building a Hag Covey need advice! [Archive] - Wizards Community

building a Hag Covey need advice! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yoho1.5
03-07-06, 11:15 AM I posted this on the monsters board and got no help, so I thought you guys might be interested in tweeking some hags. I'm looking to build a covey of hags (no night hags) that could dominate a EL 15 of giants and ogres.
-Core Only, using monster manual stats, adding templates ok, adding levels prefered.

Thus far I'm looking at:
-Sea Hag Cleric8 (strenght and magic domains)
-Green Hag Sorcerer7 (mostly battlefield control spells)
-Annis Barbarian6 (power attack, improve natural attack)
Bloodlust_the_Bold
03-07-06, 12:23 PM why not make them the trio of the most broken clasess in 3.5, an archivist, an artificier and a druid ... m thinking they'll synergize better with the artificier making the items, the archivist using dark knowledge and the druid summoning up bodyguards
Vestigial_Thumb
03-07-06, 01:30 PM why not make them the trio of the most broken clasess in 3.5, an archivist, an artificier and a druid ... m thinking they'll synergize better with the artificier making the items, the archivist using dark knowledge and the druid summoning up bodyguards
You crazed bastard! Archivists aren't overpowered.

Druids? Overpowered? Okay, maybe a little.
Bloodlust_the_Bold
03-07-06, 01:54 PM yes, I am crazy ...

did I say overpowered ... archivist broken? depending on what spells your dm allows you to get, how you maximized dark knowledge and if you dip in sacred exorcist for divine mm ... ;)
Vestigial_Thumb
03-07-06, 04:55 PM yes, I am crazy ...
Me too!
did I say overpowered ... archivist broken? depending on what spells your dm allows you to get, how you maximized dark knowledge and if you dip in sacred exorcist for divine mm ... ;)
Meh!
Faithless the Wonder Boy
03-07-06, 04:58 PM ...you DO realize he said Core-only, right?

Sorry to not input anything more productive than that at the moment, but I'll come up with some builds for you shortly. It just aggravates me to no end when people ignore posts that seem to have any kinds of restrictions like this, or worse input pointless and irrelevant stuff like the relative brokenness of classes that don't even apply here.
Vestigial_Thumb
03-07-06, 06:36 PM aggravates
ignore
pointless and irrelevant
My favorite words. I just read these words in your post and I agree; I am aggressive, ignorant, pointless, and irrelevant. T_T
Yoho1.5
03-07-06, 11:54 PM I'm presently working on the giants and ogres for te covey's thrall. They are:
1 evil Cloud Giant, as per MM, 1 fiendish eldar stonegiant, 1 troll barbarian6.
The covey doesn't have to be one of each hag but I thought one of each would provide the most variety, and options in the combat department.
runestar
03-08-06, 02:55 AM What are the ECLs of the various hags? I am guessing you will have to focus mainly around melee-oriented builds.
Yoho1.5
03-11-06, 06:43 PM I'm doing this as a DM and I didn't think of it in ECL, I'm just working in CR, under the assumption that each hag would have to be "equal" to the other in order to form an effective covey (being CE and all). Each hag would have to level up to CR 12, to make the covey EL15 an capable of dominating EL15 giants.
runestar
03-11-06, 10:35 PM Elite Opponents (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20040104a)

This page might give you some hints. But you will still need to supply the class lvs yourself.
PhaedrusXY
03-12-06, 12:29 AM Well, even "out of the box", the Hags have some syngery going on with their special abilities. The Sea Hag's Horrific Appearance does Str damage to an area, and the Green Hag has a Str draining touch attack. The damage from these combined would be pretty debilitating, even to a stout warrior. There is no limit on uses per round or day on the Green Hag's touch that I see, so I'd add some Monk levels onto it and give it the Two Weapon Fighting feats for more attacks.

The Annis Hag is a natural brawler, and has the Improved Grab, Rake and Rend abilities. These would be frighteningly effective against a foe that had seen the Sea Hag and been punched a few times by the Green Hag/Monk...

