Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Insignia) 08-11-05, 06:02 PM	I was thinking multiclass with fighter and/or warlock, in combination with some PrCs, ofc. What's the best you can do with those? I
Funny Slaughter 08-11-05, 06:09 PM	classic is 4 levels of full-BAB and 16 of rogue. take a look at the 3.5 build faq and the rogue handbook to get an overview. gs Funny
Kurama Youko 08-11-05, 06:24 PM	I like Fighters when considering being a rogue, i dont like spell-rogue types usually because there are just to many factors to consider, such a spells being dispelled, or other counter spells negating the abilities your spellcasting is trying to add. Like its no point in being invisible if the person your fighting is blind anyway and uses other sense, or the person has true seeing or see invisibility, what if your just not hitting hard enough because of low bab? Anyway i'll assume you want those kinds of ideas anyway. Rogue 1/Warlock 5/Dagger Spellmage 10/ is a possible start to something. Atleat you'll have a good deal of chances to sneak attack with that 24 hour invisibility, and flight combo. Fighter wise, I like Fighter 2/Rogue 2/Barbarian 1/Invisible Blade 5/Nightsong Enforcer 5/Occult Slayer 5. The 5 lvs of occult slayer are just so that you gain some helpful magical abilities against spellcasters, but for more sneak attack going Night Song Enforcer 10 is probably better. the BAB is the best part of the build because you end up with a 19 BAB. However I play in Faerun mostly, thus I had Faerun Specific Feats that made this build pretty much deadly, Snow Tiger Berserker for a Pouncing, Tireless so that my 3 rages a day had no effect on me afterwards and were pretty much my. (Time to really kick your arse mode.) outside of those, I loved Cloak Dance from the expanded psionic handbook, its not a psionic feat but it gives concealment or total concealment depending on how you use it.
ninjarabbit 08-11-05, 06:40 PM	rogue16/ranger2/fighter2 is simple and effective with 4 bonus feats and a needed boost to hps and fort saves.
cAdventurer 08-11-05, 07:58 PM	This may have a little too much warlock for your taste... Level Class 1 Rogue 2 Warlock 3 Rogue 4 Warlock 5 Rogue 6 Warlock 7 Warlock 8 Nightsong Enforcer 9 Nightsong Enforcer 10 Nightsong Enforcer 11 Exemplar 12 Nightsong Enforcer 13 Nightsong Enforcer 14 Nightsong Enforcer 15 Exemplar 16 Exemplar 17 Warlock 18 Warlock 19 Warlock 20 Warlock
cAdventurer 08-11-05, 08:14 PM	This seems to be a little more balanced for me, feeling I need the Ranger to keep my skill pts up. Level Class 1 Rogue 2 Warlock 3 Rogue 4 Warlock 5 Rogue 6 Ranger 7 Ranger 8 Warlock 9 Warlock 10 Nightsong Enforcer 11 Exemplar 12 Nightsong Enforcer 13 Nightsong Enforcer 14 Nightsong Enforcer 15 Nightsong Enforcer 16 Nightsong Enforcer 17 Exemplar 18 Exemplar 19 Warlock 20 Warlock
Insignia) 08-12-05, 05:45 AM	Thanks for all the replies. Keep 'em coming, I'd like to see all the options before I make a decision. This may have a little too much warlock for your taste... Sure does. ;) The other build is fairly good though. Regards, I
Ithandor 08-12-05, 07:59 AM	The first 3 levels of Swashbuckler are nice for rogues too; free Weapon Finesse, full BAB and Insightful Strike, tasty! Also, if you are evil check out Assassin! Something like Swashbuckler(3)/Fighter(2)/Rogue(15) maybe. You miss out on the Rogue special ability at lv16, but you get some nice combat ability, bonus to weak saves and a few feats to play with. Oh, and more HP. Just a thought Ithandor
cAdventurer 08-12-05, 09:36 AM	The first 3 levels of Swashbuckler are nice for rogues too; free Weapon Finesse, full BAB and Insightful Strike, tasty! Also, if you are evil check out Assassin! Swashbuckler should certainly be considered. I really like it, but have been struggling with the balance between melee vs skill pts. And then my own requirement of getting 4 levels of warlock. I would really like to see the following but seem to be have trouble getting the low level progression worked out. Our new campaign starts soon at 1st level and I would like to get the feats figured out... Human 1st level rogue, probably chaotic neutral. My orig post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=476130) Rogue3/Ranger2/Warlock4/Swashbuckler3/NightSongEnforcer6/Exemplar3 NightSongEnforcer6 gets you Opportuntist Exemplar will be great for the skill monkey
