. Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 5 (baseline hp, Saves: +12 F/+3 R/+9 W, Spells as level 11) 3. Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 9 (4 less hp, Saves: +12 F/+4 R/+9 W, Spells as level 13) There are other combinations (Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 10 and Ftr 1/Wizard 5/EK 1/SpS 1/EK 2nd-9th), but they tend to have a lower survival rate and they generally make Arcane Spellcasters that are subpar (losing 2 levels of spell increase is bad, Practiced Spellcaster won't make up for that). Sword and Board: Human - Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14 (28 pt buy) 1 Ftr 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Bonus Feat (Power Attack) 2 Ftr 2: Bonus Feat (Improved Shield Bash) 3 Ftr 2/Sor 1: Eschew Materials (you want to use a shield, therefore, no components) 4 Ftr 2/Sor 2: 5 Ftr 2/Sor 3: 6 Ftr 2/Sor 4: Shield Charge 7 Ftr 2/Sor 4/SpS 1: IASF 10% 8 Ftr 2/Sor 4/SpS 2: Bonus Feat (Shield Slam) Human - Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14 (28 pt buy) 1 Pal 1: Weapon Focus (Longsword), Improved Shield Bash, Smite Evil 1/day, Detect Evil 2 Pal 2: Divine Grace, Lay on Hands 3 Pal 2/Sor 1: Eschew Materials 4 Pal 2/Sor 2: 5 Pal 2/Sor 3: 6 Pal 2/Sor 4: Shield Charge 7 Pal 2/Sor 4/SpS 1: IASF 10% 8 Pal 2/Sor 4/SpS 2: Bonus Feat (Shield Slam) Human - Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8 1 Ftr 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Bonus Feat (Power Attack) 2 Ftr 2: Bonus Feat (Improved Shield Bash) 3 Ftr 2/Wiz 1: Scribe Scroll, Eschew Materials 4 Ftr 2/Wiz 2: 5 Ftr 2/Wiz 3: 6 Ftr 2/Wiz 4: Shield Charge 7 Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SpS 1: IASF 10% 8 Ftr 2/Wiz 4/SpS 2: Bonus Feat (Shield Slam) Shield Bash Attempts: -4 to hit because you don't have Two-Weapon Fighting, but if you charge it becomes -2 (if it is a Light Shield) Shield Charge - Anytime you charge and make a shield bash at the end, in addition to the damage on a hit, you can also initiate a trip attempt - no AoO, no return trip attempt. Shield Slam - As a Full-Round Action or Charge, make a shield bash, if you hit, your target must make a Fort Save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Str Mod) or be dazed. Personally I think Tripping isn't all that effective because you can't keep tripping. When they provoke the AoO, they are still considered prone, so you can't trip them until after they are up. All tripping really does is limit a foe to a standard action attack a round (which isn't that bad). The Wizard build above could swap Bastard Sword for Longsword, then take Combat Expertise and Improved Trip for the +4 to trip (and the option to make an attack against a foe after tripping them, like after you do a Shield Charge). Weapon Focus is a lot more useful overall than Improved Trip. I will post a Mounted form in a second. My computer is having issues, so I have to eject my wi-fi card or else it freezes up.
Mommy was an Orc 03-02-05, 07:36 PM	That doesn't mean you can't cast your highest level of spells. It just means the vast majority of your spells have the Still Feat attached to them. A Spellsword 3 isn't that much better than a Spellsword 1 at ASF and neither of them can wear Mithril Plate without failure. Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Spellsword 1/EK X is fine at what it does. Suggestion, Darkness, Blindness, Blur, Mass Charm Monster, Dimension Door, Displacement, Feather Fall, Geas, Mord's Disjunction, Draconic Polymorph, Power Words, Prismatic Sphere, Shout, Teleports, Time Stop, Tongues, True Strike, Wail of the Banshee, and Wishes all are missing a Somatic component. There's usually some spells there that most Gishes will pick up. You can also cast extremely long duration spells when waking up or going to sleep. A Rod of Lesser Extend spell here works pretty well - Greater Magic Weapon, extended by an 8th level caster will last 16 hours. Which if cast right after you finish memorizing spells, then don your armor, will last all day. The big advantage for Still feat though isn't the caster level, it is that you can wear Mithril Plate and an Adamantine Shield and have no ASF. Sure, if you're in the right game, you can get Twilight, but that's a pretty large expense to always be paying - Adamantine Shields are nice because they don't sunder easily and are good for bashing when necessary. Err...isn't that further crippling one's spellcasting by not being able to cast your highest level of spells? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's an effective -2 CL for a wizard. Why not take 3 levels of spellsword, lose 1 CL, and gain a bonus feat?
