Building a Raptoran. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a Raptoran. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lord Nat
03-16-05, 05:29 PM I want to build a Dragoonish (FF style) Raptoran.

So far what I got is 5 levels of fighter and 10 levels of Stormtalon.

That gives me a Fly speed of 110 (40 form race and 70 from Stormtalon) so I can make the Dive Attacks easy (times 2 damage from race, plus 3d6 from a feet).

Going to use a Halberd for my weapon so I will be doing 1d10 + 3d6 + 9 + 2 X2.
So I come out 60 max (180 on a crit)...

I can pull this off once a round some what easy if I have the right feats.

For feat I was looking at
L1: Weapon Focus (Halberd), Run (to get 550 move speed if I need to get out fast)
L2: Expeditious Dodge (+2 to AC)
L3: Diving Chage (for the 3d6)
L4: Weapon Spec (Halberd)
L6: Quick Draw
L7: Improved Flight
L9: Wingover, Power Attack
L11: Flyby Attack
L12: Cleave
L13: Aerial Superiority
L15: Great Cleave

So I got the my main attack with my killer dive and I can Cleave off it as well.
But what to do with the next 5 levels?

I was looking into Dervish (I'd need to change some feats around I know but I am thinking about that anyway) for the fact that I can move around alot to make full use of all my attacks but only taking 5 levels of it means I still love my Dive (as it is a Change attack) till the end of combat...

So any one got any ideas how to make this better?
Tempest Stormwind
03-16-05, 05:56 PM I don't yet have Races of the Wild, but I assume you plan on Flyby-attacking?

If so, your charges won't work -- you can't move after a charge, last I checked. There could be some feat in Races of the Wild that allows this, but if not, it puts a serious crimp in how I'm reading his tactics.

I'll see if I can help once this has been sorted.
Lord Nat
03-16-05, 05:59 PM I don't yet have Races of the Wild, but I assume you plan on Flyby-attacking?

If so, your charges won't work -- you can't move after a charge, last I checked. There could be some feat in Races of the Wild that allows this, but if not, it puts a serious crimp in how I'm reading his tactics.

Dive is from the race.
You have to move at lest 30 feet and at lest 10 feet of it have to be down.
If you hit you do times 2 damage.

The race is on the main site just look up Races of Wild.
Tempest Stormwind
03-16-05, 06:11 PM Dive is from the race.
You have to move at lest 30 feet and at lest 10 feet of it have to be down.
If you hit you do times 2 damage.

The race is on the main site just look up Races of Wild.
I read that. However, it's still a Charge, which is the problem with a flyer -- he can't Flyby Attack afterward, and he's no longer in position to repeat the charge (which is one of the key Lancer strengths -- to charge every round, regardless of position, by liberally triggering Battle Jump).
Lord Nat
03-16-05, 06:15 PM I read that. However, it's still a Charge, which is the problem with a flyer -- he can't Flyby Attack afterward, and he's no longer in position to repeat the charge (which is one of the key Lancer strengths -- to charge every round, regardless of position, by liberally triggering Battle Jump).

The dive is an attack in it's self is I am not using Flyby Attack to do it.
I have Flyby Attack for when I am getting ready for the next one again.
I fly up at an angle and hit it as I go by then Wing Over and drop back down on it.
insatium
03-16-05, 07:34 PM I can think of one way to make this ridiculous if you are lawful and OA is allowed. Singh Rager 4. Pounce. 'Nuff said in a build like this, I think. The only problem is the required Ki Shout feat, which requires Cha 15. It needs Iron Will as well, but that should help cover a weakness of the build anyway. Upon looking at the build, Aerial Superiority looks like the most easily dropped. That and Weapon Specialization. The extra one damage is not nearly as impressive as the sick damage Pounce pulls off on a build like this one. Fighter 5 is also worthless because of the dead level, Ftr 2/Rgr 3 is better.

NOTE: I don't actually HAVE RoW yet, so forgive me if I accidentally made Stormtalon null and void by dropping a feat somewhere.

