Building a Hexblade: multiclass or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a Hexblade: multiclass or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tal'eth
04-21-05, 03:13 PM I am considering playing a Hexblade as my next character and was curious if anyone had suggestions as to how to go about building him. Looking at the Hexblade class, it would almost seem the best route is to stay in the class and not multiclass at all. But I may be missing something.

Thanks for your help!!
Take care :)
UMiskatonic
04-21-05, 04:15 PM One tactic is to multiclass into one or more of the classes that will benefit from your high charisma. One level of Marshal, blackguard, iajitsu master, and so forth.

What sort of hexblade do you want to be? An archer, a tumbling TWF, an imposing crusher in heavy armor? All of these are possible.

In short, it depends on what you want.

In my opinion, hexblade/warlock is very cool.
Zemyla
04-21-05, 04:29 PM Also, take a 2-level dip in Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) if you want. Cha to AC.
ninjarabbit
04-21-05, 10:08 PM I like to take a level of cleric for divine metamagic, heavier armor so I can use battle caster, and the 2 domains which can add up to 2 feats.
SigmaJargon
04-21-05, 11:17 PM I like to take a level of cleric for divine metamagic, heavier armor so I can use battle caster, and the 2 domains which can add up to 2 feats.I can't see a one level dip of cleric for Divine Meta being useful. There aren't any exceptional level 1 spells to persistant (or apply any other metamagic to, for that matter) that are worth the loss of skills/bab. On the other hand, if you take the cleric for a.) the domains (things like time and luck) and b.) divine might or some other turn based booster feat then it might be worth it.
Kingside_Bishop
04-22-05, 12:42 AM Two levels of Rogue are useful. Take that with the Able Learner feat, and you'll have someone who can disarm a trap and sneak around quite well, with a half-decent intelligence, and has both Mettle and Evasion. With your Cha bonus to saves vs. spells, that's quite handy. I can attest to that. Then, simply go into a class with good Cha synergy, as suggested above. Blackguard comes highly recommended (for a three level dip, anyway).
Mr. Dog
04-22-05, 01:07 AM hexblade/paladin of tyranny/monk

Evasion, mettle, charisma to saves, charisma to saves again vs spells and spell like abilities, and wis+dex to AC.

1 monk - feat, bonus feat, flurry, unarmed, wis to ac
2 monk - bonus feat, evasion
3 hexblade - Curse, Feat
4 hexblade - Cha to saves vs spells/spell-like
5 Paladin of tyranny - Detect good, etc.
6 Paladin of tyranny - Divine Grace
7 hexblade - Mettle

Cobra Strike Monk variant from Dragon or UA is best, as it gives dodge and mobility instead of the normal monk jazz at 1 and 2.
If you want, you can take another level of hexblade here (8th) to get 1st level arcane casting and a familiar, and to qualify for Arcane Duelist. This can net you charisma to AC and free bonus damage on every swing, up to your BAB.
I'll explain.

Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)

Look at the class. Everyone knows about Charisma to AC at 2. The cool bit is level 3.

Dexterous Attack (Ex): Because the arcane duelist values successful hits over actual damage dealt, she can subtract damage from her chosen melee weapon's potential damage and add the same amount to her attack bonus. However, the weapon must do a minimum 1 point of damage. For example, the arcane duelist who wields a rapier as her chosen weapon can subtract up to 5 points from the damage, since the rapier has a damage potential of 6 points, and add that to her attack bonus. If she were wielding a +3 rapier, she could subtract up to 8 points from damage, since the weapon has a damage potential of 9 points, and add that to her attack bonus. The arcane duelist declares this power before rolling her attack, and the amount subtracted cannot exceed her base attack bonus.

Okay. So here goes: In 3.5, power attack gives +2 to damage for every -1 to hit with a two handed weapon.

So use a greatsword, falchion, etc. Use power attack up to your BAB.
-x to hit, +2x to damage. X may not exceed BAB.
Now apply Dexterous Attack.
-y to damage, +y to hit. Y may not exceed BAB.

net effect, BAB -x +y = BAB when x and y are the same number.

Damage is 2d6 (or whatever the weapon deals) +2x - y.

So, if you take 5 from your hit roll with power attack, you get 10 damage. Take away 5 damage from Dexterous attack, get +5 to hit, replacing the penalty from power attack, but leaving a net +5 damage at no hit penalty.

All day long. Free bonus damage equal to BAB on every swing.

Also, your weapon beats DR/magic, even in an anti-magic field. The extra +1 to the weapon ehancement from 1st level is an (Ex) ability. :D

So you end up with 3 stats to AC, Charisma x2 to your saves, free bonus damage, evasion and mettle, etc.
Tytalus
04-22-05, 04:51 AM Cobra Strike Monk is a very good call.