Mommy was an Orc 03-02-05, 07:47 PM	That's ignoring three big advantages of Improved Trip: It is a melee touch attack, which will hit most things. So taking a penalty on the Improved Trip attack, say via Combat Expertise or Power Attack isn't a big deal. Then when they're prone, even if you took a -2 or 3, you're still getting a bonus to hit and AC or damage. It also means everyone else in your party gets a +4 to hit them and can also take similar penalties. Someone charging with Leap Attack who puts the +2 of charge and that +4 into Power Attack is going to do 36 hp of damage just from the Power Attack. As a Gish, you should expect to have a pretty decent reach advantage and at higher levels a strength advantage via spells. They may not even get that standard attack(or at least, not the one they want) Personally I think Tripping isn't all that effective because you can't keep tripping. When they provoke the AoO, they are still considered prone, so you can't trip them until after they are up. All tripping really does is limit a foe to a standard action attack a round (which isn't that bad).
JosephKell 03-02-05, 09:54 PM	MwaOrc, show me a build that can do that by level 8 that is legal for Living Greyhawk and I will conceed that to you.
Mommy was an Orc 03-03-05, 12:48 AM	Dwarf Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Spellsword 1(EK after this) - or Human if you want an extra feat. Specialist in Transmutation, bans Evocation and one other. Kind of a toss up - Necromantic works well here if you're a Dwarf because of the extra hit points from Con. Then you can cast Mage Armor...banning both of those works well, because it encourages casting spells with duration, rather than burning through your more limited capabilities. Feats: 1: Combat Expertise 1: Improved Trip(fighter bonus feat) 2: Scribe Scroll 3: EWP: Spiked Chain 6: Combat Reflexes 6: Still Spell(wizard bonus feat) At 8th level, 7th level caster, +5 BAB. Can cast Polymorph, Enlarge Person, False Life, Bull's Strength. With a starting Int of 14, +2 from levelling, and +2 from an Int +2 Item, will have just a high enough Int for an additional bonus 4th level spell without costing a lot via Point Buy. Or in other words, the ability to cast Polymorph on himself 3/day to gain a 25 Str, 20 AC without additional magic items, 20' reach. With Bull's Strength(same duration) a 29 Strength - Annis Hag is a MM creature who is only Large. I'm not 100% certain this is completely LG legal, but as everything is core except for the Spellsword... MwaOrc, show me a build that can do that by level 8 that is legal for Living Greyhawk and I will conceed that to you.
Kuroi Kenshi 03-03-05, 01:05 AM	That doesn't mean you can't cast your highest level of spells. It just means the vast majority of your spells have the Still Feat attached to them... Hey, you did say "all" in your earlier post. You didn't say "most" :P But otherwise, great points. Oh, and one other benefit to tripping comes from teamwork: when ganging up on an opponent, you get to grant AoO's to any party members or summoned creatures near the tripped target when it stands up. Since the AoO comes before the target actually stands up, they still get a +4 to hit. And of course if those people have power attack, more fun. If you have the right kind of party, once something gets tripped, it's not getting back up.
JosephKell 03-03-05, 01:32 AM	Spellsword is allowed in Living Greyhawk. You just have to have the Special requirement listed on an AR (Adventure Record) Sheet. That is easy to get by just taking Fighter (or Paladin) first. The Living Greyhawk Campaign Document has special rules for PolymorphDue to its complex nature, this spell needs some further clarification to operate with minimal problems in the campaign. You can only become a creature of a size class one size larger than your nroaml form You may take a form no smaller than fize sized. If a spell incrases your size and another spell tries to increase your size again it fails (the rest of the spell works it just does not change your size). This size restriction does not apply to Wild Shape, which has its own restrictions on size, however, the use of Wild Shape is still subject to size-stacking rule mentioned above. Equipment does no resize. If you change size, only items in the following slots continue to function normally: cloak, amulet/brooch, and weapons. All other items either fall off or are absorbed into your new form (and cease to function). Only base creatures from the MM are allowedable form selections. Creatures with templates, advanced versions of base creatures, and creatures not in the MM are now allowed without campaign documentation. For lycanthropes you cannot change into their hybrid form. Unless specifically listed as exceptional, all breath weapons are supernatural abilities and are not granted through use of the polymorph spell.Note that while it says weapons function as normaly, they don't resize, so now the PC has a -2 penalty to hit since it is improperly sized. But I guess Enlarge Person would serve as a fix for this, assuming you cast the shorter duration spell first. So in Living Greyhawk if you try to stack Polymorph and Enlarge Person, the target only benefits from +2 Str, -2 Dex from Enlarge Person. But how many rounds are you going to prep for? You can't use a Quickened Spell (Enlarge Person is 1st and your build doesn't have 5th level spells yet). What happened to your Leap Attack? I also think 3 rounds of spellcasting is pathetic. I am currently looking to see what the Circle's ruling on Stat Modifying items' effect on bonus spells but I think I remember reading that since they act just like the spell (and the spell specifically says they don't grant improved bonus spells) that they don't actually grant extra spells. If that is the case, then your Dwarf has only 1 4th level spell per day.
