Building a Half-Celestial Tank? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a Half-Celestial Tank? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lord Otaku
10-07-06, 09:24 PM Hello. For RP reasons, I wanted to play a character who is a Half-Celestial, but for group dynamic reasons I'd like her to be the group's main close combat Tank. I know that because of the Template's penalty on Hit Dice, BAB, and Saves, this is very difficult, so I wanted to ask if anyone had any suggestions on how to do this (assuming it can be done) effectively, without causing my poor DM too many grey hairs.

He hasn't ok-ed the Template yet. I think he isn't aware of how underpowered it can make a tank, and thinks it might be broken. I'm hopping to show him I can be trusted with making an "outside the box" character, so your advise is very appreciated.
PhoenixInferno
10-07-06, 09:36 PM Your only hope of using the Half-Celestial effectively is to use the one in BoED that's LA+2. Otherwise, you can kiss your main tank goodbye. If you're really looking for that good-aligned outsider feel, you can try an Aasimar. If you have Races of Faerun, there's some feats you can take to strengthen your Celestial heritage.
Lord Otaku
10-08-06, 03:18 AM What page of the BoED's can I find that one one?
Lord Otaku
10-08-06, 05:08 PM :bump:
Lord Otaku
10-09-06, 07:12 AM Thank you, PhoenixInferno!

I've looked it over, and was surprised that it is the same template as in the Monster Manual with a reduced ECL of 2. (I thought it was going to be a reduced Template, orriginaly.) I'm also looking at the optional rule of buying off ECL with Experiance Points, as outlined in Unearthed Arcana.

I assume I probibly shouldn't use both rules together, correct? I'm guessing the revised ECL in BoED's was to take in account the problems of ECL penalties on characters, which the Buying off ECL optional rules from UA are also trying to address, so using both might not be fair. What do you think? Am I being overly cautious, and the two rules work fairly together?
Prominence
10-09-06, 07:19 AM The LA+2 of BoED assumes you only have the abilities a half-celestial of 2 HD would have. So, you basically gain everything except the SLA's.

La Buy Off is always better.
Lord Otaku
10-09-06, 07:33 AM The LA+2 of BoED assumes you only have the abilities a half-celestial of 2 HD would have. So, you basically gain everything except the SLA's.

I thought that was only in regaurd to Hit Dice (as in a creature's starting Monster Hit Dice) and not character class levels. Am I wrong?

La Buy Off is always better.

Yes. I think this is the fairest policy. I will ask my DM if I can use this option only. I want to show I am honest about not trying to build a broken character, and buying off ECL seems very fair, without neutering the tank, especially when you consider the Experience Costs to make magic items or cast powerful spells.
Prominence
10-09-06, 07:42 AM Perhaps I should rephrase.

LA buy off is always better than no LA Buy Off.
LA+2 is playable as a tank, LA+4 isn't.
FriendlyFrog
10-09-06, 08:27 AM I thought that was only in regaurd to Hit Dice (as in a creature's starting Monster Hit Dice) and not character class levels. Am I wrong?
In general HD tends to mean racial HD + class levels, but sometimes it's supposed to mean only racial HD. The normal Half-celestial from Monter manual gets spell-like abilities based on your total HD, but the one in BoED is supposed to get them only based on your racial HD (which most PC's don't have at all).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord Otaku 10-07-06, 09:24 PM	Hello. For RP reasons, I wanted to play a character who is a Half-Celestial, but for group dynamic reasons I'd like her to be the group's main close combat Tank. I know that because of the Template's penalty on Hit Dice, BAB, and Saves, this is very difficult, so I wanted to ask if anyone had any suggestions on how to do this (assuming it can be done) effectively, without causing my poor DM too many grey hairs. He hasn't ok-ed the Template yet. I think he isn't aware of how underpowered it can make a tank, and thinks it might be broken. I'm hopping to show him I can be trusted with making an "outside the box" character, so your advise is very appreciated.
PhoenixInferno 10-07-06, 09:36 PM	Your only hope of using the Half-Celestial effectively is to use the one in BoED that's LA+2. Otherwise, you can kiss your main tank goodbye. If you're really looking for that good-aligned outsider feel, you can try an Aasimar. If you have Races of Faerun, there's some feats you can take to strengthen your Celestial heritage.
Lord Otaku 10-08-06, 03:18 AM	What page of the BoED's can I find that one one?
Lord Otaku 10-08-06, 05:08 PM	:bump:
Lord Otaku 10-09-06, 07:12 AM	Thank you, PhoenixInferno! I've looked it over, and was surprised that it is the same template as in the Monster Manual with a reduced ECL of 2. (I thought it was going to be a reduced Template, orriginaly.) I'm also looking at the optional rule of buying off ECL with Experiance Points, as outlined in Unearthed Arcana. I assume I probibly shouldn't use both rules together, correct? I'm guessing the revised ECL in BoED's was to take in account the problems of ECL penalties on characters, which the Buying off ECL optional rules from UA are also trying to address, so using both might not be fair. What do you think? Am I being overly cautious, and the two rules work fairly together?
Prominence 10-09-06, 07:19 AM	The LA+2 of BoED assumes you only have the abilities a half-celestial of 2 HD would have. So, you basically gain everything except the SLA's. La Buy Off is always better.
Lord Otaku 10-09-06, 07:33 AM	The LA+2 of BoED assumes you only have the abilities a half-celestial of 2 HD would have. So, you basically gain everything except the SLA's. I thought that was only in regaurd to Hit Dice (as in a creature's starting Monster Hit Dice) and not character class levels. Am I wrong? La Buy Off is always better. Yes. I think this is the fairest policy. I will ask my DM if I can use this option only. I want to show I am honest about not trying to build a broken character, and buying off ECL seems very fair, without neutering the tank, especially when you consider the Experience Costs to make magic items or cast powerful spells.
Prominence 10-09-06, 07:42 AM	Perhaps I should rephrase. LA buy off is always better than no LA Buy Off. LA+2 is playable as a tank, LA+4 isn't.
FriendlyFrog 10-09-06, 08:27 AM	I thought that was only in regaurd to Hit Dice (as in a creature's starting Monster Hit Dice) and not character class levels. Am I wrong? In general HD tends to mean racial HD + class levels, but sometimes it's supposed to mean only racial HD. The normal Half-celestial from Monter manual gets spell-like abilities based on your total HD, but the one in BoED is supposed to get them only based on your racial HD (which most PC's don't have at all).