(fairly) Simple Build:
Lawful Alignment
Raptoran Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Stormtalon 10/Singh Rager 5 (go ranged in Ranger for footbow useage in a pinch, aerial archers are effective)
Ftr1: Iron Will
1HD: Run
Ftr2: Expeditious Dodge
3HD: Diving Charge
6HD: Improved Flight
9HD: WF: Halberd
12HD: Ki Shout
15HD: Wingover
18HD: Leap Attack

Singh Rager also has d12 HD so you can take some punishment. Leap Attack useage depends on whether or not your DM adjucates that Jump can be used airborne, ie one powerful beat of the wings to lift you up and then dive down. This also is borne up mechanically by the Jump description's lack of specification for a type of speed.

More Complex Build (uses psionics): http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5690904#post5690904

Scroll up a few posts to Kessalin Talira's post. That one has quite a good Raptoran Lancer build. It may be possible to swap Singh Rager in for some of the Fighter levels, but I doubt it due to the number of necessary feats.
Lord Nat
03-16-05, 08:21 PM Well the main thing I am looking at right now is to get ok power (if it is to powerful my DM will get tell me no) and a lot of speed with some power on the ground still.

I can't go pure air as I know my DM will toss us underground from time to time and having no room to fly will kill me off fast if I keep a pure air build.

I am only really looking at the fighter as it gives me the BAB I need for getting Stormtalon at level 5 (only needs BAB +5 to take it and that is it).

So any full BaB class will do it for me I just kind find one that will fully do it for me.

I was looking at Scout 10/Stormtalon 10 to get that 3d6 AC +2 (Seeing as to dive I need to move more then 10ft anyway it is almost free ^_^) and then I'd still get that on foot to so I'd at lest have some ground power.
Tempest Stormwind
03-16-05, 08:30 PM I can think of one way to make this ridiculous if you are lawful and OA is allowed. Singh Rager 4. Pounce. 'Nuff said in a build like this, I think. The only problem is the required Ki Shout feat, which requires Cha 15. It needs Iron Will as well, but that should help cover a weakness of the build anyway. Upon looking at the build, Aerial Superiority looks like the most easily dropped. That and Weapon Specialization. The extra one damage is not nearly as impressive as the sick damage Pounce pulls off on a build like this one. Fighter 5 is also worthless because of the dead level, Ftr 2/Rgr 3 is better.

The Grand Compilation of Full-Attack Charging PC Tricks
(by approximate level of availability)
BOOKS NOT INCLUDED: Sandstorm, Races of the Wild, Lost Empires of Faerun

1) Snow Tiger Berserker feat (berserker lodge feat (RP restriction), light weapons only, Unapproachable East)
1) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, human only, single light weapon only, Shining South)
4) Psionic Lion's Charge (2nd level psywar power, augments to add damage to each attack, Expanded Psionic's Handbook)
5) Lion's Charge (3rd level druid / 4th level ranger spell, most recent version Miniatures Handbook)
5) Wild Shape (Fleshraker, Monster Manual III)
6) Lion's Pounce Wild Feat (Complete Divine)
7) Polymorph spell (many forms grant Pounce or similar abilities)
7) Metamorphosis power (as Polymorph, but might require Supernatural Transformation)
8) Wild Shape (Tiger) (If Core-only.)
11) Lion's Pounce (4th level Sigh Rager prestige class ability, Oriental Adventures)
12) Lion's Pounce (5th level Lion of Talisid prestige class ability, Book of Exalted Deeds)
17) Shapechange spell (many forms grant Pounce or an extra move action, or even the Choker.)
17) Greater Metamorphosis power (As Shapechange, but may require Supernatural Transformation)
21) Dire Charge epic feat (Widely accepted as at least slightly underpowered, only works in the first round, but works regardless of your equipment or magic availability. Draconomicon)

Variable level: Claws of the Leopard (spiked gauntlets, Complete Adventurer, priced at 38,305. Only works with the claws themselves).

Note that the Great Granddaddy of Wild Shape, the Mulhorandi Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a), may be able to pull off some of these far earlier than other characters.

With sufficient cheatery twinks, anything is possible.