Mommy was an Orc 03-03-05, 09:47 AM	There's now a special ability for Weapons from Complete Adventurer - a +1 allows the weapon to resize. Even if your weapons don't resize, you can always carry a large spiked chain and cast GMW on it, extending it with a rod of extend spell. By 8th level, weight shouldn't be a big issue. That will last at the minimum 14 hours at that point...casting Enlarge Person doesn't make sense. I'm not taking Leap Attack, the main battle tank of the party is - I mentioned the Leap Attack right after talking about how the rest of your party also gets the same bonus. After you trip an opponent, the tank charges the tripped opponent via Leap Attack turning the +6 to hit from Prone/Charging into +36 damage, and then the two of you smack the guy again if he gets up from that. Odds are he's not as the two of you in combo probably did in the ballpark of 70 hp of damage. Leap Attack Tanks + Gish Trippers work extraordinarily well together. You're not casting 3 rounds of spells in combat, you're casting 1 round. If you know you're going into combat, you cast Bull's Strength - how many Fighters do you know that have a 25 Strength/Large Size/27 or so AC at 8th level in Living Greyhawk anyway? And as a Transmutation specialist, he's got 2 spells - and if that's the case with items, then he starts off with str 14, dex 14, con 16, int 16, wis 8, cha 6 for 3 spells... 27 AC = 20 for Annis Hag, 4 for Mage Armor, 3 for Combat Expertise. What happened to your Leap Attack? I also think 3 rounds of spellcasting is pathetic. I am currently looking to see what the Circle's ruling on Stat Modifying items' effect on bonus spells but I think I remember reading that since they act just like the spell (and the spell specifically says they don't grant improved bonus spells) that they don't actually grant extra spells. If that is the case, then your Dwarf has only 1 4th level spell per day.
JosephKell 03-03-05, 01:32 PM	You think it is easy to get a +1 enhancement in Living Greyhawk? You can't even buy a +1 Flaming Longsword until you see a Flaming weapon on an AR! I doubt you will ever see that resizing weapon enhancement on an AR or a Metaorganization. You can have a million gp and not be able to purchase a +2 Longsword! You should look for non-item resources since the only items you can only buy +1 items (and +2 stat boost items). There are no custom items. Please go reference the 4.2 Campaign Standards so you don't have to wait for me to clarify something. Here is the page I look at (local region to me) The Pale (http://www.theocracyofthepale.com/gamerules/), it is the "Living Greyhawk Campaign Standards" link. You also can't buy weapons that aren't sized to you unless campaign documentation says you can. Actually it is more like 2 spells. You said "Polymorph, Enlarge Person, and Bull's Strength," so even if you throw out Enlarge Person that is still two spells. And Polymorph has a 1 min/cl duration. Forgive me, I forgot that it was a Transmuter.
vjcsmoke 03-03-05, 01:56 PM	In your case I would take levels of Warmage with your fighter build rather than Wizard. Why? Warmages are offensive casters. Warmages get to ignore certain percentages of arcane spell failure while wearing armor. Warmages get 'warmage edge' which adds their int bonus to any damage spells they cast. A fighter/warmage looks to make the most sense to me if you want to build a melee guy with support damage capabilities. Warmage is from the Miniatures handbook. The other nice thing about it is that you don't have any PRC feat prerequisites to qualify. It's a core class so you simply multiclass into it. I imagine your end character will have something like 4 levels of fighter and 16 of warmage. Or instead of 16 warmage perhaps 10 warmage and some PRC goodness tacked on for flavor.