If you don't like the monk flavour, consider 2 levels of UA's generic warrior. Clearly weaker than the monk on saves, but you can choose fun stuff like Evasion, 2D6 sneak attack damage, and (greater) Uncanny Dodge as your bonus feats.

As a chaotic version of Mr.Dog's excellent suggestion, consider this:

Gen. Warrior 2/Paladin of Slaughter 2/Hexblade 4/Arcane Duelist 3

Variants:

- 2 levels of Bard also net you 1st level arcane spells (to qualify for Arcane Duelist), allowing you to drop the 4th (and maybe 3rd level of Hexblade) and also opens the door for Snowflake Wardance [Frostburn], essentially giving you even more CHA-synergy: CHA to hit.

- 1-2 levels of Barbarian for Rage and Fast Movement. Take the Extra Rage feat.

- 2-3 levels of Blackguard. Yet again CHA to saves (stacks with the Hexblade's bonus and with the Paladin's bonus by RAW), undead tuning (--> divine might, yet another CHA synergy: CHA to damage).

- Up to 8 level of Disciple of Dispater [Book of Vile Darkness]. Nice tank PrC. Gives you increased chances to crit, and some minor damage boni. Where's the Synergy? All extra damage (Power Attack - as explained by Mr. Dog, Divine Might, Iron Hews, etc.) gets multiplied on a crit.
Tal'eth
04-22-05, 01:49 PM Thanks to all of you for your responses!!

Your suggestions are proving most helpful. So helpful, in fact, that I'm having a hard time deciding which route to go (that's a good thing). I was unaware of the Arcane Duelist class, and may not have ever realized how the Dexterous Attack ability stacks so nicely with Power Attack.

As a follow up question, is there documentation anywhere that clearly states that the CHA to saves feature stacks for such class combos as Hexblade and Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter?

Thanks again for all your help!!
AramilWindwalker
04-22-05, 02:11 PM if each is an unnamed or or different(ie one is deflection, other is profane, possibly a third unnamed) then I believe RAW it would stack, unless there is rule about adding a stat to ac, saves etc more than once.

according to the SRD...

Nymph's cha to saves is unnamed
as is paladins
and the blackguards is also
can't vouch for hexblade though

hmm... evil nymph paladin of tyranny2/blackguard2/monk2/pious templar1
and it's ecl 20! My DM is gonna hate me

make a will save
does a 66 save?
:eek: ...yes
Tal'eth
04-22-05, 02:38 PM Thanks Aramil...that's helpful. The Hexblade bonus is not named either, so I would assume it would stack as well.

Take care:)
AramilWindwalker
04-22-05, 02:50 PM what level does hexblade gain that little gem?

Edit: the saves(assuming 10 in all scores before racial adj)in above build
fort+28(mettle on it)
ref+23(evasion on it)
will+25(mettle on it)

Not bad considering this is with tens and no magic items or level boosts.
Khazra Reborn
04-22-05, 04:06 PM If you can find a good way to qualify for it without to many hexblade levels acolyte of the skin is really cool.
Hexblade7/human paragon3/spellsword1/acolyte of the skin10 is a pretty cool & scary character.

PS. Would practice spellcaster let me qualify with only 6 levels of hexblade casting?
RadicalTaoist
04-22-05, 04:11 PM Yes, practiced spellcaster can allow you access to PrCs.
If you're going to go Hexblade, either go for only 3 levels (gets you mettle and arcane resistance) or go the whole way (only way for full BAB and spellcasting progression - Arcane Strike baby!).
Khazra Reborn
04-22-05, 04:24 PM so hexblade3/human paragon3/dragonslayer1/acolyte of skin10, 17 levels
How do i finish? dragon disciple 3 is tempting...more NA & +4 str never hurt a combat character?
Xperiment
04-22-05, 04:54 PM Hexblade 3/Palidan 2/Blackguard 2/Cobra Strike Monk 2/Arcane Duelist 3/Disciple of Dispator 8

Kind of tough on feats... but thats CHA to saves*3... Bulk up the AC and the only thing you'll be complaining about is the scratches on your armor.

Thats also +17 BAB, ready for epic levels.
Tal'eth
04-22-05, 07:50 PM Aramil...

Hexblades gain Arcane Resistance at level 2, which gives them a bonus equal to their Charisma bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.