Runner-ups (those with similar abilities that do not exactly count as charging):
Full Mounted Attack (Cavalier, CW)
Dervish Dance (Dervish, CW)
Hustle (Psychic Warrior / Egoist power, XPH)
Wild Plains Offensive (Wild Plains Outrider, CV)
Shadow Pounce (Teflammar Shadowlord, UE)
Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, two light weapons only, Shining South)

There's more than one way to Pounce without Sigh Rager. :p
insatium
03-17-05, 07:07 PM That just seemed like the easiest off the top of my head...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord Nat 03-16-05, 05:29 PM	I want to build a Dragoonish (FF style) Raptoran. So far what I got is 5 levels of fighter and 10 levels of Stormtalon. That gives me a Fly speed of 110 (40 form race and 70 from Stormtalon) so I can make the Dive Attacks easy (times 2 damage from race, plus 3d6 from a feet). Going to use a Halberd for my weapon so I will be doing 1d10 + 3d6 + 9 + 2 X2. So I come out 60 max (180 on a crit)... I can pull this off once a round some what easy if I have the right feats. For feat I was looking at L1: Weapon Focus (Halberd), Run (to get 550 move speed if I need to get out fast) L2: Expeditious Dodge (+2 to AC) L3: Diving Chage (for the 3d6) L4: Weapon Spec (Halberd) L6: Quick Draw L7: Improved Flight L9: Wingover, Power Attack L11: Flyby Attack L12: Cleave L13: Aerial Superiority L15: Great Cleave So I got the my main attack with my killer dive and I can Cleave off it as well. But what to do with the next 5 levels? I was looking into Dervish (I'd need to change some feats around I know but I am thinking about that anyway) for the fact that I can move around alot to make full use of all my attacks but only taking 5 levels of it means I still love my Dive (as it is a Change attack) till the end of combat... So any one got any ideas how to make this better?
Tempest Stormwind 03-16-05, 05:56 PM	I don't yet have Races of the Wild, but I assume you plan on Flyby-attacking? If so, your charges won't work -- you can't move after a charge, last I checked. There could be some feat in Races of the Wild that allows this, but if not, it puts a serious crimp in how I'm reading his tactics. I'll see if I can help once this has been sorted.
Lord Nat 03-16-05, 05:59 PM	I don't yet have Races of the Wild, but I assume you plan on Flyby-attacking? If so, your charges won't work -- you can't move after a charge, last I checked. There could be some feat in Races of the Wild that allows this, but if not, it puts a serious crimp in how I'm reading his tactics. Dive is from the race. You have to move at lest 30 feet and at lest 10 feet of it have to be down. If you hit you do times 2 damage. The race is on the main site just look up Races of Wild.
Tempest Stormwind 03-16-05, 06:11 PM	Dive is from the race. You have to move at lest 30 feet and at lest 10 feet of it have to be down. If you hit you do times 2 damage. The race is on the main site just look up Races of Wild. I read that. However, it's still a Charge, which is the problem with a flyer -- he can't Flyby Attack afterward, and he's no longer in position to repeat the charge (which is one of the key Lancer strengths -- to charge every round, regardless of position, by liberally triggering Battle Jump).
Lord Nat 03-16-05, 06:15 PM	I read that. However, it's still a Charge, which is the problem with a flyer -- he can't Flyby Attack afterward, and he's no longer in position to repeat the charge (which is one of the key Lancer strengths -- to charge every round, regardless of position, by liberally triggering Battle Jump). The dive is an attack in it's self is I am not using Flyby Attack to do it. I have Flyby Attack for when I am getting ready for the next one again. I fly up at an angle and hit it as I go by then Wing Over and drop back down on it.
insatium 03-16-05, 07:34 PM	I can think of one way to make this ridiculous if you are lawful and OA is allowed. Singh Rager 4. Pounce. 'Nuff said in a build like this, I think. The only problem is the required Ki Shout feat, which requires Cha 15. It needs Iron Will as well, but that should help cover a weakness of the build anyway. Upon looking at the build, Aerial Superiority looks like the most easily dropped. That and Weapon Specialization. The extra one damage is not nearly as impressive as the sick damage Pounce pulls off on a build like this one. Fighter 5 is also worthless because of the dead level, Ftr 2/Rgr 3 is better. NOTE: I don't actually HAVE RoW yet, so forgive me if I accidentally made Stormtalon null and void by dropping a feat somewhere. (fairly) Simple Build: Lawful Alignment Raptoran Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Stormtalon 