JosephKell 03-03-05, 02:31 PM	There is a big stink (at least in the Pale) about the multiclassed Warrior/Warmage. The common argument against it is that what the Warmage does best is ranged destruction while the Fighter does local destruction. And the lack of buff spells means the Warmage can't improve your Fighter abilities. For a Warmage, I would either do Warmage 8/Marshal 1/Eldritch Knight 7 (16 levels for a Warmage Caster Level of 14, Heavy Armor casting w/ light shield, and ) or Paladin 2/Warmage 4/Spellsword 10. Yeah that was a Blaster vs a Mixed. Warmage's can take Battle Caster at level 3 in Living Greyhawk and their Light Armor casting ability extends to Medium Armor (although you don't get proficiency). However, I don't think I would ever play a Gish except for high level play because they have so much overhead.
Mommy was an Orc 03-03-05, 03:00 PM	I'm just pointing out it is possible to find that property or item. And you don't need to make it happen until 8th level. You just need to keep asking. And mind you, you can use a regular medium spiked chain or say a large flail. The build doesn't have to use a large spiked chain to get the primary advantage - which is the superhigh str and AC scores - a fighter who started with a 16 is only going to have likely a 20 at that point and an AC in the low 20s. If you fight any large monstrous humanoids or giants, you're going to find some items to hold onto for polymorph - even if it isn't a trip weapon... I also didn't say I used all the spells at once, just those were some of the spells you should use. Enlarge Person is for levels 2-7, Polymorph for 8+, and Bull's Strength is for levels 3+. You also can't buy weapons that aren't sized to you unless campaign documentation says you can. Actually it is more like 2 spells. You said "Polymorph, Enlarge Person, and Bull's Strength," so even if you throw out Enlarge Person that is still two spells. And Polymorph has a 1 min/cl duration. Forgive me, I forgot that it was a Transmuter.
sgc8647 03-04-05, 07:08 AM	after 3 year of playing in Living GreyHawk leveling a now a Pal 2 / Sorc 4 / SpS 3 / Ek3 (and loved it every time i played) i have the follwong things to say, Hp, ac Saves are great to have and don't count on items access cause you wont get any. Gregoire
JosephKell 03-04-05, 06:44 PM	after 3 year of playing in Living GreyHawk leveling a now a Pal 2 / Sorc 4 / SpS 3 / Ek3 (and loved it every time i played) i have the follwong things to say, Hp, ac Saves are great to have and don't count on items access cause you wont get any. GregoireYou know, I just looked over the item rules again, and buying access is just as restricted as I said, but creating access is like this: If it is on an AR you have done (and you do it within a few modules), you can make it (assuming you mean all the requirements to make it). Or if the item is under 2,500 gp in price If you can make the item (have all the feat, spell, and material requirements) and have a CL 2 higher than required to make the item, you can make it. So I guess a Caster Level 10 PC can make a +1 Resizing Weapon. But then, no build put forth thus far includes Craft Magical Arms and Armor (or Practiced Spellcaster).
Mommy was an Orc 03-04-05, 07:48 PM	All you need to do is swap Combat Reflexes with Practiced Spellcaster, take Combat Reflexes with the EK feat at level 8, and then take Craft Magical Arms/Armor with your level 9 feat... If you can make the item (have all the feat, spell, and material requirements) and have a CL 2 higher than required to make the item, you can make it. So I guess a Caster Level 10 PC can make a +1 Resizing Weapon. But then, no build put forth thus far includes Craft Magical Arms and Armor (or Practiced Spellcaster).
