Post/Author/DateTime	Post
v4l3r1o 11-14-05, 01:34 PM	I've no ideas... :confused: I hope you to help me, a my friend is harassing to me from 2 weeks... :weep: Please some suggestions!! :P
Medicelious-Melharmonac 11-14-05, 02:44 PM	Start with a Grey Elf Add in 3 levels of Swashbuckler Add in Fairy Mysteries Feat (Dragon Magazine) = INT replace Con for HPs Assuming 28 pt buy STR 12 (04 pts) DEX 16 (10 pts) CON 08 (00 pts) WIS 12 (04 pts) INT 16 (10 pts) CHA 08 (00 pts) Now Modified its STR 10 DEX 18 CON 06 WIS 12 INT 18 CHA 08 1) SWB - Mounted Combat 2) SWB 3) SWB - [Int to Damage], Dodge 4) Fighter - Two Weapon Fighting 5) Fighter - Mobility 6) Fighter - Improved Two Weapon Fighting 7) CoCL - Spring Attack (Bonus Feat) 8) CoCL - Dex to Damage 9) Fighter - Weapon Focus Dagger, Improved Critical (Dagger) 10)Tempest And so on. It gives you nice to hit and a lot of attacks. Throw in 2 wounding weapons or bursting weapons and watch the bodies fall.
Khazra Reborn 11-14-05, 03:51 PM	This is my preferred build: half elf 1) SWB - able learner 2) SWB 3) SWB - Dodge 4) Fighter - Mounted Combat 5) Fighter - Mobility 6) SWB- TWF 7) CoCL - Spring Attack 8) CoCL - 9) Chameleon -ITWF 10) Chameleon -improved initiative 11) Chameleon 12) Chameleon -PA 13) Chameleon 14) Chameleon 15) Chameleon -Fairy mysteries 16) Chameleon 17) Chameleon 18) Chameleon -EWP thinblade 19) Fighter - OTWF 20) Fighter - GTWF chameleon takes: combat & divine focus mimic SA & X ability boons +6 int & dex With your bonuses to hit/damage from chameleon combined with divine favour & high key stats making for good HP, attack & dmage your a more then capable frontline fighter Thanks to Medicelious, i stole your presentation & your fairey mysteries idea :P
ck2001wendt 11-14-05, 04:02 PM	Kharza: How is a half-elf getting a racial feat (Able Learner) that it does not qualify for (RoD, page 42)?
tsuyoshikentsu 11-14-05, 04:18 PM	EDIT: Ignore me, I'm stupid.
v4l3r1o 11-14-05, 07:38 PM	LOL ^_^ ok i'm looking for
Timlagor 11-14-05, 08:03 PM	Swash3/Ranger3/Fighter2/CoCL2/Wildrunner2/Dervish8 OTWF with longswords.
Lord Zendor 11-15-05, 12:57 AM	Swash3/Ranger3/Fighter2/CoCL2/Wildrunner2/Dervish8 OTWF with longswords. You can't use Insightful Strike with Longswords, or this would be my next character. Why oh why does the Thinblade have to be piercing?
Lellindil 11-16-05, 01:07 AM	you could drop the ranger lvls and use a courtblade.
JosephKell 11-16-05, 03:07 AM	NEVER. EVER. Ditch Strength on a melee build. Weapon Finesse is a Rogue feat. Not a warrior feat. Rogues aren't meleers. They are Sneak Attackers. Int to damage is static at Int to damage. Strength to Damage is Strength with 1H, or 1.5 Strength 2H. Elven Thinblade, wielded two-handed, then uncanny blowed (EWM) is twice Strength to Damage. If you must use Swashbuckler, you can also add 1 Int to damage. But NEVER ditch Strength. You don't need a feat to use Strength on damage.
Khan the Destroyer 11-16-05, 03:53 AM	In the case of the Champion though, you get Dexterity to damage and to attack with Weapon Finesse. Granted, you can two-hand a Courtblade and get double strength, but pumping your Dexterity will improve Attack (both melee and range), Damage, Reflex save, and AC. Strength will only affect Melee Attack and Damage. You don't have to dump strength, but Dexterity may be more efficient in the end. I guess it depends on if you want to spend the feats on the Champion prestige class requirements. No thanks.