The Sea and Green hags can also function very well while in the water. And we all know how nasty the drowning and encumberance rules are for most D&D parties... And the hag's also have the ability to Animate Dead as a 9th level spellcaster. That means they could control up to 18 HD of undead.

So, here is my proposal.

Green Hag Monk2/Ranger2/Fighter2 (CR11). Feats: Improved Natural Attack (Hag1), Ability Focus: Str Drain (Hag3), Power Attack (Hag6), Combat Expertise (Hag9), TWF (rang2), ITWF (Ftr1), Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike (Ftr2), Improved Grapple (monk1), Combat Reflexes (monk2), Ability Focus: Stunning Fist(HD12), Greater TWF (HD15).

Sea Hag Bard 10 (CR12.5) Feats: Point Blank Shot (Hag1), Precise Shot (Hag3), Rapid Shot (HD6), Ability Focus: Horrific Appearance (HD9), Skill Focus: Perform (Singing) (HD12)

Annis Hag Barbarian3/Fighter2 (CR12) Feats: Multiattack (Hag 1), Power Attack (Hag 3), Improved Bull Rush (Ftr1), Awesome Blow (Ftr2), Improved Natural Attack: Claw and Bite (Hag 6, HD9)

Tactics: As mentioned, the hags have their giant allies disguised via Veil. The allies warn the hags of the approaching adventurers. The hags lair should contain a body of water, which the Green and Sea hags will start out in. Use Mirage Arcana to make this water look beautiful and inviting, when in reality it is a reeking mess filled with moss and rotting things (circumstance penalty to the Swim DC to escape it). The hags will have their identities concealed via Veil to look like a beautiful woman, along with the giants. (This is assuming the adventurers are male, etc.) Make them all look like some kind of poor, defenseless village full of gorgeous wild elven women, whose men have been off hunting for some time. ;)

Assuming the hags have some warning of the approaching adventurers, they of course buff themselves and their allies appropriately. The hags should all have Mind Blank, and the Sea Hag should use its bardic spells to buff them with whatever you want.

When the adventurers arrive, the Sea Hag should use its Fascinate ability on them, and then Suggestion on whichever one looks like the most powerful warrior that he should undress and go for a refreshing swim with her.

Once he gets in the water, the Sea Hag will reveal her Horrific Appearance affecting all the adventurers, and the Green Hag will unleash a Flurry of Blows upon the warrior. That is 7 attacks vs. his naked AC, and the warrior has to make a save vs. every attack or take 2d4 Strength damage... Don't forget that Str loss will affect his Swim checks, and Grapple checks. Once the warrior is softened up a bit, the Green Hag grapples him and drags him under the water to leave him on the bottom to drown. The hags might even have some shackels or cages under the water for this purpose, if you're really feeling evil...

The Annis Hag and giants will engage the rest of the party in melee. Once the Green Hag seems to have her current foe subdued/drowning, the Annis Hag will try to knock other foes to her using Awesome Blow. The Sea Hag will use bardic music, spells, and fire arrows from the safety of the water.

You could also stick some undead in the water. A hydra skeleton or two would be nice. ;)

If the hags get substantially wounded, they will retreat under the water to heal up via the Sea Hags spells, or escape via an underwater getaway tunnel.

I didn't bother reassinging stats, choosing spells, or giving the hags magic items, but the Green Hag will at least need her Dex increased to qualify for Greater TWF. I'd probably give the Annis Hag some way to breath underwater, also.