Ithandor 08-12-05, 10:02 AM	Swashbuckler should certainly be considered. I really like it, but have been struggling with the balance between melee vs skill pts. And then my own requirement of getting 4 levels of warlock. I would really like to see the following but seem to be have trouble getting the low level progression worked out. Our new campaign starts soon at 1st level and I would like to get the feats figured out... Human 1st level rogue, probably chaotic neutral. My orig post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=476130) Rogue3/Ranger2/Warlock4/Swashbuckler3/NightSongEnforcer6/Exemplar3 NightSongEnforcer6 gets you Opportuntist Exemplar will be great for the skill monkey I read your original post, and I was just thinking of a few builds. I'm afraid I don't have CA on hand, and I'm not very familiar with the Warlock class. I might be able to help if I knew one or two things. What kind of combat is the character to be involved in? Melee? Ranged? Are you planning on using mobility (ie Spring Attack or Shot on the Run?). And how early do you want Warlock? For the above build, I would go first to Rogue2/Swashbuckler3 anyway. After that, it kinda depends on preference. Also, even with cross class skills that build loses quite a lot of ranks in Disable Devive and Open Lock....6 (or 5.5 to be exact) by my count. Have you considered Assassin? I noted you could be evil. They get some pretty nice spells, and access to Rogue skills IIRC. Ithandor
cAdventurer 08-12-05, 10:38 AM	I was wanting 1 level of warlock at 2nd or 3rd. Choosing the ability that gives darkvision and see invisibility. Warlock2 possibly taking spider climb ability. Warlock4 gives "take 10" on UMD. I'm guessing primarily ranged attacks for this guy. Decided on the quick reconnoiter (spot and listen as a free action, +2 init) for 3rd lvl feat. Thinking, practiced spellcaster at 6th and improved init at 9th. My biggest question is probably Pt Blank and Precise Shot, should those be my first 2 feats. The warlock ray uses touch AC, but this guy would likely struggle in combat otherwise... Hoping the 60ft ray of the warlocks plus SA will be used frequently. I understand it loses some rogue flavor, but I am hoping to not be the trap and lock guy... sounds like there will be another rogue in the party. Assassin and Guild Thief both seem cool, just wasn't sure how many levels and if they are taken at later levels, is it worth it.
Ithandor 08-12-05, 10:58 AM	I was wanting 1 level of warlock at 2nd or 3rd. Choosing the ability that gives darkvision and see invisibility. Warlock2 possibly taking spider climb ability. Warlock4 gives "take 10" on UMD. I'm guessing primarily ranged attacks for this guy. Decided on the quick reconnoiter (spot and listen as a free action, +2 init) for 3rd lvl feat. Hoping the 60ft ray of the warlocks plus SA will be used frequently. I understand it loses some rogue flavor, but I am hoping to not be the trap and lock guy... sounds like there will be another rogue in the party. Assassin and Guild Thief both seem cool, just wasn't sure how many levels and if they are taking at later levels, is it worth it. Ah, I see. Not being the "trap and lock guy" frees you up a lot! I assume Warlock has 1/2 BAB? With you stats, perhaps something like the following: Rogue(5)/Warlock(4)/Assassin(10)/Nightsong Enforcer(1) That gets you: BAB: +13 SA: +9d6 (Death Attack DC:20+Int mod) Some nice spells, incl. Greater Invisibility for SA goodness Being Human and with a decent Int you won't be stuck for skills to choose. That's just an idea though. You could swap out two Rogue levels for pretty much anything, because you can qualify for Assassin with Rogue3/Warlock4 EDIT: A few more things. You can use the Assassin spells to help hit things in combat, eg Wraithstrike (lv2, CV) and Spectral Weapon (lv3,CV). PBS and Precise Shot are useful, ESPECIALLY Precise Shot if you shoot into close combat a lot. Invisibility and Death Attack will give you the jump on most people in combat too. Ithandor
cAdventurer 08-12-05, 11:25 AM	Thanks! Warlock BAB is like the Rogues. The stats are 32pt buy... and I can still change them. I will read the Assassin again.
Saxis 08-12-05, 12:41 PM	I would say BARE minimum with Assassin is 8th level... That nets you at least 1 4th level spell and Hide in Plain Sight. Also, you get no AB at 9th level, but you will miss out on 1 3rd, 2 4th level spells and 2 to your Death Attack DC by not taking it to 10th.
cAdventurer 08-13-05, 03:08 PM	Level Class Feats 1 Rogue PBS, Precise Shot 2 Rogue 3 Warlock Quick Reconnoiter 4 Rogue 5 Warlock 6 Rogue Improved Initiative 7 Warlock 8 Assassin 9 Warlock Skill Focus(Spot) 10 Nightsong Enforcer 11 Exemplar 12 Assassin Practiced Spellcaster(Assassin) 13 Assassin 14 Exemplar 15 Exemplar Spell Penetration, [Exemplar] Combat Casting 16 Assassin 17 Warlock 18 Warlock Greater Spell Penetration 19 Warlock 20 Assassin