Moon-Lancer 11-16-05, 04:49 AM	A nice elf dervish. I cant seem to find a way to take advantage of karmatic strike and power attack sooner. the point in power attack is that while in dervish dance, their probably is going to be huge of room to power attack. Is their any eq that gives power attack? 01 Swb 1 Weapon Finesse, Exotic Weapon proficiency Court Blade, weapon Focus Court Blade (flaw shaky), 02 Ftr 1 Dodge 03 Swb 2 Mobility 04 Ftr 2 Combat Expertise 05 Swb 3 06 Drv 1 Mounted Combat 07 Drv 2 08 CCL 1 09 CCL 2 Combat reflexes, Karmatic Strike 10 Drv 3 Spring Attack 11 Drv 4 12 Drv 5 Power Attack 13 Drv 6 14 Drv 7 15 Drv 8 Elusive Target 16 Drv 9 17 Drv 10 18 CCL 8 leap attack 19 CCL 9 hold the line 20 CCL 10
Lellindil 11-16-05, 05:48 AM	But NEVER ditch Strength. You don't need a feat to use Strength on damage. finnesse is to avoid MAD on this char, if you want to optimize champ of corellon the best way to do that is finesse, unless you happen to have a huge str, which kind of defeats the purpose. swash3 is good for the int to damage, if you have a good int. it would probably be better if you had a high str over a high int if you are gonna use uncanny blow or a 2 handed weapon.
Timlagor 11-16-05, 09:17 AM	You can't use Insightful Strike with Longswords, or this would be my next character. Why oh why does the Thinblade have to be piercing? Durr. I knew there was a reason I was thinking of Scimitars (no OTWF; finessable with . OTWF was for Rapiers without Dervish. The joy of this build is that i doesn't actually have MAD: it has MABenefits. You need Dex for Hit and AC but because all the other stats are increasing damage, the benefits are stacking not detracting from each other. For point-buy this means you can get more for your points as most fo them will be 1:1 with attributes. You do still need enough Strength to be vaguely useful when things are immune to criticals (espcially with DR as well) but with Improved Combat Expertise you can have a good go at 'corking'.
JosephKell 11-16-05, 02:46 PM	finnesse is to avoid MAD on this charMAD? Multiple Attribute Dependance? What about WWAF? "Why Waste a Feat." Or WFA? "Waiting For Ability." The reason Weapon Finesse Meleers suck (again Rogues are Sneak Attackers, not "Meleers") is because they take a longer time to develop into worse damagers than Strength based PCs. The build in the second post does 1d8+1 damage to targets immune to sneak attack. Both Elegant Strike and Insightful Strike STATE that targets immune to sneak attacks and critical hits are immune to this extra damage. Take the term "MAD" with a grain of salt. Say you could get every thing in the game based on 1 stat. So you put all the others at 8 or 6 depending on racial modifiers. When you run into a creature that damages those other stats (which you will if it is a home game because cheesiness always forces DM's to gun for you) you are screwed. I have judged Living Greyhawk games (where the modules aren't tailor made to target certain PCs) and the party tank took 13 points of Charisma damage. Most tanks have 8 Charisma. So every Frenzied Berserker, Barbarian, Exotic Weapon Master, Swashbuckler, etc. you see on this board would've died in his place. 2 of my 3 LG characters would've died had they been the target (8 Charisma on my main and 6 on a backup). In combating MAD, you can doom a character. Common things to avoid: 1. Low Strength. Shadows are not (new) 3rd edition monsters. They have been in D&D for as long as I can remember. 1d6 Str dmg per Incorporeal touch attack. 2. Low Con. Wraiths are also not new. Incorporeal Touch of 1d4 plus 1d6 Con DRAIN (DC 25 fortitude). Also, the best part of CoCL is being able to use more Dex in heavy armor. But Swashbuckler pretty much precludes medium or heavy armor because of Elegant Strike. But the Dread Commando and CoCL seem made for each other! Between Mithril Full-Plate and 4 levels of Dread Commando, you have an ACP of +0. No one expects a PC wearing Full-Plate to have an ACP of +0. Follow this rule: Build your PC with synergy, but fight simply with tactics. Don't try to fight with Intelligence... Have you ever seen a nerd try to fight?
Khazra Reborn 11-16-05, 02:52 PM	How is a half-elf getting a racial feat (Able Learner) that it does not qualify for (RoD, page 42)? Im pretty sure half elves can qualify for anything that humans can....
aleko 11-16-05, 03:33 PM	It says otherwise in races of destiny where the feat able learner is listed.
Moon-Lancer 11-16-05, 04:32 PM	Is there any eq that grants power attack?