They also gain Mettle at level 3 vs Fortitude and Will saves.
AramilWindwalker
04-22-05, 08:03 PM Thanks, that could be useful...
RadicalTaoist
04-22-05, 09:23 PM so hexblade3/human paragon3/dragonslayer1/acolyte of skin10, 17 levels
How do i finish? dragon disciple 3 is tempting...more NA & +4 str never hurt a combat character?
Ah ah ah, you don't get any spells from Hexblade until lvl 4. Use those three spare levels to go into some spellcasting class, warlock would be good.
Mr. Dog
04-22-05, 11:50 PM human paragon would advance his hexblade casting at level 2 and 3. That would kick him up to level 5 hexblade casting, which is still 1st level spells.
Debonair
04-28-05, 04:09 PM I had a Hexblade3/Rogue3/Kensai8 who was a greatsword fighter. Evasion and Mettle, power attack, Surge (I'd power attack away the hit bonus), Combat Brute, and Improved Feint. Decent skill selection (including UMD), lotsa defence, and a pretty solid damage output. He was Lawful Neutral and a champion of Osiris (Egyptian pantheon). Tons of fun.
RadicalTaoist
04-28-05, 04:19 PM human paragon would advance his hexblade casting at level 2 and 3. That would kick him up to level 5 hexblade casting, which is still 1st level spells.
'Fraid not. He doesn't have any Hexblade Spellcasting at all until you take Hexblade level 4.
Neither Human Paragon nor any PrC can advance spellcasting that doesn't exist.
ninjarabbit
04-28-05, 05:37 PM Another hexblade build I'm starting to like is hexblade16/dragondisciple4.

+4 str, +2 natural armor, 4d12 hit dice, a few extra spells per day, and a needed boost to the fortitude save. You're still very much a hexblade flavorwise, not just dipping in it.
Tal'eth
04-28-05, 09:02 PM Thanks to everyone that has responded to my thread---you have all been very helpful!!

now I just need to decide which idea to go with......hehe
Warlord Griffin
04-30-05, 09:11 PM The problem with the hexblade is that while it is a decent melee build it can be made much more powerful with multi-classing, especially since all of its basic goodies come out in the first four or five levels, after that it starts to get kind of weak, even though the spell selection is very nice. I have a build that might be just the powerhouse you have been looking for, if you do not mind a horde of undead minions and 9th level cleric spells added in :D .
Take a look at it and the other build and tell me what you think.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=420816

"I prefer to defeat my opponent's the old fashioned way, BRUTALLY!" :fight!: -Dinobot on Beast Wars: Transformers