You might start all three hags out in the water, since the Annis Hag will really be able to rip whomever is getting their Str drained away by the Green Hag to shreds easily, and it will provide some protection for all of them. If you do that, you might give the Green Hag a level of Rogue, since the "victim" will probably be grappled or flanked. Once they have one enemy killed or so weak they can't swim out to save themselves, the Annis Hag can go back out of the water and knock another "victim" into it using Awesome Blow. The giants will hinder any approaches the "heroes" try to make to save their friend. Give aall the giants reach weapons and combat reflexes. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yoho1.5 03-07-06, 11:15 AM	I posted this on the monsters board and got no help, so I thought you guys might be interested in tweeking some hags. I'm looking to build a covey of hags (no night hags) that could dominate a EL 15 of giants and ogres. -Core Only, using monster manual stats, adding templates ok, adding levels prefered. Thus far I'm looking at: -Sea Hag Cleric8 (strenght and magic domains) -Green Hag Sorcerer7 (mostly battlefield control spells) -Annis Barbarian6 (power attack, improve natural attack)
Bloodlust_the_Bold 03-07-06, 12:23 PM	why not make them the trio of the most broken clasess in 3.5, an archivist, an artificier and a druid ... m thinking they'll synergize better with the artificier making the items, the archivist using dark knowledge and the druid summoning up bodyguards
Vestigial_Thumb 03-07-06, 01:30 PM	why not make them the trio of the most broken clasess in 3.5, an archivist, an artificier and a druid ... m thinking they'll synergize better with the artificier making the items, the archivist using dark knowledge and the druid summoning up bodyguards You crazed bastard! Archivists aren't overpowered. Druids? Overpowered? Okay, maybe a little.
Bloodlust_the_Bold 03-07-06, 01:54 PM	yes, I am crazy ... did I say overpowered ... archivist broken? depending on what spells your dm allows you to get, how you maximized dark knowledge and if you dip in sacred exorcist for divine mm ... ;)
Vestigial_Thumb 03-07-06, 04:55 PM	yes, I am crazy ... Me too! did I say overpowered ... archivist broken? depending on what spells your dm allows you to get, how you maximized dark knowledge and if you dip in sacred exorcist for divine mm ... ;) Meh!
Faithless the Wonder Boy 03-07-06, 04:58 PM	...you DO realize he said Core-only, right? Sorry to not input anything more productive than that at the moment, but I'll come up with some builds for you shortly. It just aggravates me to no end when people ignore posts that seem to have any kinds of restrictions like this, or worse input pointless and irrelevant stuff like the relative brokenness of classes that don't even apply here.
Vestigial_Thumb 03-07-06, 06:36 PM	aggravates ignore pointless and irrelevant My favorite words. I just read these words in your post and I agree; I am aggressive, ignorant, pointless, and irrelevant. T_T
Yoho1.5 03-07-06, 11:54 PM	I'm presently working on the giants and ogres for te covey's thrall. They are: 1 evil Cloud Giant, as per MM, 1 fiendish eldar stonegiant, 1 troll barbarian6. The covey doesn't have to be one of each hag but I thought one of each would provide the most variety, and options in the combat department.
runestar 03-08-06, 02:55 AM	What are the ECLs of the various hags? I am guessing you will have to focus mainly around melee-oriented builds.
Yoho1.5 03-11-06, 06:43 PM	I'm doing this as a DM and I didn't think of it in ECL, I'm just working in CR, under the assumption that each hag would have to be "equal" to the other in order to form an effective covey (being CE and all). Each hag would have to level up to CR 12, to make the covey EL15 an capable of dominating EL15 giants.
runestar 03-11-06, 10:35 PM	Elite Opponents (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20040104a) This page might give you some hints. But you will still need to supply the class lvs yourself.