Kuroi Kenshi 03-04-05, 08:24 PM	Or just be human :o
Judging Eagle 03-05-05, 02:10 AM	The mount is more of a "run things over, hopefully hit them" then let the mount tank while I attack, or dismount and go into melee. My mount has been pretty useless, everytime I've charged I've missed, then been forced to dump my lance and pull out my spiked chain or heavy flail. I've only used this character in two adventures (one intro, one mini; he's killed a hippogrif on his own with a heavy flail, taken down an evil cleric with his chain, smashed some giant scorpions with his chain and crushed a few elves) but he already fullfils the 'melee enemies' to death requirement. So far the party doesn't have an official 'leap attack destroyer' although one of us could make one (so far the only kind of set in stone characters in our group are as follows: -human marshall (probably going to go bard/marshal, not sure what prestige though) (lvl 1) -human wizard (lvl 1) (might go necromancer since that's his style, but we're going to discourage him and have him try something else) -human ranger (lvl 2) (going order of the bow I think) there's two other players in our group as well, -one has a cleric (lvl 1 or 2), a monk (lvl 3) and a druid (lvl 2 I think); -the other has a cleric (an Elven Cleric of The True Faith of Al'Akbar no less!), a paladin (lvl 2 I think), an other cleric (dwarf combat-type cleric) and a rogue. As you can see there are no other really big melee destroyers (although that one time we were playing with a half-orc barbarian it was really refreshing to watch someone who relished charging into melee and smashing everything, with my wizard's (my other char is a wizard lvl 2) enlarge person she was able to kill two dire bats no problem). I'm considering getting item creation feats (craft wonderous and craft wand, or craft arms and armour and craft wonderous and then buy wands), bracers of wand-storing plus buff/utility spells might help my char be able to cast several spells in a fight without having to draw/replace wands, just a thought. In any case, I'll prolly take a level of fighter for the HP and feat, then wizard for 5, a bit of spell sword then EK the rest of the way. On stats: Stats are looking like this: Human Fighter 1 str 12 dex 16 con 14 int 14 wiz 10 cha 8 feats: EWP: Spiked Chain, Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes
JosephKell 03-05-05, 03:14 AM	Sounds like you want to take thte trample feat.
sgc8647 03-07-05, 08:07 AM	JK, in over 4 years of playing LG i have never seen on a AR the resizing enh. and only twice the spellstoring Gregoire ps yup crafting is deff a smarch choice cause you see someting nice but usually you don't have the cash; as far as my pally build is in LG right now its: Pal 2 / sorc 4 / Sps 3 / Ek 3 feat: L1: EXP spike Chain, Weap focus Spike chain L3: Imp Tough L6: Pract spell SpS2: Combat Expertise L9: Arcane Strike EK1: Power Attack L12: Leadership
solbergb 03-07-05, 02:29 PM	There is a big stink (at least in the Pale) about the multiclassed Warrior/Warmage. The common argument against it is that what the Warmage does best is ranged destruction while the Fighter does local destruction. And the lack of buff spells means the Warmage can't improve your Fighter abilities. Agreed. There is zero synergy between warmage and a gish. Warmage is artillery, and is on sorcerer spell progression which means you can't be diluting it with fighter levels or you are using acid arrows when you should be using fireballs (and it only gets worse the higher level you go). You also don't want to delay sudden empower and med armor proficiency. A gish uses his magic to fight better, usually as a melee warrior, sometimes as an archer. Very little on the warmage spell list helps either (flame blade, fist of stone, truestrike, flame arrow being the major exceptions). The list lacks haste, GMW, keen edge, wraithstrike, guided shot, mage armor, shield, false life, alter self, etc etc) A Gish also uses magic to fix a big weakness of a fighter which is mobility. A gish can blink etherial, fly (and now sudden fly perhaps), function underwater, etc. Warmage gets no help in that regard. They're supposed to act like archers, standing in one place and blasting anything in line of sight. Finally a gish is usually functional as a secondary caster (to cast weaker but still useful party spells, such as haste when the real mage is casting wall of force, etc). A warmage isn't functional as anything but artillery, and if you dilute it...weak artillery. If playing at APL you are at similar problem to an archer playing up, if you are playing up you are pretty much ignorable by the opposition.
solbergb 03-07-05, 02:36 PM	I'm just pointing out it is possible to find that property or item. And you don't need to make it happen until 8th level. You just need to keep asking. And mind you, you can use a regular medium spiked chain or say a large flail. The build doesn't have to use a large spiked chain to get the primary advantage - which is the superhigh str and AC scores - a fighter who started with a 16 is only going to have likely a 20 at that point and an AC in the low 20s. If you fight any large monstrous humanoids or giants, you're going to find some items to hold onto for polymorph - even if it isn't a trip weapon... Not in Living Greyhawk. One of the annoying things about the campaign is all those large size weapons vanish after the mod is over unless they appear on the AR...which they almost never do for space reasons. And "asking" isn't going to help...item access is essentially random...as an example my monk has about a dozen armor upgrades and 3 separate mithril access while my arcane archer wabbabe was just barely able to purchase a mithril chain shirt+1 he found and is still looking for a way to get a mithril buckler. And my tank has no armor upgrades at all yet. And that is a common item. My archer has access to size large mundane unenchantable, non masterwork items. That gives me a sap that the BDF can power attack with, which is nice. My sorcereress saw a size large greataxe+2 once. At level 3, where you earn 650gp per adventure she had 3 adventures to buy it. All of my other characters put together have never seen a size large weapon. The point about him not being good at trip because of the 12 base strength is valid. He can trip medium and small opponents if he invests in the feat. Or he can get the "Grease" spell and do it a lot easier, vs any size opponent (grease requiring balance checks even if you make the reflex save...) The spike chain will be more useful in truestrike/disarm attempts. Plus if he puts whatever enchantments that add +d6 on the thing that he can find, it will bloody the nose of stuff charging in the surprise round a little, which can be helpful.