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tal'eth 04-21-05, 03:13 PM	I am considering playing a Hexblade as my next character and was curious if anyone had suggestions as to how to go about building him. Looking at the Hexblade class, it would almost seem the best route is to stay in the class and not multiclass at all. But I may be missing something. Thanks for your help!! Take care :)
UMiskatonic 04-21-05, 04:15 PM	One tactic is to multiclass into one or more of the classes that will benefit from your high charisma. One level of Marshal, blackguard, iajitsu master, and so forth. What sort of hexblade do you want to be? An archer, a tumbling TWF, an imposing crusher in heavy armor? All of these are possible. In short, it depends on what you want. In my opinion, hexblade/warlock is very cool.
Zemyla 04-21-05, 04:29 PM	Also, take a 2-level dip in Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) if you want. Cha to AC.
ninjarabbit 04-21-05, 10:08 PM	I like to take a level of cleric for divine metamagic, heavier armor so I can use battle caster, and the 2 domains which can add up to 2 feats.
SigmaJargon 04-21-05, 11:17 PM	I like to take a level of cleric for divine metamagic, heavier armor so I can use battle caster, and the 2 domains which can add up to 2 feats.I can't see a one level dip of cleric for Divine Meta being useful. There aren't any exceptional level 1 spells to persistant (or apply any other metamagic to, for that matter) that are worth the loss of skills/bab. On the other hand, if you take the cleric for a.) the domains (things like time and luck) and b.) divine might or some other turn based booster feat then it might be worth it.
Kingside_Bishop 04-22-05, 12:42 AM	Two levels of Rogue are useful. Take that with the Able Learner feat, and you'll have someone who can disarm a trap and sneak around quite well, with a half-decent intelligence, and has both Mettle and Evasion. With your Cha bonus to saves vs. spells, that's quite handy. I can attest to that. Then, simply go into a class with good Cha synergy, as suggested above. Blackguard comes highly recommended (for a three level dip, anyway).
Mr. Dog 04-22-05, 01:07 AM	hexblade/paladin of tyranny/monk Evasion, mettle, charisma to saves, charisma to saves again vs spells and spell like abilities, and wis+dex to AC. 1 monk - feat, bonus feat, flurry, unarmed, wis to ac 2 monk - bonus feat, evasion 3 hexblade - Curse, Feat 4 hexblade - Cha to saves vs spells/spell-like 5 Paladin of tyranny - Detect good, etc. 6 Paladin of tyranny - Divine Grace 7 hexblade - Mettle Cobra Strike Monk variant from Dragon or UA is best, as it gives dodge and mobility instead of the normal monk jazz at 1 and 2. If you want, you can take another level of hexblade here (8th) to get 1st level arcane casting and a familiar, and to qualify for Arcane Duelist. This can net you charisma to AC and free bonus damage on every swing, up to your BAB. I'll explain. Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) Look at the class. Everyone knows about Charisma to AC at 2. The cool bit is level 3. Dexterous Attack (Ex): Because the arcane duelist values successful hits over actual damage dealt, she can subtract damage from her chosen melee weapon's potential damage and add the same amount to her attack bonus. However, the weapon must do a minimum 1 point of damage. For example, the arcane duelist who wields a rapier as her chosen weapon can subtract up to 5 points from the damage, since the rapier has a damage potential of 6 points, and add that to her attack bonus. If she were wielding a +3 rapier, she could subtract up to 8 points from damage, since the weapon has a damage potential of 9 points, and add that to her attack bonus. The arcane duelist declares this power before rolling her attack, and the amount subtracted cannot exceed her base attack bonus. Okay. So here goes: In 3.5, power attack gives +2 to damage for every -1 to hit with a two handed weapon. So use a greatsword, falchion, etc. Use power attack up to your BAB. -x to hit, +2x to damage. X may not exceed BAB. Now apply Dexterous Attack. -y to damage, +y to hit. Y may not exceed BAB. net effect, BAB -x +y = BAB when x and y are the same number. Damage is 2d6 (or whatever the weapon deals) +2x - y. So, if you take 5 from your hit roll with power attack, you get 10 damage. Take away 5 damage from Dexterous attack, get +5 to hit, replacing the penalty from power attack, but leaving a net +5 damage at no hit penalty. All day long. Free bonus damage equal to BAB on every swing. Also, your weapon beats DR/magic, even in an anti-magic field. The extra +1 to the weapon ehancement from 1st level is an (Ex) ability. :D So you end up with 3 stats to AC, Charisma x2 to your saves, free bonus damage, evasion and mettle, etc.
Tytalus 04-22-05, 04:51 AM	Cobra Strike Monk is a very good call. If you don't like the monk flavour, consider 2 levels of UA's generic warrior. Clearly weaker than the monk on saves, but you can choose fun stuff like Evasion, 2D6 sneak attack damage, and (greater) Uncanny Dodge as your bonus feats. As a chaotic version of Mr.Dog's excellent suggestion, consider this: Gen. Warrior 2/Paladin of Slaughter 2/Hexblade 4/Arcane Duelist 3 Variants: - 2 levels of Bard also net you 1st level arcane spells (to qualify for Arcane Duelist), allowing you to drop the 4th (and maybe 3rd level of Hexblade) and also opens the door for Snowflake Wardance [Frostburn], essentially giving you even more CHA-synergy: CHA to hit. - 1-2 levels of Barbarian for Rage and Fast Movement. Take the Extra Rage feat. - 2-3 levels of Blackguard. Yet again CHA to saves (stacks with the Hexblade's bonus and with the Paladin's bonus by RAW), undead tuning (--> divine might, yet another CHA synergy: CHA to damage). - Up to 8 level of Disciple of Dispater [Book of Vile Darkness]. Nice tank PrC. Gives you increased chances to crit, and some minor damage boni. Where's the Synergy? All extra damage (Power Attack - as explained by Mr. Dog, Divine Might, Iron Hews, etc.) gets multiplied on a crit.