10/Singh Rager 5 (go ranged in Ranger for footbow useage in a pinch, aerial archers are effective) Ftr1: Iron Will 1HD: Run Ftr2: Expeditious Dodge 3HD: Diving Charge 6HD: Improved Flight 9HD: WF: Halberd 12HD: Ki Shout 15HD: Wingover 18HD: Leap Attack Singh Rager also has d12 HD so you can take some punishment. Leap Attack useage depends on whether or not your DM adjucates that Jump can be used airborne, ie one powerful beat of the wings to lift you up and then dive down. This also is borne up mechanically by the Jump description's lack of specification for a type of speed. More Complex Build (uses psionics): http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5690904#post5690904 Scroll up a few posts to Kessalin Talira's post. That one has quite a good Raptoran Lancer build. It may be possible to swap Singh Rager in for some of the Fighter levels, but I doubt it due to the number of necessary feats.
Lord Nat 03-16-05, 08:21 PM	Well the main thing I am looking at right now is to get ok power (if it is to powerful my DM will get tell me no) and a lot of speed with some power on the ground still. I can't go pure air as I know my DM will toss us underground from time to time and having no room to fly will kill me off fast if I keep a pure air build. I am only really looking at the fighter as it gives me the BAB I need for getting Stormtalon at level 5 (only needs BAB +5 to take it and that is it). So any full BaB class will do it for me I just kind find one that will fully do it for me. I was looking at Scout 10/Stormtalon 10 to get that 3d6 AC +2 (Seeing as to dive I need to move more then 10ft anyway it is almost free ^_^) and then I'd still get that on foot to so I'd at lest have some ground power.
Tempest Stormwind 03-16-05, 08:30 PM	I can think of one way to make this ridiculous if you are lawful and OA is allowed. Singh Rager 4. Pounce. 'Nuff said in a build like this, I think. The only problem is the required Ki Shout feat, which requires Cha 15. It needs Iron Will as well, but that should help cover a weakness of the build anyway. Upon looking at the build, Aerial Superiority looks like the most easily dropped. That and Weapon Specialization. The extra one damage is not nearly as impressive as the sick damage Pounce pulls off on a build like this one. Fighter 5 is also worthless because of the dead level, Ftr 2/Rgr 3 is better. The Grand Compilation of Full-Attack Charging PC Tricks (by approximate level of availability) BOOKS NOT INCLUDED: Sandstorm, Races of the Wild, Lost Empires of Faerun 1) Snow Tiger Berserker feat (berserker lodge feat (RP restriction), light weapons only, Unapproachable East) 1) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, human only, single light weapon only, Shining South) 4) Psionic Lion's Charge (2nd level psywar power, augments to add damage to each attack, Expanded Psionic's Handbook) 5) Lion's Charge (3rd level druid / 4th level ranger spell, most recent version Miniatures Handbook) 5) Wild Shape (Fleshraker, Monster Manual III) 6) Lion's Pounce Wild Feat (Complete Divine) 7) Polymorph spell (many forms grant Pounce or similar abilities) 7) Metamorphosis power (as Polymorph, but might require Supernatural Transformation) 8) Wild Shape (Tiger) (If Core-only.) 11) Lion's Pounce (4th level Sigh Rager prestige class ability, Oriental Adventures) 12) Lion's Pounce (5th level Lion of Talisid prestige class ability, Book of Exalted Deeds) 17) Shapechange spell (many forms grant Pounce or an extra move action, or even the Choker.) 17) Greater Metamorphosis power (As Shapechange, but may require Supernatural Transformation) 21) Dire Charge epic feat (Widely accepted as at least slightly underpowered, only works in the first round, but works regardless of your equipment or magic availability. Draconomicon) Variable level: Claws of the Leopard (spiked gauntlets, Complete Adventurer, priced at 38,305. Only works with the claws themselves). Note that the Great Granddaddy of Wild Shape, the Mulhorandi Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a), may be able to pull off some of these far earlier than other characters. With sufficient cheatery twinks, anything is possible. Runner-ups (those with similar abilities that do not exactly count as charging): Full Mounted Attack (Cavalier, CW) Dervish Dance (Dervish, CW) Hustle (Psychic Warrior / Egoist power, XPH) Wild Plains Offensive (Wild Plains Outrider, CV) Shadow Pounce (Teflammar Shadowlord, UE) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, two light weapons only, Shining South) There's more than one way to Pounce without Sigh Rager. :p
insatium 03-17-05, 07:07 PM	That just seemed like the easiest off the top of my head...