solbergb 03-07-05, 02:41 PM	You know, I just looked over the item rules again, and buying access is just as restricted as I said, but creating access is like this: If it is on an AR you have done (and you do it within a few modules), you can make it (assuming you mean all the requirements to make it). Or if the item is under 2,500 gp in price If you can make the item (have all the feat, spell, and material requirements) and have a CL 2 higher than required to make the item, you can make it. So I guess a Caster Level 10 PC can make a +1 Resizing Weapon. But then, no build put forth thus far includes Craft Magical Arms and Armor (or Practiced Spellcaster). Actually and this is very important the "2500gp or 2 levels higher" applies ONLY to Craft Wonderous. For Craft Arms and Armor (and craft rod, and forge ring) you have to have campaign documentation to do anything at all. Which means you start with the ability to make +1 armor and weapons and shields. All else you must find via AR or metaorg, and the metaorg rules change yearly, so don't count on anything from a metaorg unless you can purchase it soon after joining a metaorg.
Neb Rybel 03-07-05, 06:05 PM	Actually and this is very important the "2500gp or 2 levels higher" applies ONLY to Craft Wonderous. For Craft Arms and Armor (and craft rod, and forge ring) you have to have campaign documentation to do anything at all. Which means you start with the ability to make +1 armor and weapons and shields. All else you must find via AR or metaorg, and the metaorg rules change yearly, so don't count on anything from a metaorg unless you can purchase it soon after joining a metaorg.Oh, that is funny. You sure? That is a HUGE oversight. But then it makes sense. They don't want Clerics and Druids to be sole weapon/armor crafters.
Judging Eagle 03-08-05, 09:48 AM	Well, I might as well put up my build to date: 1 Fighter 1; EWP: S. Chain, Comb. Reflexes, Weapon Finesse 2 F 2; Combat Expertise 3 Wiz 1; Deft Opporunist (+4 on AoOs, out of the Mini's handbook, I can't take it earlier than lvl 3); Summon Familiar (prolly a hawk one, since no one suspects that a mounted armoured warriror who looks like he's going Hawking is actually a spellcaster)[alertness, from familiar], Scribe Scroll 4 Wiz 2 5 Wiz 3 6 Spellsword 1; Craft Wonderous Item 7 SS 2; Improved Trip 8 SS 3; (mainly for the 15% less ASF so I can get a mithral breastplate, I know an LG DM who could help me 'find' one eventually, since now we're gonna play from home). SS 4's channel spell has me abivalent though 9 Eldritch Knight; Practised Spellcaster, Improved Toughness (Imp Toughness is debatable, perhaps one of the Feats that Combat Expertise is a pre-req for might be a better Idea to get improved disarm) 10 EK 2 11 EK 3 12 EK 4; Feat (Not sure, perhaps leadership, but i've got a -1 on charisma, and an other -2 since i have a familiar, so my leadership score will be lvl-3 or an 6th lvl cohort at 12th, that would go up to a 9th at 16th, probably a ranged type fighter/wizard, or a crazy barbarian/fighter) 13 EK 5 14 EK 6 15 EK 7; Feat (not sure, no ideas either) 16 EK 8 and it seems that wand bracers are.. 60k, so I'm not likley to get any any time soon. >_> Ideal items list: I'll prolly get a -cloak of charisma (for a better cohort?) However, the group's Marshall is all about the charisma, so it would suit him better, what with his already high charisma modifier of +3 at lvl 1 (and those minor auras are soooo nice, if I take Improved Trip, and he has Art of War going on as his current minor Aura, I'd get +8 to any AoO Trip attempts, If I'm enlarged, that's +12 so long as I'm larger than them) -a vest of resistance (this can't stack with a cloak can it?) -a headband of intellect -gloves of dexterity -eyes of the eagle -levitation boots -a mage hand (mage hand + levitation > buying/making boots of flying, plus I can 'hustle' without really getting tired, or making noise by touching the ground) We'll see about me actually getting them, but I -DO- have an item worth up to 25k that I can get (wait, nm, that's my bloody 2nd lvl wizard character. -_-).