Lellindil 11-16-05, 06:39 PM	Don't try to fight with Intelligence... Have you ever seen a nerd try to fight? \ haha, true. my point is that if he wants to optimize a CoC weapon finesse is a good way to do that if he dosent have lots of high stats. if he happens to have a big str then there is really no point in going CoC unless he has a high dex too, in which case i would recomend he put it in con instead and do some other build. also people start trying to look for different ways to be a "meleer" than just another str fighter. I understand this is the optimization board, however sometimes its fun to optimize something that is not "the best". if people didnt do this you would rarely see anything other than frenzied berserkers and dervishes ever being played. the fact that this character is only going to be doing good damage against sneak attack-able creatures is a hindrance, lots of rogues have that same problem and can still find creative ways to be helpful in combat. In combating MAD, you can doom a character. true, but would u really rather have a character that had all 12's and 13's for stats? if your DM wants to kill you he can, no build is going to stop that, except maybe pun-pun.
Lellindil 11-16-05, 06:41 PM	if you were going to build a CoC how would you do it? or if you would never build a CoC how would you build a dex or int based fighter.
Raven42 11-16-05, 07:48 PM	Personally, my favorite build for a CoCL is swash3/ftr2/derv2/CoCL2 and then whatever. You can also drop the dervish levels for something else too. And take ecotic weapon prof elven courtblade. Could also go pally/ftr(or vise versa) and then all 10 levels of CoCL. Not exactly sure how optimized that is. But whatever you do, make sure you take the courtblade.
Sang-Drax 11-16-05, 08:11 PM	Int to damage is static at Int to damage. Strength to Damage is Strength with 1H, or 1.5 Strength 2H. You do realize how ridiculous this scene would look, right? :P {QUOTE=JosephKell]Also, the best part of CoCL is being able to use more Dex in heavy armor. [/QUOTE] Actually, no... by level 12 or so, with maxed-out Dex (which you should, since it defines your to hit as well as dmg) and a +6 item, an elf is already better off without a suit of armor - plus, you need not the investment on 8 levels of something better than the full CoCL PrC. Besides, you're the first person I've seen condemning finessers and CoCL's. Your average finesse dervish and/or CoCL could outfight 9 out of 10 tanks around... I do agree they usually suck against undead, though. As for rogues, I wonder why would you rather have high Str than Dex. Not only Dex is important for skills, but you'll also need AC, since you can't effectively wear heavy armor and Roguish PrCs don't usually have defensive bonus. Besides, when you can't sneak attack for tons of damage, what's the diffenrece between dealing 1d6+2 damage to doing 1d8+6 or so? You'll be kinda useless just the same. Even at mid-low levels, relying solely on Strength for damage is not enough to make you effective in melee, speciallly since your Str isn't likely to be uber-high. You're better off specializing as a sneak attacker that can avoid being hit at least once in a while. CoC is an awesome, AWESOME PrC for rogue/warrior arquetypes, btw. Hell, CoCLs kick ass in any undead-free campaign. My favorite build is more or less this: Scout 2/Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Dervish 10/Highland Stalker 2/Champion of Corellon 2 (more levels of scout would be nice, but the perspective of playing a gray elf with Initiate of the Faerie Mysteries is too damn good... damned favored class [wizard]). Good feats, incredible AC and damage, fair skills, good saves. Don't forget to pick Expeditious Dodge (RotW) instead of Dodge, in this case. If you're allowed to use BoED, going Dervish 8/Stalker of Karash 2 is a great deal... gain favored enemy (evil) and augment it with improved favored enemy (CW). EDIT: nevermind, I thought the thread starter had posted the build using Initiate of the Fairie Mysteries. Which leads to another question: what books are you using? What are the stats?