Tal'eth 04-22-05, 01:49 PM	Thanks to all of you for your responses!! Your suggestions are proving most helpful. So helpful, in fact, that I'm having a hard time deciding which route to go (that's a good thing). I was unaware of the Arcane Duelist class, and may not have ever realized how the Dexterous Attack ability stacks so nicely with Power Attack. As a follow up question, is there documentation anywhere that clearly states that the CHA to saves feature stacks for such class combos as Hexblade and Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter? Thanks again for all your help!!
AramilWindwalker 04-22-05, 02:11 PM	if each is an unnamed or or different(ie one is deflection, other is profane, possibly a third unnamed) then I believe RAW it would stack, unless there is rule about adding a stat to ac, saves etc more than once. according to the SRD... Nymph's cha to saves is unnamed as is paladins and the blackguards is also can't vouch for hexblade though hmm... evil nymph paladin of tyranny2/blackguard2/monk2/pious templar1 and it's ecl 20! My DM is gonna hate me make a will save does a 66 save? :eek: ...yes
Tal'eth 04-22-05, 02:38 PM	Thanks Aramil...that's helpful. The Hexblade bonus is not named either, so I would assume it would stack as well. Take care:)
AramilWindwalker 04-22-05, 02:50 PM	what level does hexblade gain that little gem? Edit: the saves(assuming 10 in all scores before racial adj)in above build fort+28(mettle on it) ref+23(evasion on it) will+25(mettle on it) Not bad considering this is with tens and no magic items or level boosts.
Khazra Reborn 04-22-05, 04:06 PM	If you can find a good way to qualify for it without to many hexblade levels acolyte of the skin is really cool. Hexblade7/human paragon3/spellsword1/acolyte of the skin10 is a pretty cool & scary character. PS. Would practice spellcaster let me qualify with only 6 levels of hexblade casting?
RadicalTaoist 04-22-05, 04:11 PM	Yes, practiced spellcaster can allow you access to PrCs. If you're going to go Hexblade, either go for only 3 levels (gets you mettle and arcane resistance) or go the whole way (only way for full BAB and spellcasting progression - Arcane Strike baby!).
Khazra Reborn 04-22-05, 04:24 PM	so hexblade3/human paragon3/dragonslayer1/acolyte of skin10, 17 levels How do i finish? dragon disciple 3 is tempting...more NA & +4 str never hurt a combat character?
Xperiment 04-22-05, 04:54 PM	Hexblade 3/Palidan 2/Blackguard 2/Cobra Strike Monk 2/Arcane Duelist 3/Disciple of Dispator 8 Kind of tough on feats... but thats CHA to saves*3... Bulk up the AC and the only thing you'll be complaining about is the scratches on your armor. Thats also +17 BAB, ready for epic levels.
Tal'eth 04-22-05, 07:50 PM	Aramil... Hexblades gain Arcane Resistance at level 2, which gives them a bonus equal to their Charisma bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects. They also gain Mettle at level 3 vs Fortitude and Will saves.
AramilWindwalker 04-22-05, 08:03 PM	Thanks, that could be useful...
RadicalTaoist 04-22-05, 09:23 PM	so hexblade3/human paragon3/dragonslayer1/acolyte of skin10, 17 levels How do i finish? dragon disciple 3 is tempting...more NA & +4 str never hurt a combat character? Ah ah ah, you don't get any spells from Hexblade until lvl 4. Use those three spare levels to go into some spellcasting class, warlock would be good.
Mr. Dog 04-22-05, 11:50 PM	human paragon would advance his hexblade casting at level 2 and 3. That would kick him up to level 5 hexblade casting, which is still 1st level spells.
Debonair 04-28-05, 04:09 PM	I had a Hexblade3/Rogue3/Kensai8 who was a greatsword fighter. Evasion and Mettle, power attack, Surge (I'd power attack away the hit bonus), Combat Brute, and Improved Feint. Decent skill selection (including UMD), lotsa defence, and a pretty solid damage output. He was Lawful Neutral and a champion of Osiris (Egyptian pantheon). Tons of fun.
RadicalTaoist 04-28-05, 04:19 PM	human paragon would advance his hexblade casting at level 2 and 3. That would kick him up to level 5 hexblade casting, which is still 1st level spells. 'Fraid not. He doesn't have any Hexblade Spellcasting at all until you take Hexblade level 4. Neither Human Paragon nor any PrC can advance spellcasting that doesn't exist.
ninjarabbit 04-28-05, 05:37 PM	Another hexblade build I'm starting to like is hexblade16/dragondisciple4. +4 str, +2 natural armor, 4d12 hit dice, a few extra spells per day, and a needed boost to the fortitude save. You're still very much a hexblade flavorwise, not just dipping in it.
Tal'eth 04-28-05, 09:02 PM	Thanks to everyone that has responded to my thread---you have all been very helpful!! now I just need to decide which idea to go with......hehe
Warlord Griffin 04-30-05, 09:11 PM	The problem with the hexblade is that while it is a decent melee build it can be made much more powerful with multi-classing, especially since all of its basic goodies come out in the first four or five levels, after that it starts to get kind of weak, even though the spell selection is very nice. I have a build that might be just the powerhouse you have been looking for, if you do not mind a horde of undead minions and 9th level cleric spells added in :D . Take a look at it and the other build and tell me what you think. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=420816 "I prefer to defeat my opponent's the old fashioned way, BRUTALLY!" :fight!: -Dinobot on Beast Wars: Transformers