PhaedrusXY 03-12-06, 12:29 AM	Well, even "out of the box", the Hags have some syngery going on with their special abilities. The Sea Hag's Horrific Appearance does Str damage to an area, and the Green Hag has a Str draining touch attack. The damage from these combined would be pretty debilitating, even to a stout warrior. There is no limit on uses per round or day on the Green Hag's touch that I see, so I'd add some Monk levels onto it and give it the Two Weapon Fighting feats for more attacks. The Annis Hag is a natural brawler, and has the Improved Grab, Rake and Rend abilities. These would be frighteningly effective against a foe that had seen the Sea Hag and been punched a few times by the Green Hag/Monk... The Sea and Green hags can also function very well while in the water. And we all know how nasty the drowning and encumberance rules are for most D&D parties... And the hag's also have the ability to Animate Dead as a 9th level spellcaster. That means they could control up to 18 HD of undead. So, here is my proposal. Green Hag Monk2/Ranger2/Fighter2 (CR11). Feats: Improved Natural Attack (Hag1), Ability Focus: Str Drain (Hag3), Power Attack (Hag6), Combat Expertise (Hag9), TWF (rang2), ITWF (Ftr1), Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike (Ftr2), Improved Grapple (monk1), Combat Reflexes (monk2), Ability Focus: Stunning Fist(HD12), Greater TWF (HD15). Sea Hag Bard 10 (CR12.5) Feats: Point Blank Shot (Hag1), Precise Shot (Hag3), Rapid Shot (HD6), Ability Focus: Horrific Appearance (HD9), Skill Focus: Perform (Singing) (HD12) Annis Hag Barbarian3/Fighter2 (CR12) Feats: Multiattack (Hag 1), Power Attack (Hag 3), Improved Bull Rush (Ftr1), Awesome Blow (Ftr2), Improved Natural Attack: Claw and Bite (Hag 6, HD9) Tactics: As mentioned, the hags have their giant allies disguised via Veil. The allies warn the hags of the approaching adventurers. The hags lair should contain a body of water, which the Green and Sea hags will start out in. Use Mirage Arcana to make this water look beautiful and inviting, when in reality it is a reeking mess filled with moss and rotting things (circumstance penalty to the Swim DC to escape it). The hags will have their identities concealed via Veil to look like a beautiful woman, along with the giants. (This is assuming the adventurers are male, etc.) Make them all look like some kind of poor, defenseless village full of gorgeous wild elven women, whose men have been off hunting for some time. ;) Assuming the hags have some warning of the approaching adventurers, they of course buff themselves and their allies appropriately. The hags should all have Mind Blank, and the Sea Hag should use its bardic spells to buff them with whatever you want. When the adventurers arrive, the Sea Hag should use its Fascinate ability on them, and then Suggestion on whichever one looks like the most powerful warrior that he should undress and go for a refreshing swim with her. Once he gets in the water, the Sea Hag will reveal her Horrific Appearance affecting all the adventurers, and the Green Hag will unleash a Flurry of Blows upon the warrior. That is 7 attacks vs. his naked AC, and the warrior has to make a save vs. every attack or take 2d4 Strength damage... Don't forget that Str loss will affect his Swim checks, and Grapple checks. Once the warrior is softened up a bit, the Green Hag grapples him and drags him under the water to leave him on the bottom to drown. The hags might even have some shackels or cages under the water for this purpose, if you're really feeling evil... The Annis Hag and giants will engage the rest of the party in melee. Once the Green Hag seems to have her current foe subdued/drowning, the Annis Hag will try to knock other foes to her using Awesome Blow. The Sea Hag will use bardic music, spells, and fire arrows from the safety of the water. You could also stick some undead in the water. A hydra skeleton or two would be nice. ;) If the hags get substantially wounded, they will retreat under the water to heal up via the Sea Hags spells, or escape via an underwater getaway tunnel. I didn't bother reassinging stats, choosing spells, or giving the hags magic items, but the Green Hag will at least need her Dex increased to qualify for Greater TWF. I'd probably give the Annis Hag some way to breath underwater, also. You might start all three hags out in the water, since the Annis Hag will really be able to rip whomever is getting their Str drained away by the Green Hag to shreds easily, and it will provide some protection for all of them. If you do that, you might give the Green Hag a level of Rogue, since the "victim" will probably be grappled or flanked. Once they have one enemy killed or so weak they can't swim out to save themselves, the Annis Hag can go back out of the water and knock another "victim" into it using Awesome Blow. The giants will hinder any approaches the "heroes" try to make to save their friend. Give aall the giants reach weapons and combat reflexes. :D