JosephKell 11-16-05, 10:18 PM	Int to damage is static at Int to damage. Strength to Damage is Strength with 1H, or 1.5 Strength 2H.You do realize how ridiculous this scene would look, right? :PNo, I don't. I am saying that Int to Damage isn't the same as Strength to Damage. Int is Int no matter what you use (Light, 1H, or 2H). Strength is full with a Light or 1H (in primary hand) or Strength and a Half 2H. On the off-chance that you misquoted and meant the comment about nerds trying to fight. Then my response is, "Yes, it would be. Now pass the pop corn."Also, the best part of CoCL is being able to use more Dex in heavy armor. Actually, no... by level 12 or so, with maxed-out Dex (which you should, since it defines your to hit as well as dmg) and a +6 item, an elf is already better off without a suit of armor - plus, you need not the investment on 8 levels of something better than the full CoCL PrC. Besides, you're the first person I've seen condemning finessers and CoCL's. Your average finesse dervish and/or CoCL could outfight 9 out of 10 tanks around... I do agree they usually suck against undead, though. How many feats do you imagine your elf having? And how high is your mythic Dexterity at level 1? I have heard the "Armor sucks because it caps out at +8 with +1 from Dex" argument before. And every single time it relies on rediculous item availability. But to evaluate your statement, it is AC +9 (+8 armor, +1 Dex) for them to be equal. So the Dex has to be able to give a +8 (Padded Armor) or better. So if you use the Elf +2 Dex and your +6 Dex item, that means you need a Dex of 18 (before racial modifiers) by level 12. You get 3 stat races by then. So yeah, it is do-able. If you have a at least 15 Dex at level 1 (17 after race). But wait. A Dex Modifier of +8 just TIES Full-Plate (not Mithril Full-Plate, hey you had a 36,000 gp item, why can't my example have a 10,500 gp one? And I will take the +4 Dex item at 16,000 gp). To beat it you need a Dex Modifier of +10 (to beat the +9). To beat Mithril Full-Plate you need +11 Dex. If you go 6 levels into CoCL, you need a +14 Dex Modifier (Dex 38) to beat out Mithril Full-Plate (with Dex 16 and 6 levels of CoCL, so +8 Armor, +5 Dex). So, giving you a +6 Dex item and the Elf racial bonus. That is just 30 Dex by level 20. Or 20 at level 1 (before race) and using 5 wishes and all 5 state increases at level 20 (8 levels after your boast). So yeah, but how much have you devoted to it? Or you could save the feat, have a high Strength (which can be 33% lower and give the same bonus to damage). Please note that I intentionally don't factor in Bracers of Armor because they are the same cost as enhancement bonuses on armor. So yes, if you give your Dex Guy crazy stats and give my tank 28 Point Buy, you might beat me 9 out of 10 times. But if we each get the same stat pool, your claim won't hold up. For the sake of argument. Say you can have an two 18's and a 8 to distribute between Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence. I would rather have 18 Str, and 18 Dex. That is +10 to damage (+6 Str, +4 Dex) vs +7 (+4 Dex, +4 Int, -1 Str). And against non-critables it is +6 vs -1 of the Int and Dex guy. And mine didn't require Weapon Finesse. Or I could use 1 level of Exotic Weapon Master to make it +8 damage from Strength. Even without Dex to damage, it beats your +7 from Dex and Int! And sure you would have 1 more AC than me at level 20, but I do at least 3 more damage (that is better than Power Attacking, which would also require another feat to be squeezed in).As for rogues, I wonder why would you rather have high Str than Dex. <snip>You didn't read my posts as thoroughly as you think. I don't consider Rogues meleers. Weapon Finesse is a Rogue feat. I say this a lot.Weapon Finesse is a Rogue feat. Not a warrior feat. Rogues aren't meleers. They are Sneak Attackers.Funny, it was in the same post you quoted me above.CoC is an awesome, AWESOME PrC for rogue/warrior arquetypes, btw. Hell, CoCLs kick ass in any undead-free campaign.Better also throw out plants, constructs, oozes, and elementals.My favorite build is more or less this: Scout 2/Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Dervish 10/Highland Stalker 2/Champion of Corellon 2 (more levels of scout would be nice, but the perspective of playing a gray elf with Initiate of the Faerie Mysteries is too damn good... damned favored class [wizard]).If you throw out that ADDITIONAL feat (I think you should post this build with all the feats because it seems like you have too many), the 1 less Int to Damage is off-set by the +1 Strength to damage (and the carry limit). As long as you are vague about your feats, it is very easy to over spend.Good feats, incredible AC and damage, fair skills, good saves. Don't forget to pick Expeditious Dodge (RotW) instead of Dodge, in this case.I have to say, the Mounted Combat tree, Combat Expertise tree, and Dodge tree are all good. But CoCL requires you to take the first feat in all 3! The perks of feat trees are going down the tree! Let me repeat: Being a Grey Elf for +2 Int so you can get 1 more damage is retarded as you just lost 2 Strength which is -1 damage. The Weapon Finesse + Initiate of the Fairie Mysteries argument is laughable. TWO feats.
catharz 11-16-05, 10:31 PM	No, I don't. I am saying that Int to Damage isn't the same as Strength to Damage. Int is Int no matter what you use (Light, 1H, or 2H). Strength is full with a Light or 1H (in primary hand) or Strength and a Half 2H. The only Int to damage I know of is Completely different between light, 1-H, and 2-H weapons: You get 1*Int with light weapons, and 0*Int with 1-H and 2-H. Am I missing something?
JosephKell 11-16-05, 10:36 PM	Insightful Strike is any finesse weapon.
JosephKell 11-16-05, 10:51 PM	Please note that technically a Rogue 8/Fighter 1 qualifies to enter CoCL. Or Bard 4/Paladin 4/Fighter 2. Perfectly valid because it is Charisma fueled. It really depends how fast you want to get into the class. If you shunt CoCL to the later levels (read, "qualifying to take the class after clvl 12), then yeah it is easy to get into. But having it as your 8th character level is hard to do and still be able to do other stuff. The following is from a post I was writing, that when I hit submit it timed out. ======================================== =================if you were going to build a CoC how would you do it? or if you would never build a CoC how would you build a dex or int based fighter.I would NEVER try to build a Dex based meleer. Int based is even more rediculous. I might make a Dex Augmented meleer. But I would never try an Intelligence Augmented meleer because Swashbuckler and Duelist sucks (Int to AC, but you can't wear armor). I have never seen a good use of Swashbuckler. Swashbuckler-Bladesingers are a joke. Again, Invisible Blades and other sneak attackers aren't meleers. The best CoCL's require you to do something people on this board don't like, not multiclass (a lot). CoCL requires Dex 13+ and Int 13+. Then for the best feature (Corellon's Wrath), you want some Charisma. The feat requirements are all over the board. The class is just bad. I have tried 3 times to make a build using it, and it falls apart by character level 8. Maybe a Bladesinger/Champion? Gah, the thing is just gonna suck. Maybe the only time I would suggest using Swashbuckler. And then it would be a teriary caster. Like Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Wizard 2 to get into Bladesinger. Dervish/Champ? Using Courtblade? Can't use the cheesy Exotic Weapon Master since it is a 2H weapon. Pre-Racial Modifiers 28 Pt: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 8 32 Pt: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 8 Pre-emptive Explaination of 15 Int. I am gonna drop it to 13 via Wood Elf. 3 points are spent to put Int at 15 over 13, vs the 4 points saved by having 14 Str. Or 6 points by having 16 vs 18 Str. After Racial Modifiers 28 Pt: Str 16, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8 32 Pt: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8 It just keeps falling apart! I can't make a good Dex meleer. I suggest if you want a dexterity fighter that you settle for a Sneak Attacker. The problem is anything you gain from going that route you give up more by not going Strength.
Lellindil 11-17-05, 12:42 AM	tentative build: swash1: weapon finesse, dodge swash2: swash3: insightful strike, combat expertise fight1: combat reflexes, karmic strike fight2: elusive target fight3: mounted combat CoC1: CoC2: elegant strike fight4: power attack, deft opportunist after this you can do whatever you want, take more fighter levels for feats. i would consider taking wildrunner levels for the primal scream ability (+2 str +6 dex and a bite attack IIRC) other feats that would be handy if you continue on the fighter route would be improved trip, hold the line, sidestep, twf (but i dont recomend it, too many feats if you ask me), if you do twf get double hit so you can get 2 attacks on AoO instead of 1. basicaly this character would be making use of AoO to trip or hit people that attack him. he would get int, dex and str to damage (i would probably try and use a courtblade, but rapier works). could make a large number of AoO per round, and in doing so can help control the battle field by tripping if opponents miss on their AoO or just getting a lot of additional attacks if they hit him. as for magic items, i would try and get a weapon w/ wrathful healing, some source of DR, then dex items. If this character wears armor I would try and get something that gives DR and dosent hamper your dex. dervish is also an option, my DM does not allow dervishes so i didnt include it, im not sure how common that is.
Lellindil 11-17-05, 12:45 AM	i dont have my books w/ me, im pretty sure that meets the prereqs of CoCL but if not, you get the idea i hope.
catharz 11-17-05, 02:25 AM	I can't make a good Dex meleer. I suggest if you want a dexterity fighter that you settle for a Sneak Attacker. The problem is anything you gain from going that route you give up more by not going Strength. JK, I think you're focusing on Strength too much. You've got to focus on the CoCL's strengths (not strength) to make is worthwhile, as is true for any PrC. Maybe you won't end up with a "meleer." Big deal. You have three things going for you with this PrC: Great AC, mounted combat, and the two Karmic Strike prerequisite feats. This can make for a very versatile warrior. You're going to want a better mount than a horse, so Leadership, Dragon Cohort, or some mount-granting PrC is is order. You can happily ride around shooting arrows at things (high dex, remember?). When you feel like it, charge on into combat. Turn on Karmic Strike (which you'd be an idiot to not have as a high Dex character with Dodge and Expertise). The AoOs, with a high dex, will be great. The -4 AC penalty is no big deal. You'll be wearing mithral full plate, and holding a mithral heavy or extreme shield, for a minimum AC of 13. A shield because the 2-hander is pointless when you aren't multiplying Strength damage. Then do the dragoon thing and dismount. You have an inteligent mount who can watch your back. Best case scenario, both of you have Allied Defense from Shining South. When things start looking bad, mount up and ride off. These guys are built for skirmish, and can heal themselves to a small extent. Get the Furious [A&EG] weapon enhancement on your armor spikes or shield, if possible. The versatility of being able to trade that Dex to AC for Dex to damage is pretty good with Karmic Strike, especially when that means you'll be doing 2*Dex damage with a one-hander. Oh ya, and always having the initiative is nice too.
v4l3r1o 11-18-05, 02:22 AM	What do you think about Ranger3/Barbarian2/WildRunner2/CoC10/WildRunner3 ? Feats?
allenchan 11-18-05, 02:59 AM	My favorite CoCL is a Fighter/Swashbuckler/CoCL/Dervish/Tempest that uses a Courtblade and Armor Razors (Underdark; slashing armor spikes). Elven Awesomeness. Also, following the guidelines of exotic weapons > martial weapon feats from CAdv, one would assume greatsword feats count towards courtblade, and in turn count towards your armor razors (from tempest) I agree JK is focusing too much on strength, with low PB, focusing just on dex and int is kinda sweet. Just dont play it in a campaign you know will be undead and construct heavy. Pretty simple.
Timlagor 12-07-05, 01:47 PM	NB: Razor Spikes don't work for Elegant Strike Swash/CoCL/Dervish basically has to use Scimitars. You can drop Dervish and use OTWF Rapiers or <Elf>-Blades [but the IWF won't get you into CoCL so you need Weapon Focus] You can drop Swash 3 instead and use Longswords.
Xeraph 12-07-05, 02:35 PM	I must say, I am playing in a campaign at the moment where we are the following. Lesser Aasimar(me) Feat Rogue 2/ Swash 3/ Homemade Drunken Master (gets cha to ac) 2 Human Fighter 6/ Barbarian 1 Air Genesi Rogue 3/ Fighter 2/ Invisible Blade Dwarf Druid 7 (variant who gains Wild Surge instead of Wild Shape) And I must say that what im useful for in melee is equal to nithing compared to the Human Fighter. I do have great ingame value as a i serve as a bard of type. The Air genesi is a great scout. And the druid has out tanked both me and the rogue since day one, even without wildshape. Of course with a little min max i could pick up a spiked chain and mix in mage slayer. But as it stands now, Im only good for defense, story telling, an getting to the bbeg before the others. So I agree with JK, if i was to do damage in combat, I would do the Power Attack, Shocktrooper, Leap Attack, Combat Brute, Fighter/Barbarian/Scout route anyday of the week. Its just to good to pass. As for a CoCL build i like: Rogue 5/ Swash 3/ Fighter 2/ Ranger 2/ CoCl 2/ Tempest 5/ EWM 1. You end as a decent trapscout, that can stand his own in combat. Or Scout 6/ Fighter 1/ CoCL 2/ Tempest 10/ Horizon Walker (desert) 1 With Horizon dip you will never be the same dancer. Horizon dip, dancing all night long. :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin:
pvrhye 12-07-05, 10:51 PM	Almost every build here is a 2 level dip. I've hardly call that Champion of Corellon Larethian build. I'll put some thought into one that uses the full 10 or close to it.
jameswilliamogle 12-07-05, 11:29 PM	I'm sorry if this has been said before (only read about half of the first page), but a flat Int to damage is more effective than Str to damage for TWF characters (Int x 2 > Str x 1.5), but pales when compared to 2HW fighters with feats like Power Attack and such that really boost the damage output... The real Q is will the build incorporate all the extra feats possible or not? A TWF CoC w/ Ranger levels, Swashbuckler levels, and a Rogue level totally seems to fit the bill when TWF, and should have damage output comparable to a 2HW Fighter w/ Power Attack (but has a totally different set of abilities, too). Just a thought.